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So with all these BUG decks becoming a thing now, how do you guys see the future of Gobs in terms of color/card choices? As much as I'm not a fan of Tarfire, it seems like a solid card for Deathrite Shaman although it does juice up Goyfs with tribal. I'm starting to think of switching from green to black splash or maybe just having them both. Warren weirding seems good again along with maybe cabal therapys in the board for the unfair decks.
Seems OK. I don't want to drop the R/g just yet, though. The metagame is still in flux so I'll probably wait till it settles down before I make any changes.
the metagame has not changed much and it will not change much in the future. BUG and Aggro Loam are the only decks that are now a bit on the rise but these decks can be dealt with our standard tools (Relics,RiP and Kinesis). Shaman is not a good card with Rip resolved. So we don't need black splash.
I found deathrite shamans everywhere in the last tournament I played. I think it's important now, as Brad said, to have some tarfires in our deck, since it's too bad to see our lackey stopped by a shaman. It's ok if they waste a removal on lackey, but i won't see him blocked by a simple 1/2.
Anyway i don't think black splash is necessary.... tarfire should be enough.
but a singleton tarfire wont help if you want to enable the Lackey Trigger. you need at least 2-3. Matroning for tarfire is too slow. perhaps a 3 Gempalm and 2 tarfire split would be ok.
I had a Tournament last day (36 people) and i can confirm, that there are a LOT of Shamans around now... I'm really going forward to make a split with 3 Gempalm and AT LEAST 2 Tarfire!
I also put my sharpshooter in SB and one Chieftain MB because we now need more hastelords to make enough pressure to force the enemy to block!
Sadly the tournament didnt went as well as i hoped. I went 3:3.
Game 1 Esperblade 0:2 (each game he had batterskull and jitte in play...)
Game 2 ANT 2:0 (Thalia is awesome)
Game 3 Goblins RG 2:1 (the classic mirror match - Thalia was great the first round because of her first strike i could handle his hastelords)
Game 4 BUG Tempo 0:2 (fu**** shamans... couldnt get rid of them...)
Game 5 UR Burn 0:2 (i had too much non-basic lands so he finished me twice with price of progress)
Game 6 RUG Tempo 2:0 (Thalia + Wastelands were too much for him)
Conclusion: I really enjoy playing Thalia MB! BUT i wont play Ports again with Thalia. Mana base is too instable. I will play 22 lands with 1 karakas and one mountain more the next time. And a third Thalia main (played only 2 MB and 1 SB)
OR i will but at least 2 Tarfire MB because those shamans are one mana planeswalkers...
I tried the white splash for Thalia, Karakas and RiP and didn't find it convincing. Also tried Naya but it got worse.
Now I got back to Rg-Gobbos and faced the same shaman problem. Thinking of a solution, I didn't find postboard games with pyrokinesis any better. Slightly changing the Mana base and a couple of MD cards and made it Punishing Goblins (3x Grove of the Burnwillows and Punishing Fire). It doesn't feed goyf, it comes back (and therefore trades positive) AND it kills Delver, Shaman and Bob. Playing 23 Lands to make the Manabase more stable. It has improved my MU by A LOT. and usually when you find one P.Fire is enough. So it's no problem to shuffle it down with a Ringleader.
VS Aggro Loam RiP is enough to destroy their whole deck (they don't play counters so mulligan to RiP and cast it and win). You can also add 2-3 Kinesis. Kinesis takes down multiple Shamans and Grims and perhaps a Goyf.
VS BUG Delver Rip is enough. Those who are anxious just play some Kinesis, too.
Those matchups are totally winable and the hate of choice is Rip. I don't understand why the white splash did not work for some.
Tarfire vs BUG and Loam? Oh God no. Those decks play with Goyf and Tarfire makes him bigger.
Punishing Fire in a goblins deck? Give me a break :-)
I've been wanting to do this for quite sometime now. Punishing goblins is a great name. If you ever get to actually play with it, let us know. Will be editing with my old list later.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBopper
BUG Decks are starting to be a big problem for us. Two days ago I went to the invitational tournament of the catalan league (around 100+ people every month) and it was FULL of BUG decks, you could see them in every table and I think there were 3 or 4 in the top8. I lost to 2 or 3, it is a really bad pairing I think. Chaman is a pain, it blocks lackey and survives, even gain life removing our creatures. Tarmos are also a pain, and Delver is just so bad for us. To finish they run tombstalker, which is almost imposible to kill with gempalm unless we have a lot of goblins in play, and it can kill us easily in 2 or 3 turns. Also RIP is not a good card against them since they have 4 abrupt decay MD (and maybe Maesltrom pulse in SB) to deal with it. I think it's time to go back to RB with perish, your opinion?
Rips just need to stay online for 2 turns or so till you win with a fast clock.
I would board vs BUG like this:
BUG Delver:
- 1 Sting- 2 Pile -1 Skirk - 1 Sharp- 1 TSH/Tuktuk+ 4 RiP+2 Kinesis
Perish is not as good as it doesn't get rid of Tombstalker. Tomb can be killed with a Kinesis plus a goblin that gets blocked by tomb.
Another option vs BUG:
BUG Delver:
- 1 Sting- 3 Pile -1 Skirk - 1 Sharp- 1 TSH/Tuktuk + 4 RiP+ 3 Thalia
Then they must take a choice whether they kill thalia or RiP with decay. Both cards are a pain in their ass ;)
While bounced, tombstalker is hard to cast again in several turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
So a stingscourger may "actually" kill a stalker.
Fair enough. So instead of a Sting we need to take out a Ringleader.
Nooo, don't do that. Not against decks you want the CA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
I'd sooner cut Chietain, a SGC, a Gempalm, a MWM, or on the Draw, even a lackey.
Tarfire isn't terrible vs. goyf decks, killing shaman is huge in that matchup (if only cause they no longer have a lackey blocker), and following it up with a wasteland is almost gg, goyf himself is a problem but you simply just power through him at that pointQuote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
Team is a bad matchup? Discard is not good against goblins, and they (like rug) have a really greedy manabase, and unlike rug, their removal is 2CMC.
Discard is very good versus goblins. They can turn a very good hand into a very bad hand just by ripping any mid-late or card advantage out of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
not gonna lie, the only time I've seen discard play a really substantial role is when it's turn 1 thoughtseize turn 2 thoughtseize, deathrite shaman. Depends on the hand, I'd imagine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avatara
Cabal Therapy can run some train on Goblins - between Matrons and Ringleaders there's a bunch of knowns in hand in the midgame. The fact that discard decks can develop their board/game plan for the first 2-3 turns before they have to snipe Ringleader out of hand allows them to be in the drivers seat for the early turns of the game and potentially seal Goblins out of their mid-late game advantage if the player knows how to manage the match. That said, I think discard really only works for that midgame window, if both decks move to topdeck mode and the discard deck hasn't established noteworthy board advantage Goblins has piles of live draws to blow the game open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Mcdonalds
I played a bigger Tounament and went from 4:0 to 4:3 by getting paired against BUG, Storm and dark maverick.
BUG totally crushed me even harder than storm ( wich had the turn 3 and turn 2 kill against my turn 4 and turn 3 kill :( ) killing the mana and decay the vial and habe big critters is nearly unbeatable.
I tested a bit and changed to a 4 Chieftain- 3 Instigator, 3MWM, 1 Pile, 2 Tarfire - Build with 23 lands, 2 ports and 2 Duals and the matchup is alot better now. I dont know if its worth it, but if shaman stays this big, its maybe the right call. Splasing black for weirdings is also good against them.
So we all agree that shaman is a big problem for us... but in my opinion abrupt decay is even worse. This is just a too powerful card for legacy : for 2 mana you can uncounterably destroy almost EVERY permanent played at instant speed. This means that every enchantment/artifact we side in against BUG can be nullified, not to mean the vial.
I hope abrupt decay will be banned because it is really too strong.