Congrats on your top8 Solonox! Bummer at your deck reg error. Do you play at VS too?
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Congrats on your top8 Solonox! Bummer at your deck reg error. Do you play at VS too?
I can try 61 cards with Nissa to try it out. I have never played with 61 or Nissa so I will see how it goes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
With the amount of discard we see plus the fact that some of the harder matchups for the deck being reanimator and lands I like running surgical. I think surgical is just better as the ability to hit cards while developing the board is more important than uncounterbility or not letting lands cycle in response.Quote:
Originally Posted by sdematt
I agree with Tom, surgical being essentially free cmc is incredibly better than ss. So often, having it out of nowhere is necessary and the ability to have hate that is free makes getting a clock established that much easier.
@the newcomers: Welcome to Nic Fit. Enjoy your stay.
Thread cheat sheet: Matt is crazy. Bobman is a filthy casual. Rubblekill is a delver player in disguise. I know nothing about the deck and wish we could just continue talking unicorns and rainbows.
What? What?? You sonofa..That's the worst insult ever!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
Echelon is the EDH player [emoji48]
Not sure if this is good or bad. Do tell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
I recommend when you see a list with courser/nissa in it you just replace those cards with legacy cards and you should probably do fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricardio
If you do, be sure to not play NicFit. Cus if you feel that way, this ain't your archetype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
I'll be trying this:
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Sylvan Library
2 Painful Truths
7
3 Path to Exile
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Vindicate/New Instant Vindicate (I'll try to do some actual testing on this and see how often the land vs. instant speed is relevant).
10
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
4 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
14
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
8
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Taiga
22
Cut Intent again, adding the other Sylvan back in. Going back up to 3 Deeds. Cut Qasali. I really want to play a Relentless maindeck, and be able to run the new Sorin. But, the room, we don't have it :/
Boarding:
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction/From the Ashes
SB: 1 Garruk Relentless
SB: 1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Basically, trying the plan of Surgicals going back in. I'm never ecstatic with Surgical, but we'll see. I'd rather run From the Ashes.
Why is playing Nicfit mean playing bad cards? There are plenty of cards that would not see play in many decks outside of this archetype. That doesnt mean any and all cards are good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
@Jain_Mor I've like Souls a lot. It's extra dudes to sack for Therapy/Recurring Nightmare, something to cast in topdeck mode, and blocks a bunch of Delvers, Flickerwisps, and Serra Avengers.
No, that is your interpretation. You are looking for linear or raw power in the cards you play, which is perfectly understandable, but that does not mean that narrow or less obvious cards are garbage. And for you saying the cards are garbage it doesnt mean it is so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Saying that people are running bad cards is equal to saying they are stupid. Are you insulting people on purpose?
What do you guys think about taking one of the g/b Caleb Durward lists and cutting the grave titans and a couple of other cards for 2x gitrog monsters and 2x sylvan safekeepers? I think there's some pretty good synergy there...
I'm looking to get into legacy, and I've become enamored with this deck. I've been doing research on it, and want to start building a pretty standard Junk list (I'm very tempted to build Junk Pod, but I get the feeling that it's not as viable as straight up Junk). However, I'm still fairly unfamiliar w/ the Legacy meta, let alone the meta in my area, and as a result am feeling not particularly confident with my sideboard building. How does this look for a blind meta?
2 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
3 Slaughter Games
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk Relentless
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Glissa, the Traitor
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Choke
It's certainly built w/ combo and Miracles in mind, but I'm not sure if I'm focusing too much on those matchups or not.
Have you ever played Courser? And in what sort of meta? I switched to Coursers about 6 months ago based on posts here at the time and they were right. It's a good card in this deck, it offers a lot of small interactions that add up to a complete package. The body doesn't beat Goyf but it does beat Deathrite Shaman, Shardless Agent, Goblin Guide, Monastery Swiftspear, Venser, and others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Looks fine. I personally favor Tsunami over Choke, since Miracles can weasel their way out of Choke and 3 is a more common CB flip for them these days than 4 is, but there are certainly people in here who disagree with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelOptimist
Thank you for this high honor!Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
I'm so looking forward to the day the first new guy posts his list with a Karador in it!
@Funsucker - try switching your Swords to Plowshares out for Path to Exiles. This deck is slow enough with its kill as it is, there's no need to give your opponent some extra life when you have better options. It's not that anyone plays basic lands or anything (or has any left after the first Veteran Explorer bites the dust).
@the Slaughter Games tech: I so need to get my hands on a Taiga!
B/c this deck actually has the mana to cast those bad cards. Unlike most decks we don't need to suffer from anorexia. We can eat all the juicy steak we want. I'm fine with letting people think some of the cards we play are bad. In the end they choke on them all the same. Or when they finally do realise those cards actually are good, it's too late. How often didn't you have your opponent snicker at Siege Rhino or Meren before it brought them to their knees? The same goes for Karador, mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
Besides, a number of cards that are considered good today used to be considered bad in the past. And if we all were to stick to playing with the same pool of cards simply "because those are the good ones", how are decks/archetypes and the format ever to evolve/grow?
@jaytron
Yea I play at VS every tuesday. I've been on Nic Fit for the past 5-6 Legacy events and have been tuning it.
Here is the thing, Siege rhino, while being above the curve that most legacy decks play is still a playable card due to power level. I just feel that courser is not at that power level.
For example, some people play 7 drops (in DLD) but if I said that I think Verdant Force should be played most (if not all) of you would say that card is not good enough to play. I am not calling anybody out for being an idiot. I am just giving my opinion that certain cards just to do not improve the deck.
The deck already struggles with consistency by not running cantrips to smooth draws and also by running a high variance of impact cards (Vets 2-4 for example lose a lot of value), High end bombs in opening hands, etc. I do not believe using a gsz on it would ever be worth it and I do not believe it is a card I would ever want to draw. Therefore, as an already low powered card in a deck that tries to win by stringing cards together for a pay off card it does not fit.
This has been my opinion of Courser, as well. The card's nice to have in play, but you never want to Zenith it, which suggests that it doesn't belong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom4ik
That being said, I think that it's very important to remember that different people play the deck differently, and various cards and gain or lose value depending on individual playstyle.
Nissa is great for me, because she works well with how I tend to play the deck: heavy on recursion. Nissa isn't great for some people because they aren't playing with Sun Titan and Meren and Nightmare. I am. Nissa comes down for me, grabs a land, chumps a goyf, and then comes back and evolves into a planeswalker later. I can sing Nissa's praises until I'm blue in the face, but that doesn't change the fact that unless other people are playing with the same card choices, executed in the same order of priority and style, nobody else can accurately evaluate Nissa in the way that I can, from the background that I can.
While I am personally of the opinion that you don't want Courser unless you're doing something with Archangel of Thune, that doesn't change the fact that for some people in this thread, Courser is exactly what they're looking for. He fills a role that they play around, that works for exactly them in such a perfect way that you or I could never emulate it.
And that's beautiful.
This is why I avoid all of these conversations about playable / not playable. I firmly believe that for every player, there exists a set of cards that that individual player will find playable. This won't always overlap with what I deem playable, but it shouldn't have to. There isn't some kind of "#makenicfitgreatagain" bullshit going on here. The deck's core is strong enough that it can allow people to play the game competitively in their own way, and I think that is better than having an ostensibly "tuned list," because let me tell you, I can pick up a tuned Delver list that someone hands me, and I'll play it like a goddamn monkey, because that's not how I process the game. I'm not an aggro player. I'm not a combo player. I'm a midrange/control player. Beyond that, I highly favor playstyles that allow me to trade resources with my opponent, and then break the symmetry the game. Breaking symmetry is what I like to do, it's what I play to, it's what I build to. Veteran Explorer here. Notion Thief in vintage. Recurring Nightmare and Yawgmoth's Will are two of my favorite cards. I adore Gifts Ungiven -- the symmetry break there is information based. Green Sun's Zenith operates in a similar fashion.
That's how I play. I break some symmetry early. I grind my opponents out of resources, and then I Nightmare shit back and make them deal with it again and again until I'm taking the match slip up.
Does that work for everyone? No. There's a portion of people in the thread that think that Nightmare isn't even playable anymore, that Meren is strictly better. I disagree, but I'm never going to be able to change their minds because it's not their playstyle to do so. For them, Meren IS better. They don't place a priority in games on Nightmare like I do, and that's fine. I don't go stumping on crusades, knocking on peoples' doors: "Have you heard the Blessed Word of the Eternal Nightmare?" I'll say again: this is why I put a quote from Nietzsche in the primer. I'm all for erudite discourse, but let's avoid sweeping accusations like "not playable." If someone is playing Courser and they're doing well with it, hey, more power to them. I'll stay away from the card personally, but I'm not going to condemn anyone for their choices. At the end of the day, it's their entry fee, gas mileage, and time out of their life. We all make our own choices.