[Primer/Deck] Pox

Alright Poxers,

How do we beat Grixis Control?

Strix into K Command into Jace into Snappy-Flashback-K Command get back a Snappy grind forever while Brainstorming the whole time is incredibly difficult to keep up with.

They have a greedy mana base with a few basics, but I no longer play Sinkhole/Wasteland.

Post board I have been bringing in Surgical/Extirpate and 2 Needles. It seems their graveyard is the crippling resource, but dedicated hate like Leyline feels bad. Is it? Cuts off Snappy and Gurmangler, but in no way stops the deck. Jace and Lil' Hope Ultimates still win games on their own.

Is it time to try To the Slaughter? Delirium looks pretty easy to turn on.

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Originally Posted by naynay666

Alright Poxers,

How do we beat Grixis Control?

Strix into K Command into Jace into Snappy-Flashback-K Command get back a Snappy grind forever while Brainstorming the whole time is incredibly difficult to keep up with.

They have a greedy mana base with a few basics, but I no longer play Sinkhole/Wasteland.

Post board I have been bringing in Surgical/Extirpate and 2 Needles. It seems their graveyard is the crippling resource, but dedicated hate like Leyline feels bad. Is it? Cuts off Snappy and Gurmangler, but in no way stops the deck. Jace and Lil' Hope Ultimates still win games on their own.

Is it time to try To the Slaughter? Delirium looks pretty easy to turn on.

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Well, the only reason I'm playing Pox right now is because grixis / miracle control are popular and pox is pretty good vs them.

We don't care at all about Strix, Kcommand is only mildly annoying but rarely 2-for-1s us, all of their other removal is basically useless vs us, so that means we only have to worry about their planeswalkers.

I personally play 4 of both Sinkhole and Wasteland because of how popular control decks are lately. If your meta demands otherwise then maybe just do a split, but I think 4 wastelands is a must in any pox deck.

But ultimately Grixis is a deck where cards like Nether Void and Chains of Meph shine. I think Nether Void is too narrow so don't run it, but I never leave home without at least 2 Chains in my sideboard.

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Originally Posted by Kaono

Well, the only reason I'm playing Pox right now is because grixis / miracle control are popular and pox is pretty good vs them.

We don't care at all about Strix, Kcommand is only mildly annoying but rarely 2-for-1s us, all of their other removal is basically useless vs us, so that means we only have to worry about their planeswalkers.

I personally play 4 of both Sinkhole and Wasteland because of how popular control decks are lately. If your meta demands otherwise then maybe just do a split, but I think 4 wastelands is a must in any pox deck.

But ultimately Grixis is a deck where cards like Nether Void and Chains of Meph shine. I think Nether Void is too narrow so don't run it, but I never leave home without at least 2 Chains in my sideboard.

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I should be a really bad player cause grixis players usually 2-for-1s me. I think this pairing is really difficult

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Originally Posted by Kaono

Well, the only reason I'm playing Pox right now is because grixis / miracle control are popular and pox is pretty good vs them.

We don't care at all about Strix, Kcommand is only mildly annoying but rarely 2-for-1s us, all of their other removal is basically useless vs us, so that means we only have to worry about their planeswalkers.

I personally play 4 of both Sinkhole and Wasteland because of how popular control decks are lately. If your meta demands otherwise then maybe just do a split, but I think 4 wastelands is a must in any pox deck.

But ultimately Grixis is a deck where cards like Nether Void and Chains of Meph shine. I think Nether Void is too narrow so don't run it, but I never leave home without at least 2 Chains in my sideboard.

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KCommand is amazing at protecting Jace from us. It smashes Factories, Scrolls, Totems & Needles. It shocks Walkers, Factories, Totems, Tokens & us. Instant speed Discard is almost always live and when it isn't getting back Snappy or Strix is even more card advantage to keep up with.

In my experience the other removal is Fatal Push and Lightning Bolt. Push can take down a Factory and Bolt is never not relevant.

I have been jamming 20 Swamps, 4 Mishra's and a Maze for a while now and I love it. This has led to taking less mulligans and reliably casting BB cards. I haven't missed WL much beyond being annihilated by 12post. Sinkhole was gone before that and is missed even less.

I currently maindeck Nether Void and Chains, but am yet to draw Nether Void in any recent matchups. My lack of LD (beyond Smallpox) makes Nether Void a little worse but Snap+Ponder costing 9 sounds pretty good.

My list is a page or two back. With 6 planeswalkers I've never had a problem vs Grixis. They give us infinite time to set up our gameplan and their only stack interaction is a 1-for-2. It's just one of those matches where there's no reason to walk into a 2-for-1. Walking a factory into a bolt/push should literally never happen outside of desperation mode.

Snapcaster Kcomm is 5 mana. I think you're missing sinkhole / wasteland more than you realize. Also I can't fathom a list playing maindeck nethervoid that's not playing wasteland. That sounds very wrong.

I tend to die to Gurmag Angler with counter back up. Not hard for control with cantrips to arrange. Leyline of the void is probably necessary for my build. I have needles in main, and chalice in sb.
Otoh Leyline and Engineered Plague would handle all its creatures. Or to put it another way;should focus be to handle the card draw, or the creatures?

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Originally Posted by Kaono

My list is a page or two back. With 6 planeswalkers I've never had a problem vs Grixis. They give us infinite time to set up our gameplan and their only stack interaction is a 1-for-2. It's just one of those matches where there's no reason to walk into a 2-for-1. Walking a factory into a bolt/push should literally never happen outside of desperation mode.

Snapcaster Kcomm is 5 mana. I think you're missing sinkhole / wasteland more than you realize. Also I can't fathom a list playing maindeck nethervoid that's not playing wasteland. That sounds very wrong.

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My list is also on the last page and we have a lot of similarities, including 6 Walkers. My recent games against Grixis Control have all reliably dropped Jace turn 4. The only way I have to answer it outside of Thoughtseize/Hymn is my previously listed KCommandable threats. Thinking about it swapping from a 2/2 TS/IoK split to just a set of Thoughtseize feels like a good place to start. Perhaps going back to 5 cmc 1 discard spells is worth considering.

The MD Nether is for a better position against the combo I run into frequently. The aforementioned nonbo warrants relegating it to the sideboard but I'm not sure I will. I feel land destruction to be more of a stall tactic than anything else.

I am on the other hand a fan of Beseech the Queen. Being able to dig for a sideboard piece looks fun. My lack of Tabernacle keep me from trying it out but I probably will after Eternal Weekend.

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Originally Posted by Hardcore

I tend to die to Gurmag Angler with counter back up. Not hard for control with cantrips to arrange. Leyline of the void is probably necessary for my build. I have needles in main, and chalice in sb.
Otoh Leyline and Engineered Plague would handle all its creatures. Or to put it another way;should focus be to handle the card draw, or the creatures?

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We've all lost that way to Gurmangler.

How many Needles main?

Kill the creatures!

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Originally Posted by naynay666

My list is also on the last page and we have a lot of similarities, including 6 Walkers. My recent games against Grixis Control have all reliably dropped Jace turn 4. The only way I have to answer it outside of Thoughtseize/Hymn is my previously listed KCommandable threats. Thinking about it swapping from a 2/2 TS/IoK split to just a set of Thoughtseize feels like a good place to start. Perhaps going back to 5 cmc 1 discard spells is worth considering.

The MD Nether is for a better position against the combo I run into frequently. The aforementioned nonbo warrants relegating it to the sideboard but I'm not sure I will. I feel land destruction to be more of a stall tactic than anything else.

I am on the other hand a fan of Beseech the Queen. Being able to dig for a sideboard piece looks fun. My lack of Tabernacle keep me from trying it out but I probably will after Eternal Weekend.



We've all lost that way to Gurmangler.

How many Needles main?

Kill the creatures!

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3-4 needles. With all the DnT, Goblins, miracles, 12post, jace etc. I feel four is worth it.

Hey Friends. I've back-burnered Pox for the moment, I was frustrated by the variance of it. This weekend is a charity tournament that I have top 8'd with Pox in the past, and I would like to jam it this weekend despite it not feeling great. I'm trying to put together a B/G list with Living Wish and Loam. Has anyone been working on this type of list? I have something thrown together that I will be trying out tonight at the local, but I'm open to ideas and lists that other folks have tried out. Thanks!

Entomb is getting another reprint in Ultimate Masters, so it will get very affordable. I'm thinking of nabbing a set and trying to see what it can do for Pox. I have the Bayou to make Loam Pox work (which is increcible with Entomb) but even a toolbox of Bloodghast, Nether Spirit, and Raven's Crime can be very good. I've always thought the Jund Loam deck that Kennen Haas plays would be fun as well, but it's spastic as hell. The juicy targets of Punishing Fire, Life from the Loam, and Raven's Crime just seems so fun.

TL;DR - Entomb is a potential card for any version of Pox, and it should be around $7-8 once the dust settles. :smile:

Yeah, that is def on my radar. I have Entombs. My current pile has Chalices to slam on T1 with Mox Diamonds, so I skipped the 1 CMC stuff, but Entomb to find Loam, land bullets, and graveyard win-cons is definitely an option.

Looking to downgrade my Foil JPN Pox cards if anyone is interested. Have lots of stuff not in my main deck. Message me if you are interest, I don't want to take up this thread with inquiries. (But I want to give this devoted bunch first dibs)

My current list. I have used Entomb as a 1-2 of, it is great for grabbing lots of stuff. Loam, Therapy, Bloodghast, Nether Spirit, Raven's Crime, Lands to Loam back, etc. I also really like Crop Rotation since rotate for Bog ups the graveyard hate.

I feel really strongly that this is a great list, you just need to know when to dredge and when to draw.

Maindeck (60)
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Crop Rotation
2 Extirpate
1 Innocent Blood
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Assassin's Trophy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glacial Chasm

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

Looking to downgrade my Foil JPN Pox cards if anyone is interested. Have lots of stuff not in my main deck. Message me if you are interest, I don't want to take up this thread with inquiries. (But I want to give this devoted bunch first dibs)

My current list. I have used Entomb as a 1-2 of, it is great for grabbing lots of stuff. Loam, Therapy, Bloodghast, Nether Spirit, Raven's Crime, Lands to Loam back, etc. I also really like Crop Rotation since rotate for Bog ups the graveyard hate.

I feel really strongly that this is a great list, you just need to know when to dredge and when to draw.

Maindeck (60)
3 Bloodghast
1 Nether Spirit
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Innocent Blood
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Raven's Crime
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Collective Brutality
2 Hymn to Tourach
3 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Barren Moor
4 Bayou
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Pit
1 Forest
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Swamp
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland

Sideboard (15)
2 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Crop Rotation
2 Extirpate
1 Innocent Blood
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Assassin's Trophy
1 Collective Brutality
1 Pithing Needle
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Glacial Chasm

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Pretty cool list, but I can't help but suggest a few small changes: -1 Deed, -1 Bloodghast, +1 Maze of Ith, +1 Darkblast (another spicy entomb target). I also can't help but think that Lili Last Hope is probably a maindeck card for Pox decks, it's really good against the grindy blue control decks of the format, Death and Taxes, and Delver decks. Deed has always been a little bit of an enigma for me in Loam Pox; I almost never have mana to play and activate in time to matter. Toxic Deluge and Last Hope are probably better, IMHO. The one place where Deed shines is against Chalice decks.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

I feel really strongly that this is a great list, you just need to know when to dredge and when to draw.

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I like the looks of that list. I may try it out. I've settled on a list for this weekend:
4 Mox Diamond
4 Smallpox
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Living Wish
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sinkhole
3 Life from the Loam
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Assassin's Trophy
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Sylvan Library
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Wasteland
3 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Bayou
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Thespian's Stage
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Dark Depths
1 Cabal Pit
1 Barren Moor
1 Forest

4 Leyline of the Void
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Liliana, The Last Hope

1 Dark Depths
1 Thespian's Stage
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Karakas

I 2-1'd with at at my local, beating Miracles, Death's Shadow, and losing to Grixis Reanimator. I tested a bit against Miracles, Grixis, D+T, and Sneak and Show. I'm a big fan of the Combo kill and the Loam engines. Losing Thoughtseize and Collective Brutality is a real cost vs combo decks, especially Sneak and Show, but it feels able to grind with all of the midrange and control decks. Wish me luck, and I'll let you know how it goes. Afterwards I'll probably try some spicy Entomb based version just to give it a shot.

you may know this already ntropy, but there was recently a streamer who 5-0d with a list similar to the one you posted. Can find all his stuff here: https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...week_deck_was/

Seems like a sick deck, Loam is a sweet card

Have you tried to integrate Scroll Rack in the Loam Pox? I think it could be a nice option to increase the card quality and generate cardadvantage by dredging in grindy matches.

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Originally Posted by H4rbinger

Have you tried to integrate Scroll Rack in the Loam Pox? I think it could be a nice option to increase the card quality and generate cardadvantage by dredging in grindy matches.

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I have not, I played Sensei's Top while it was legal and it was awesome because we have so much control of the top of our deck.

Part of my philosophy has been the Pernicious Deed is amazing, so I don't play cards that I would lose to my own Deed. That is why I don't play Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library. Same thought would apply to Scroll Rack, but if you are not playing Deed then it could be good.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

I have not, I played Sensei's Top while it was legal and it was awesome because we have so much control of the top of our deck.

Part of my philosophy has been the Pernicious Deed is amazing, so I don't play cards that I would lose to my own Deed. That is why I don't play Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library. Same thought would apply to Scroll Rack, but if you are not playing Deed then it could be good.

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Sad to lose the moxes to deed. Sad to not play moxes with Loam.
Pardon, but isnt ravens crime the best card in this deck?
Scroll rack seems super good.

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Originally Posted by jredelstein

I have not, I played Sensei's Top while it was legal and it was awesome because we have so much control of the top of our deck.

Part of my philosophy has been the Pernicious Deed is amazing, so I don't play cards that I would lose to my own Deed. That is why I don't play Mirri's Guile or Sylvan Library. Same thought would apply to Scroll Rack, but if you are not playing Deed then it could be good.

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I've always had trouble playing Deed in Loam Pox, for the exact reason you state. However, Guile/Library are *hands down* more important for the deck than Deed. Toxic Deluge is a much better answer at three mana. Without Top, Library is literally the 2nd best card to splash green for (after Loam.) Decay, Living Wish, and sideboard cards are also added in but Loam/Library make the deck tick.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I've always had trouble playing Deed in Loam Pox, for the exact reason you state. However, Guile/Library are *hands down* more important for the deck than Deed. Toxic Deluge is a much better answer at three mana. Without Top, Library is literally the 2nd best card to splash green for (after Loam.) Decay, Living Wish, and sideboard cards are also added in but Loam/Library make the deck tick.

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Absolutely. The second Library was my last cut. Deed kills my Moxes and my Chalices. I agree on the power of Raven's Crime, Scroll Rack, Crop Rotation, Entomb, etc. I'm prioritizing Chalice though, so no 1-drops. I actually really liked my 1-1-1 split of Decay, Pulse, Trophy. I cut the 3rd Sinkhole for a second Decay because I expect to see a lot of Chalice on 2 decks.

I had not seen that 5-0, I'll have to check it out.