Yeah, those IoK were meant to be Duress. I just typed my discard package from Deathblade, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telkku
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Yeah, those IoK were meant to be Duress. I just typed my discard package from Deathblade, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Telkku
Been testing a bit with 4 Confidants and love them. I dont understand when people say that our curve is too high which makes bob unreliable. We have 4 knights at CMC3 and thats it, the lifeloss from bob is insignificant and the card advantage is awesome. Bought a playset for 200$, id say thats pretty good
I also prefer Thalias over discard, they slow down most decks by a fair bit and obv sick against storm. They also do damage and can carry jitte
Quote:
Originally Posted by litenkatt
One thing adding BoB does to the deck is that (as ive mentioned in the previous posts) you have to just make the curve as smooth as possible. Which is not a bad thing at all. And yes, lifeloss doesnt feel at all, many times ive had 3 x BoB in and no worries cause highest cmc is 3 and theres jitte, shammy, stop.
I think Thalia vs Teeg + Discard is a metagame call. And depending if you play Decay with Stop too or does it make a difference to you to pay 1 more. And for me with Cradle it doesnt.
I'm testing Telkku's MD list right now on Cockatrice, except I replaced 1 MD Wasteland with a Karakas. Bob seems really good and the curve is low.
As far as 4 MD DRS are concerned: Yes, they're good, but I also like a split with other mana dorks since DRS can't always get mana early. You can't cannibalize your GY off lands like other decks packing DRS since you don't want to make your KotR a complete wimp. Different strokes for different people, I guess.
I like how people are starting to play bob with mom. This is the list I have been playing for a few months now and has been good in testing. I switch between the souls and thalia main all the time but I think thalia main is the right choice. Just to have a shot against storm/combo you need her and is still good against fair decks.
Counts : 61 main / 15 sideboard
Creatures:23
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
Spells:15
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Lands:23 2 Bayou
1 Forest 1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Sideboard:15
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Bitter blossom
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Choke
1 Engineered Plague
4 Lingering Souls
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Humility
Is it just me or is Painter Servant a terrible match-up? Grabbing mana dorks/basics can only get you that far and if they go T1 Moon on the play, you're pretty boned right from the start. And their clock can be pretty fast at times, although we have removal for that.
On a different note:
What's your current tech against opposing Punishing Fires? Decks packing those tend to destroy us and RiP isn't the best solution since it hurts us, too. Sunyveil runs Absolute Law as SB tech now, but its performance is yet to be seen. Obscure sideboard cards I've looked up:
Mark of Asylum (worse than Absolute Law, but a combo with Ulvenwald Tracker)
Energy Storm (also stops Delvers, but cumulative upkeep hurts)
Inner Sanctum (probably too expensive to keep it around for a while)
Or just run a bunch of Surgicals and hope you get lucky with drawing one?
Best answers vs PF is probably more Oozes MD, and Surgical on sb (you need to play it right in respond to Grove Trigger). Surgicals are also good cards vs combo like Past in Flames/Reanimator/All Spells etc
About Imperial Painter MU it's tricky MU, very depends who is on play and Painter hand.
Let's take some scenerios to look closer on this MU:
Preside:
1) Painter on play with possible turn 1 Moon Effect
Answer - only 1 - have basics or answer vs Moon, PF Versions helps here since you can answer vs Magus of the Moon
2) Painter on draw with possible turn 1 Moon Effect/Bolt your dork
Answer - keep hand with fetchland which can find you answer, proper choose is Forest since it can help you grab manadorks (Shaman's aren't best here, first Manadork which you should grab is BoP/Hierarch) you can also grab from GSZ Qasali Pridemage.
Keep in mind that they also can go combo route with Painter - REB/Pyro your basic which means you have trouble.
MVP cards which brings your vicotory - Knight of the Reliquary with 2 lands in gy, Qasali Pridemage vs Blood Moon and all other stuff, Stoneforge Mystic for Jitte, all removal.
3) How to deal with resolved Painter - wait for REB/Pyro and try to answer with removal (Active Qasali will be best since he can't counter it), don't forget that they running Smian Spirit Guide which can lead to some unexpected REB/Pyro in response.
Post side:
For sure Red Splash is favorable - having own blasts helps a lot and bring answers to all
- Rebs
- Ancient Grudge
SB Cards which aren't completely junk vs other MU - Emrakul, the Aeons Torn - yes just run 1 of them on sb it helps a little in S&T MU, but its shuffle trigger is best answer vs Painter - Grindstone combo.
Black splash can bring more discard - Thoughtsieze/ IoK which stops turn 1/2 Blood Moon.
Even a Oblivion Rings so you can answer Moon Effect.
Which cards aren't great vs them so what you can take out:
- all Plainswalkers - they're too costy mostly
- Gaddock Teeg - blanc mostly - can only answer Koth, but also lock your GSZ
- Loam if you running it MD with so many Moon Effects it will be rather usless
- Scavening Ooze - works only vs Goblin Welder so does removal
- Maze of Ith
After SB look out for more burn on your creatures - specially your manadorks.
If you running black splash and they don't play Turn 1 Moon, keep open mana for Decay's they can't answer them, and it is your best answer vs Moon effects and Combo.
I played a lot of games vs Imperial Painter since my buddy from my playgroup is Painter lover ;P.
Had a great weekend with Maverick at SCG Cinci. Went 4-0 in the legacy challenge on saturday beating ANT, 4C Loam, BG Pox and Lands which covered my entry for sundays open. Started of 3-0 beating Shardless, Lands(same guy from the night before) and elves. RD 4 I played my good friend piloting 12 post and lost in 3 really close games. After that I rattled off wins against Dredge, Sneak and Show, and Shardless. Then I made my only haunting mistake of the day when after having 3 very grindy games against 4C loam I scooped following a Massacre that left me with only a boguka bog on the field. Scooping was the mistake bc his 3/3 Knight of the Reliquary wasnt going to kill me as time was just called in the round and my life was more than sufficient to withstand 2 attack phases and could have went to the 9th and final round at X-1-1 and had a chance to compete for the top 8 slot that he eventually took...on a positive note though I was able to draw with my 9th round opponent and secure myself 25th and cash prize. Ive been playing maverick since a few months before GP Atlanta and havent thought twice about giving it up. I fully believe the deck has plenty of tools at its desposal to compete week in and week out. The list I ran for reference:
Dirty Maverick
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Noble Hierarch
3 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Sylvan Library
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Plains
3 Savannah
3 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
SB:
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Wilt-Leaf Liege
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Armageddon
1 Path to Exile
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Life from the Loam
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1. How did Thrun work out for you?Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
2. "" Swords of X&Y ""?
3. "" Ulvenwald Tracker in the board ""?
4. Was the Wilt-Leaf in the board for the sole purpose of getting discarded against BUG style decks? I've considered him and Loxodon Smiter in a GWB Maverick list to combat those decks with Hymn to Tourach.
5. 3 Mystics with 2 Swords/1 Jitte main, no Batterskull in the board for hyper aggro decks? I feel like Batterskull is great in races, and helps a lot against Storm (on the EtW plan). I feel like I would want to find a spot in the board for the single BS.
1. Thrun was my allstar MVP of the weekend. Starting the week leading up he wasn't in my 76. By thursday he was the main attraction. We discussed him alot through the week and we kept coming back to the same question: How can any of the main creature decks deal with him? The only real answer was with lilliana but with access to 25 other creatures it would be really hard for him to leave the board. One of the guys I went with wasn't on board with Thrun but switched after the saturday challenge, once he watched an equipt thrun swing through double maze of ith.Quote:
Originally Posted by oSeabass
2./5. Batterskull started the week in my list. But made its way to the board after the addition of Thrun, as a new gameplan was adapted to "build a titan" Sure alot of decks are running aprupt decay but we felt that adding a second sword option for thrun, and really any creature for that matter, would help push a quick clock with added affects to compliment the disruption we were bringing. Eventually Batterskull was replaced in the board for Ethersworn as saturdays field was filled with Storm/combo based decks. That point held true for Sunday as well.
I've always gone with Light and Shadow based off of personal preference. Reaccuring dudes and having protections from germ token and STP has always been at the top of my list. Fire and Ice was purely an attrition pick. Add 2 damage and have a card, plus swing through Baleful Strix and have protection from Patriot(haven't played against it yet but the deck frightens me).
3. Tracker is a bit of a "pet idea" card. I like the thought of repeatable removal. I know he has his draw backs, but he carries alot of upside as well being able to tutor for him, works well with creatures wearing swords and obviosly mothers protection. I'm sure not everyone is going to get behind that but I like to have options.
4. If Thruns taken home the MVP honors then Wilt-Leaf definitely gets the 6th man award(I like basketball)! Obviously the main idea behind him was the discard affect. Awhile ago I had settled on Loxodon Smiter because he felt more efficient being cheaper and having the "cant be countered" ability, and I didnt see a need to pump my other creatures. The change happened when someone asked me what my game plan for golgari charm out of Shardless was. Its the "it" deck at the opens atm and I came prepared for it with the Wilt Leafs, as in my second matchup of the day against it I finished with both on board(the second was to really rub it in) and my opponent conceded showing me his hand, with golgari charm. Also against Shardless the only removal they really rely on is Abrupt Decay, which cant hit the Liege.
Hope that answers your questions!
It did. I have been playing around with "Dark Maverick" for a while, because traditional GW was my first real Legacy deck and I kinda fell in love with it. I like the Thrun a lot, since he is tough to deal with from the fair decks in the format.Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
Normally my sideboard (in traditional GW) was a more Enlightened Tutor package running cards like Sylvan Library, Choke, E. Canonist, Worship, etc. I figured I could just add another toolbox to the Legacy toolbox deck, allowing me to tutor up silver bullets post board for Creatures (GSZ), Lands (KOTR), Artifacts/Enchantments (E. Tutor). That being said I like the inclusion of black for Thoughtseize/Cabal Therapy to fight combo. 4 Thalia and 2 GT are normally enough to slow the combo down, but they still can just kill you turn 2 on the play against your 2 drops. That point I like the idea of the turn 1 Black discard spell, especially when you have creatures to flashback Therapy with.
I see the need for W.Leaf being the 4 CMC to get past Abrupt Decay, and the buff helping negate a bit of mass removal like Massacre or Golgari Charm (-2/2, -1/1 respectively).
Maverick has always been my go to when I wanna audible to a familiar deck. If I wasn't jamming storm for practice to prepare for GP DC, I'd probably jump back into the GWb Maverick lists. I think adding Black for discard and DRS > adding Red for Punishing Fire. I think we are already ok enough against creature decks, but we really need the black to fix gaps in combo (from lack of hard counters). I could see running some numbers of (U) counters in board for combo, which we can cast off Noble H. and/or DRS.
Abrupt Decay sure has it advantages, but after facing 3x DRS on the opposing side yesterday, I'm asking myself: Has anybody with the black splash tested Maelstrom Pulse yet as a sideboard card?
Echoing Decay? I suppose that having ways to kill equipment, Jaces, Moats, etc is also useful however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
The non-counterable part seems more relevant against Delver and Goyf in matchups like RUG. The only real big problem card Decay doesnt deal with is Jace I think, but an active Mom should handle that just fine. I thought about running EE for a while since with a Noble H./DRS you can have access to all 5 colors for the Sunburst. EE might be tricky to cast, but I think having it on 4 to beat a Jace seems decent. Just a thought to go with my Enlightened Tutor sideboard package.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
The other problem with Pulse, is it hits your own DRS. If they have 2 DRS and you have 1, Pulse seems meh. In that situation I would rather use like a Linvala out of the board to just shut down their DRS and have a nice (non abrupt decayable) evasive body.
I did actually, and it did ok. I was running it as a 1-of in the sideboard. However, I took it out because 90% of the time, I never really used it to multi kill anything, so in the end, o-ring and decay were already doing the job I needed. The upside tho is that you can kill tokens too, but I already have zealous persecution for that. On another note, weren't you running both black and red? What do you think of fire covenant?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
also quick edit : Anyone played against stoneblade with red? I feel like everytime I play against it, it's always the same: I get destroyed by 1 million removal spells comming at me non stop (bolts, stp, snap, izzet charms (yes, even that), add lavamancer and sulfur elemental postboard for maximum rage effect), and then jace shows up and game over, to the point where I don't really know what my game plan is, at that point. Any advice is welcome, I am on verge of nervous breakdown.
The double splash has already an atrocious manabase, which isn't the best plan with the potential rise of Blood Moon effects. I'll keep on working on it on the sidelines, but for now, I'm sticking the more established Dark Maverick build as far as Legacy Daily Events are concerned.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
I've considered Fire Convenant, but since it's two off-color mana, it might be very problematic to cast.
conley1000000 talking abot toolboxes got me thinking, though I mentioned it before, but I still think it's worth talking about:
Worldly Tutor board vs. E-Tutor
Both can grab Canonist and Revoker.
E-Tutor can grab O-Ring (which is huge), Crypt, and equipment.
W-Tutor can grab Thalia, Teeg or whatever creature you desire and opens up unexplored sideboard options (Opponent wants to uptick Liliana next turn? Better grab a Wilt-Leaf Liege. Linvala, Keeper of Silence would also become more accessible, as would Master of the Wild Hunt when you only need 1+4 instead of 5 mana to get him going.). Question is whether or not it's worth the trade-off of losing tutorable O-Rings. But considering W-Tutor can grab a KotR which can screw with S&T Emrakuls just as hard and Pridemage can solve Omniscience, it might be not that bad.
Back in the GW days, I ran a one of Fauna Shaman as a better Worldly Tutor effect on a stick, that can carry swords, is tutorable itself with GSZ, and can find Thalia when you need her.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
I personally enjoyed my ETutor sideboard, as MOST of the hate cards these days are artifact/enchantments. The only thing is that by adding Black you can make your combo match up even better with discard spells in the board (C. Therapy and Thoughtseize). So if I was building a GWb Sideboard now with the ETutor package it would look something like this:
E Tutor Package (10)---------------
2 Enlightened Tutor. Allows virtual copies of all your hate, and lets you run some cool silver bullet sideboard tech if you are feeling adventurous.
2 Ethersworn Canonist. Storm/elf combo hoser, the 2/2 is relevant a lot too with a few Exalted triggers.
1 Batterskull. I like having access to this with the SF Mystics, as well as ET. Cradle lets us cast this more times then we should be able to. I like the ability to race other creature decks, Jitte and BSkull help a lot.
1 Tormod's Crypt. Against RUG, Dredge, Reanimator, etc. You want more graveyard hate, Bojuka Bog isn't enough since it is only tutorable on turn 3 with a sped up KotR on 2. Good in a lot of matchups, so I don't mind the extra targeted graveyard hate that works well with ET.
1 Sylvan Library. I go between this in the main/board. I like it in the board for now.
1 Worship. With a lot of resilient creatures late game due to swords and Mom, it makes it really tough for slow decks to grind through a Worship. Seems REAL good with a Thrun against any creature based strategy.
1 Oblivion Ring. Show and Tell variants. Standard stuff.
1 Choke. Good against High Tide, blue decks, Islands, etc.
Other (5)---------------
2 Cabal Therapy/T.Seize. Combo
1 Bojuka Bog. Instant speed graveyard hate.
1 Thalia. The 4th copy
1 Life from the Loam. Wasteland grindfest Legacy.dec. This comes in with the Sylvan Library to dig. You have so many shuffle effects with KotR, GSZ, SFM, that you can find this.
I could also see getting a Linvala or 2 in the board to shut off Elves, DRS, SFM, everything cool. Maybe cut a Canonist down to 1 and remove the Library (leave one main). Thoughts?
I found taking shamans fuel away is the best way to approach fighting the card. Honestly the only reason I splashed two in was to fight other deathrites and to have a quicker play on the yard. Scavenging Ooze also took care of the deathrites in my matches over the weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
This isnt what I want to hear. Like I said I havent played against the deck yet, but it looks terrifying.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThediscoPower
And as far as the "X-Tutor" card discussion I use to be back and forth on at least E-Tutor. I've never thought about running Worldy Tutor but the only creatures I can't GSZ for I run in multiples and would expect to see them a fair amount. The thing that gets me with them is losing a card and basically a draw step. The target going to the top of your library doesnt help you on a t2 show and tell(them on the play). Id just rather run more of the card I know I need in bad matchups, and tune my board to very specific matchups. The reason I quit looking at Tutor boards is I felt I was spreading myself too thin. Wanting game against every match up possible. Quickly I realized that didnt work well for me so I started singling out the 5-6 most popular/successful decks and went to work on my board to specifically hit those types of decks in a way that complimented my main, not having to directly rely on my sb.
Your sideboard does remind me of the Maverick sideboards of old. With Maverick, there are so many situational cards in the main deck that you can justify having many 1 of and 2 ofs without hurting consistency.Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
Ive played against it many times and won every time, last one was the final of the tournament that i reported. We have so many threats that it is hard for them to react to all of them. EE is obviously a problem on the SB, i got lucky with it cause he didnt have mana to blow it up the same turn and i had decay, reason he didnt have the mana for it was my 2 x wastelands. Wasteland is really good in this MU, they have low land count and snapcaster needs some mana to work efficiently. Mom is our go to guy with scryb ranger. If you have both of them at the table you have propably won the game. Those equips they bring arent a problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by conley1000000
Then to the batterskull matter. Ive tested it and ive had the same results that it doesnt even belong to the SB, it is not the card for maverick, its a card for Deathblade etc, decks who can protect it. Of course some people just like it so much that they wanna keep it in and thats their choice. It just doesnt bring anything that we dont allready have and you really dont wanna draw it from BoB or have it in opening hand. And drawing Jitte is just better than drawing a Stoneforge mystic.