He decreased the number of spells maindeck to fit in 2 cliques, and the third comes in when we need to increase the density of cheap spells after sideboarding and for matches that go long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
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He decreased the number of spells maindeck to fit in 2 cliques, and the third comes in when we need to increase the density of cheap spells after sideboarding and for matches that go long.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
I like veeery much Lossett's list.
He charges so much on blue threaths that opponent's Blasts become not very relevant: something will stick.
Also, the abundance of Karakas + Cavern and no WW in the whole 75 is so solid.
Joe, if you read me what do you think about Teferi's Response in your list?
It's probable that next GP's top 8 will have like 20 Wastelands
Took an almost stock miracles list to 12th yesterday at SCG Dallas, and wrote a report. It can be found here, if anyone's interested!
I know this is only one example for the most recent scg open. But Joe Bass placed 13th and he ran 1 Ponder and 3 Counterbalance. Gives a little weight to my thoughts listed above.Quote:
Originally Posted by Son Alexander
Got 2nd in a 40 player legacy side event of GP Porto Alegre with:
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
4 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
1 Spell Pierce
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat the Angels
4 Ponder
3 Terminus
1 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
4 Island
1 Mystic Gate
2 Plains
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Windswept Heath
SB: 1 Blood Moon
SB: 1 Disenchant
SB: 2 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Izzet Staticaster
SB: 2 Meddling Mage
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 1 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
Matches:
2-1 Infect
1-1 (draw) RUG Delver
2-1 Snake and show
2-0 Lands
0-2 Goblin Stompy
2-1 Omnitell (UR)
top 8: 2-1 Reanimate
semi: all top 4 split prizes. Guy concedes.
finals: 0-2 RUG Delver (played relaxed and did a crucial missplay. Still improving this matchup :~~).
- Very solid deck. Couldn't use the single entreat :/
- Next time i'll use wear // tear instead of disenchant.
Props: 1) cavern of souls naming Human (preboard) or wizard / human (post board). One guy using Fow against monastery mentor :)
2) 2 meddling mages / 2 cliques / 2 fluster
Prepping for Seattle, interested in how many sideboard slots people are using for each matchup? For example: I have three flusterstorm and two RIP vs Storm for a total of five. Also, anything spicy? I've see a few lists running From the Ashes... Thoughts?
I've thought about this a lot myself, although at the time I was thinking of it, it was Ruination (From the Ashes is iteratively better, but comparable). In the end, I always came back to Blood Moon just being better. (1) cheaper (2) locks player out instead of asking them to rebuild (and with such a clock we have!).Quote:
Originally Posted by prepare4robots
The only real plus I can think of is being Snapable after being countered/Thoughtseized/Hymned.
So, my list this past weekend was on From the Ashes, and I've run it in locals for some weeks now. I posted on reddit my thoughts, I'll copy them over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by prepare4robots
So I've tested Blood Moon, Back to Basics, Ruination, and From the Ashes. Blood Moon I wasn't a fan of because you turn off your own fetches. Back to Basics is strong, but a touch slow and clunky sometimes. So, with those two down, I wanted one of the 4-drop commander cards.
Ruination is strong, don't get me wrong. You can, (and should,) set things up in a way that you only destroy your volcanic island when it goes off. But, it does still destroy that Volc. On the flipside, From the Ashes does the same, but replaces itself. So if you have a hand set up in a way that you need to fetch duals, you don't feel bad casting From the Ashes, where you might hold off on Ruination.
The decks you're casting either won't have many basics anyway. You aren't bringing it in on triple-basic Stoneblade, or any miracles list, or D&T. You want it versus decks that, that single basic won't really matter. Lands, Shardless, Infect (sometimes too slow,) stuff like that.
You can also make it essentially "free" by using 4 duals to cast it, which will replace themselves untapped. This is big game against a lot of decks, as casting Ashes and Jace in one turn is tough for many decks to deal with.
The flip side is, 4 mana is a lot against decks you'll be bringing it in against, especially when some run Ports and others run FoW. Granted, Blood Moon will eat a FoW anyway, but at least you can cast it on Turn 3 rather than 4.
What matchups do you board Blood Moon in, against? Death and Taxes as well?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
He's probably talking about Lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
"Some" might refer to more than one matchup, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
Have had many opponents bring in Moons against me as a Grixis Delver player. Saw it a lot more when I was playing Grixis Control (Paul Lynch's list from SCG Worcester), but I got locked out by a Painter player once and I stranded it in a Miracles player's hand another time when playing Delver.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
I could see bringing Moons in against any 3-color Delver list, as there's not a lot of room in those decks for a robust basic land mana base. This is probably why he mentions Force of Will.
Yeah, I think that's accurate, I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Delvis
I'm just wondering what Rishidan Port matchups he wants it is - I'd only want it against Lands, personally...
Regarding delver: The only Delver deck I think it's good against is BUG Delver. RUG is faster, Grixis has Pyromancers and UWR is close to unplayable these days.
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
There aren't any other Port matchups than Lands that you'll want Moon for. If you bring it in vs DnT, well, I guess you just want to lose.
Yea I was talking mainly Lands variants. Decks also play Loam, so I'd rather turn off their lands entirely vs letting them Loam them back if we can't follow up the spell with pressure.
Turning 4 duals into 4 basics to follow up land destruction with a Jace is also very Christmaslandy because that requires fetching non basics in the early gamed which are just begging to get Wastelanded.
Have you actually read From the Ashes...?Quote:
Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual
Destroy all nonbasic lands. For each land destroyed this way, its controller may search his or her library for a basic land card and put it onto the battlefield. Then each player who searched his or her library this way shuffles it.
Yes. That means to play magical Christmas Land, you need to have 4 duals out on turn 4, cast it, and follow up with Jace. This exposes our lands turns 1-3 to Wasteland. I know you're not this stupid, come on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Here's the post I was referencing if you're too lazy to follow the conversation yourself:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intricate08
"Waaa was he's right but let's not acknowledge it waaa waaa!"
I'll take this time to also mention, against Lands and Loam variants, those decks run off of Mox Diamonds so blowing up their lands doesn't do much in the way of completely fucking them.
EDIT: and I'm assuming this card would be brought in against Maverick/KotR variants too, yes? Good luck casting this with a Teeg on the field.
Is the Legacy GP really not streaming?
I thought it was 10:30 PST? You're about an hour early.
Here was my list for the Seattle:
2 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Monastery Mentor
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
2 Counterspell
1 Spell Pierce
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Council's Judgment
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Arid Mesa
SB:
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Peacekeeper
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Containment Priest
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Blood Moon
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Wear // Tear
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Round 1 - Maverick 1-2
Round 2 - Burn 2-1
Round 3 - Infect 2-1
Round 4 - UB Omni tell 2-1
Round 5 - UB Tezzeret 2-1
Round 6 - Shardless BUG 0-2
Round 7 - Elves 2-0
Round 8 - Merfolk 2-1
Round 9: Miracles 2-0
Round 10: Death and Taxes 0-0-1 (I know....)
Round 11: Infect 0-2
Round 12: 4 Color Delver 2-1
Round 13: Stoneblade 2-1
Round 14: Stoneblade 0-2
Round 15: Elves 2-1
Finished 10-4-1 and just barely cashed. Some notes:
I've always struggled with my Shardless MU. The Shardless player I lost to was a strong pilot and my game 2 was just embarrassing in terms of draws. It was kind of disappointing that I prepared so much for this MU, faced it once and lost. But I just got out valued. He had 3 Shardless Agents one game and 2 resolved Ancestral Visions another.
Infect was the MU I prepared for 2nd most, so I'm glad I at least went 1-1 against it. I lost to Seth Mansfield. Game 1 always feels super uphill, but I was really excited to go to SBs. I kept Ponder, Ponder, Swords, Snapcaster, Island, Island, Brainstorm. By the end of the game, I had 4 Ponders and I think 2 Brainstorms in my graveyard, and I still never found that 3rd land... That's just Magic sometimes.
The most exciting card for me all weekend was Gideon. Whenever he came in, my opponent was surprised to see him. He provides an absurd clock and is hard to kill. I won in turn 5 of turns with Gideon against a Stoneblade opponent who found out, to his dismay, Gideon isn't legendary when animated and therefore cannot be Karakased. Who knows why the hell not... But I'm not mad about it.
1 of Philips list in Top8 and two more in Top32. When will you guys stop playing shit decks already?
Phillip, you're a great player, but do you see this toxic you created?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bragi
Bragi, why do you think Miracles is shit even if it has the finishes you stated yourself?
No Cliques in the maindeck, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp2293
Bragi != PhilipQuote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I think he knows!
The Miracle player was unlucky vs Lands. Against Grixis it would have been a probable and probably easy win.
This GP would have been the consacration of Pyroclasm.
Every creature in every decklist would have died to it. Only Tarmogoyf and Angler would have stick..
I assumed Bragi was trying to slam everyone that doesn't play Phillip's 75. My mistake.
Seems as if Bragi dislikes Philipp's listQuote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
This GP had quite a few SnS lists, a higher amount of Reanimator than most legacy events, as well as Omni-Eureka builds, and Terminus is still better here than Pyroclasm.
From my phone. I do my best, dammit!
I ended up 31st place at GP Seatac with a 12-3 record. I basically played Phillip's updated miracles MD list since I've been playing a 4-ponder variant since I picked up the deck and liked the changes he proposed (unsurprisingly MD mentors are great with 4 ponders). I was never a fan of 2 counterspells in the deck though so I decided to try out venser+karakas in place of a counterspell and arid mesa to improve the preboard game against shardless and hedge against reanimator and sneak and show. It performed reasonably and I liked the utility he offered but I'm not sure if I like it more than just another pyroblast or terminus (which I missed the 4th one a lot in a few games).
Decklist below:
Planeswalker
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Creature
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
Sorcery
4 Ponder
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Council's Judgment
3 Terminus
Instant
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
Artifact
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment
4 Counterbalance
Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
Sideboard
2 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Meddling Mage
2 Flusterstorm
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast
1 Blood Moon
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Disenchant
1 Rest in Peace
1 Wear // Tear
I started the tournament off at 2-2 after coming off one bye since I played terribly my first couple of games - I hadn't played much legacy since the dig ban so it took a few games to warm up. My match ups were:
Day 1
R1: Bye
R2: Reanimator
R3: Death and Taxes (Lost)
R4: Sneak and Show (Lost)
R5: RUG Delver
R6: ANT
R7: Burn
R8: Miracles
R9: Death and Taxes
Day 2
R10: TES
R11: Death and Taxes (Lost)
R12: Imperial Painter
R13: Miracles
R14: BUG Delver
R15: Reanimator
If I could go back in time, I think I want the 4th terminus in there somewhere. I missed it in a lot of the games. As far as the sideboard, I would definitely put in 1-2 izzet staticasters. I took it out originally because I had it in for grixis control and omnitell which were now both gone, but I underestimated how annoying vryn wingmare was - which contributed to 2 of my losses versus death and taxes. I'm also normally not a fan of blood moon in the sideboard but I decided to put one in because of Shardless BUG, and although I didn't play against shardless, it did win me a game against both my delver matches.
Congratulations on your result. Well done! Especially after such a rocky start. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticalstal
Your feedback is in line with pretty much any other I've received (2nd Counterspell and the nonexistence of the 4th Terminus) so I'll try to see what the best lesson to draw from this is.
Greetings
After watching DeMars get wrecked in 90 seconds, I'm curious how that list goes about approaching the Lands matchup. I board out Counterbalance and Counterspell for sideboard creatures/RIP. Those lists don't have that high of a threat density, so are people just grinding through quad-Krosan Grip?
Surgical Extraction/RiP/Blood Moon/Meddling Mage.
Do not side out Counterbalance against RG Lands. It is your best card against them, despite the fact that they bring in 3-4 copies of Krosan Grip. You want to side out some of your removal against them. Yes, you need to be able to handle a Marit Lage token, but you don't need 7-8 ways (more if you include Snapcaster). Generally, I cut all of my Terminus first against them. Jace is also suspect, as resolving a 4 CMC at sorcery speed is challenging, and it is weak against Punishing Fire.
I board in Wear // Tear, Blood Moon, Rest in Peace, Surgical Extraction, and some number of Vendilion Clique.Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
The Wear // Tear is for their Exploration, Manabond, and other problem permanents they bring in like Sphere of Resistance and Choke. The Rest in Peace and Surgical Extraction are obviously to stop their Life from the Loam combo. Vendilion Clique is another way to stop their combo by bottoming their Life from the Loam but also applying the needed pressure to kill them. Blood Moon is because its lands and some times you can just get 'em.
Like presquepartout said Counterbalance is awesome against them. If you can stick a Counterbalance with two on top they are usually locked out unless they can find a Krosan grip. I usually board out my Terminus, a Swords to Plowshares or two, and a Jace, the Mind Sculptor.
He had just bad luck. But he misplayed g2. He pondered and saw a Terminus but fetched it away.. He had a mana open and brainstorm in hand.. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
When playing vs. Lands just bring in the V. Clique/ Rest in Peace /Surgical and try to get Counterbalance online asap floating a 2. EtA is also key here to finish..
I think others will agree with me when I say that Terminus is the reason why we win so many games, so to not play 4 of them is only hurting our chances. Mentor goes wide and provides blocks, but blockers only do so much, especially when you need to Terminus a flyer or TNN or DRS or Eidolon of the Great Revel (aka creatures that can damage us without attacking).Quote:
Originally Posted by Einherjer