How did you feel about the Council's Judgment? I always felt like it was a worse answer to planeswalkers than a maindeck Clique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticalstal
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How did you feel about the Council's Judgment? I always felt like it was a worse answer to planeswalkers than a maindeck Clique.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ticalstal
It's not only for planeswalkers, though. Sometimes you hit a planewalker, sometimes you take out a sword, a goyf or an opposing Counterbalance :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
How about opponent's TNN? How about avoiding all the Vine's non-sense and actually deal with infect creature when you don't have mass removal? How about actually dealing with SoFI?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
Its definitely clunky and not a card I'm in love with but as others mentioned, its a nice "catch-all" for stuff that's harder to deal with main deck (or stuff you weren't prepared for in the sideboard) that can be flashed back with snapcaster. Planeswalkers were not as scary with MD mentor but being able to take out a equipment or true name (without using terminus) is nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher
I took it out on MTGO during the dig through time era since 90% of the decks online were dig through time decks or burn so I could see it out in the right meta.
The deck was pretty awesome for me all tournament long and I really liked the numbers I played and sb cards I registered.
For the record, I didn't shuffle away a terminus (it was a Japanese rest in peace) :-)
I wrote a free article about the deck for vintagemagic so if you guys are interested in reading about my take on building and playing the deck be sure to check it out. Personally, I believe miracle control is the best deck in legacy. Hard to play well, but highly rewarding and extemely powerful when played well.
http://www.vintagemagic.com/blog/mir...-brian-demars/
I managed to make Top8 again at the Eternal Clash #6 in Northern Germany after winning it last time with Miracles.
Here is my report: https://bordifies.com/articles/leavi...nal-clash-com/
List I played:
Creatures (5)
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Snapcaster Mage
Instants (14)
2 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
Sorceries (9)
1 Council's Judgment
1 Entreat the Angels
3 Terminus
4 Ponder
Enchantments (4)
4 Counterbalance
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Artifacts (4)
4 Sensei's Divining Top
Lands (21)
2 Arid Mesa
2 Plains
3 Island
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
Sideboard (15)
1 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Wear // Tear
1 Blood Moon
1 Containment Priest
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Rest In Peace
3 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Terminus
Congrats. on Top 8 at the GP, Mr. Demars. While that's great, the semi-final did feel like you got crushed in a spectacular fashion when you were supposedly favored. That Game one opening with one-fetchland and SDT was... odd to say the least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forcefieldyou
Believe me, I wish I would have had stronger hands in that top 8 match. I'm never going to ship a hand that has a land and a Top on a mulligan to six. It was annoying that I couldn't ever find the second land but that's Magic for you. The other game I got to look at like 15 cards and never saw a Top or a Terminus.Quote:
Originally Posted by twndomn
I think that Miracles is slightly favored in the match up but I think it is very close. The match up certainly isn't easy and there are a lot of ways the draws can line up that that heavily favor one deck or the other. I added the Blood Moons to the sideboard because I actually felt the match up was pretty difficult, especially with the Lands player getting access to lots of Krosan Grips post sideboard.
Hey all. After an 8/9 months hiatus from Mtg, yesterday I had the chance to play in a 6 swiss turns, 40 player events. What to bring? Miracles, of course.
I was playing the 4 ponders list since, well, forever, I think I was in the first ''wave'' of people advocating 4 Ponders. Normally, 9 months ago I wouldn't have played 4 Counterbalance but a quick check on tcdecks revealed me Tempo decks and Miracles are two of the main choices, and slamming CB in those matchups is mandatory. So I said, let's check some Miracles stocklists and to my great relieve the only substantial change I saw was -2 Miracles +2 Mentors, and of course eschewing 2 Rebs now that the dumb draw spells are banned, in favor of more generic Counterspells. I thought about that back when I heard about the announcement but I was in favor of Spell Snares at the time, and sincerely I still am a bit on the fence on CSpell since I still think it's slow when Delver decks are one of the major contender. Nevertheless, I ended up sleeving 2.
maindeck
Current Mentor stocklist, with three JTMS and 3/1 Miracles setup. Except that I never liked the third Volcanic and I think it's not really useful, if not straight suboptimal since we don't have Explosives or any red card maindeck, and postboard we never use red mana more than once or twice for the occasional couple of Rebs. So I play:
3 Tundra
2 Volcs
4 Flooded
4 Scalding
2 Arid
4 Island
2 Plains
And this has been my configuration of choice since, well, more than 3 years :D.
SB:
3 Red Elemental Blast
2 Wear // Tear
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Rest In Peace
2 Flusterstorm
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Pyroclasm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Staticaster and Pyroclasm have been staples in my sideboard since forever. They're amazing and if you're not playing them in a open varied meta you're doing it wrong. Grafdigger was there to diversify grave hate mainly. Had to move the two maindeck Reb to the sb. The rest of the choices are pretty self explanatory, with the exception of eschewing the 3rd Flusterstorm- I think it's not needed unless you are meta calling a combo oriented metagame- but again, this is personal preference.
R1 Bant Blade W 1-0
R2 Mentor Miracle W 2-1
R3 Canadian Thresh W 2-1
R4 Infect L 1-2
R5 Affinity L 1-2 (I know, I know)
R6 Grixis Pyromancer W 2-0
Top8: Burn W 2-0
and then had to drop because it was too late for my driver :D We splitted in top8 anyways.
Deck felt smooth as always and I love the Mentors and definitely will play them again. While I played it only twice vs. burn and once vs. Canadian, I liked to think that I always had another angle of attack which is not setting up a clunky miracle card that needed a Top to be exploited to it's full potential. I still miss the 4th Terminus though.
You might want to reread Grafdigger's Cage...
The main reason for playing 3 Volcanic Island is against decks playing Wasteland. Wear//Tear and Izzet Staticaster are needed for DxT. Wear//Tear also comes in against Shardless BUG,Punishing Blue, Delver decks.. I've had multiple situations where that 3th Volcanic Island was needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by kiblast
Pyroclasm kills 80% of the threaths of the decks you mentioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
It's at its maximum power imho at the moment.
To play 2 of them I am out of Clique and Venser (just Mentor and Angels)
Hey guys Ive recently picked up this deck and having some trouble with Merflok with MB chalice and shardless Bug any advice on how to play and board against them?
Thanks in advance!
You need something like Peacekeeper in order to beat merfolk, this matchup is atrocious without something like that (Or something similar, like Llawan)Quote:
Originally Posted by RankaLee
Shardless bug just takes familiarity with the matchup. No generel advice. Some people board out CounterBalance, some people overload it.
(*Inb4 Poron: Just play Pyroclasm, it kills them all dead)
Yeah I know about that, that's why I usually fetch the Volc when I need it, in order to save it for the right moment when I need to cast Wear or Staticaster. Also the spells you mentioned are instant speed, so the only real downside is Pyroclasm being a sorcery.Quote:
Originally Posted by rancOr_
I had multiple situations as well where I was forced to keep a Volc in my starting 7 and had one mana cut away due to Wasteland. And in my experience that happens way more than having your opponent using two Wastelands on your two Volcanics postboard, specially if you are moderately smart with your fetches.
Quote:
Originally Posted by presquepartout
Regarding the Grafdigger, yeah, after 9 months not playing it looks I'm a bit rusty :D
Containment Priest, Wear/Tear, 3 Rebs, 3 Snapmage, 4 StP, 4 Terminus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quasim0ff
Problems with Merfolk? it's the very same as Elves...
Have you played the matchup?Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
It's so far from Elves, it's not even funny...
it's a whack-a-mole matchup.
Every creature is a threath, but they have no removals and if you counter/destroy/needle their Vial, it's pretty much a slow deck..
Anyway yes, if you have the spot for a Peacekeeper it surely helps a lot. I don't play Pyroblast MD anymore, so my SB is veery stretched.
Thanks guys guess i might be just playing the deck wrong still new to it. was playing jeskai and esper stoneblade before I swapped over to miracles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
Don't listen to Poron. Merfolk is a lot more difficult than Elves. Chalice, Cavern, Vial, Mutavault, and TNN are all problematic. On top of that, they run countermagic for your Terminus. I've had the most success against them when I can turn the corner very quickly, and Mentor can help with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by RankaLee
I was playing against Merfolk last week with miracles. Cavern is rough because I don't run any land hate (a single blood moon sideboard that didn't show up, and isn't necessarily worth it anyways). I lost one game to a turn 2 chalice. When i found EE, they had a FOW of course and I couldn't stop the beatdowns. Game 3 they resolved TNN fast because of cavern, and when i terminused it away, they just played a second one and held up countermagic for any other terminus. It's pretty rough. Very very different than elves. Also islandwalk can hurt bad.
It's not that the deck is impossible, but it's much harder than elves, which practically autofolds to a single terminus and countertop most of the time.
To be fair, I don't think any of you took Poron's advice of running Null Rod in the sideboard. Maybe that significantly affects the Merfolk matchup.
Jesus Christ the miracle hate is strong on cockatrice. Just played against a jund dude packing chains, needle, sylvan, blasts, x2 choke. And that's seeing half the deck or something (but can't believe he got more). Still won via snapcaster and clique while choked out : D
By the way, 4 snaps are totally the way to go, its the best creature in the mirror too.
honestly, If Merfolk is so strong why Sliver isn't a deck?
3 colors are no issue in Legacy and they have 12 lords + Shrouder + Lifelinker + Flyer and any techy creatures we will ever think of...
I guess to start, lifelink and flying mean fuck all vs miracles, but drawing cards and countering spells does? And that whole unblockable thing, as well as every creature in the deck pitching to Force? Don't even know why I'm entering this conversation honestly, but there's some food for thought...Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
vs Miracle Flying is as good as islandwalk.
and Sliver has Shroud and resiloency ti Reb which is pretty relevant.
If they can protect their Vial they can go off even faster and better.
Yea, they can pack Disenchant and StP as well..
If merfolk is so strong why aren't Sliver and Merfolk at least 5% of the meta?
edit: ah yeah sorry! haha
Syphon Sliver version also plays Abrupt Decay and Krosan Grip
I try to sleeve a list...
Hello all,
I am a DnT player that is branching out right now for other decks. I checked the last few pages to see if this idea was brought up, but I did not see it. I am looking to make miracles slightly different than what I see generally. Has anyone thought about a playset of Young Pyro and maybe 2 or 3 Mentor in the Counterbalance/Top shell? Would that be viable with a list something like this below?
MB:
21 Lands
4 YP
3 Mentor
2 Snapcaster
4 Top
4 CB
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Swords
2 Jace
2 Bolt
3 Probe
4 FoW
Thanks for you considerations!
That is a countertop deck, and it doesn't involve miracles cards at all. There are numerous other threads about potential countertop shells, exactly with the cards your considering, but I don't think that this is the place for such a discussion. Please feel free to correct me, anyone else who frequents this, but this is not a miracle shell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tristin183
Agreed, this is something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Minniehajj
And if you want to branch out and learn new decks, radically changing one probably isn't the best way to start.
Thank you all for your words. I suppose it isn't a Miracle shell, but it is countertop. I will look elsewhere for assistance!
Has anyone used the rest in peace version of Miracles?? In theory it seems like a great idea because I don't think we get much value out of our graveyard, outside of in comparison to decks like bug, dredge, lands, Loam, jund, etc. and it can either win via combo or entreat. I'm fairly new to the deck so I wouldn't be surprised if I am completely mistaken but tell me what yall think.
http://i.tcgplayer.com/52206.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
Shameless plug for a possible thread you might be interested in. Not a countertop shell, more like Mentor:http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/showthread.php?29428-Punishing-Dack-Miracle and http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...1-Esper-MentorQuote:
Originally Posted by Tristin183
I assume you mean the version that has Enlightened Tutor? That version is pretty powerful, and was quite popular a few years ago, initially, but it lacks consistency and Enlightened tutor is card disadvantage built in, which isn't something we necessarily want. 4Ponder variant is built around the idea of being smooth and consistent, which is why it's quite a bit more popular now. It's also a lot less clunky than the Etutor version can be. While you mention that it is powerful, it suffers from sometimes drawing the wrong side of the deck in matchups where they don't matter as much, and is significantly weaker in the mirror. An example of the mirror in question would be our own Einherjar playing against my good friend from the Chicago area, Nick Hess, who was on the Etutor version of the deck. The video is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h9qnmvQhAoQuote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
The video is short, but I was there at the event watching, and it wasn't even remotely close. The bombs were answered by cheap mana counterspells and removal, and having a clunky build isn't what we want overall, I don't think.
Most of the above is simply from my personal experience with various builds of the deck, so anyone else is welcome to chime in as well :
EDIT:Also this. You underestimate the power of snapcaster mage if you don't think we gain much value from the graveyard ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AnziD
Biggest downside is not being able to run Snapcaster Mage. In a Meta that relies on its GY heavily I suppose its a worthwhile concession, but Snappy is a big source of consistency for the deck so be careful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
No one is saying Merfolk is strong, they're saying it's strong against Miracles. And yeah a nut draw from a Sliver deck might be strong against Miracles as well, but part of analyzing the matchup is thinking about how likely that nut draw is. If it's a bad matchup in 5% of the cases where they vomit their hand onto the board and have protection and you can't find a Terminus, but a good matchup in the other 95%, then that's a good matchup! Goblins is also strong against Miracles, but guess what, it's weak to lots of other decks and that's why the only people who play it are the people who really love Goblins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poron
I understand that you're interested in the deck, but I think you should look at the fact that literally everyone here is disagreeing with you, and how likely it is that they're all wrong. This thread contains thoughts and opinions of people who've won and top 8'ed GPs, SCG events, and other big tournaments around the world, and you're giving advice to newer players based on your experiences running Null Rod (the card that OTHER decks bring in to turn off our Tops) to defeat all the MUD decks you encounter on Cockatrice. I really don't think your experiences can be extended to the entire format.
Ok thanks for the insight on that, I guess I'm just sorta hating how bad im getting owned when I run this deck. I went to two tourneys and only have won 1 round. I'm just trying to find someway to end games quicker but it seems I'll just have to get used to playing the deck.
Miracles is a deck that absolutely requires numerous repetitions, vast knowledge of the format, and, overall, practice. Don't get discouraged, you'll lose a lot at first, but it's extremely rewarding to learn to play well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
Usually it goes like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
>Lose for 6 months
>Keep going
>Start winning some
>nearly there...
>suddenly you understand what you're going to do, and you're somewhat golden
It is a very tough deck to play, and an extremely tough deck to play quickly. It's also a known quantity and the ways for other decks to fight it are both well established (Null Rod, Wear//Tear, how to destroy Top, how to play around CB) and well practised by the people who pilot them. When you play the "best deck", you put a target on your back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Black of all trades
Combine an inexperienced Miracles pilot with an experienced other-deck pilot and well-trodden anti-Miracles tech, and the result is that you'll lose a LOT for a while. Once you learn to play around the hate and know exactly what to dig for and what your outs are (when to shuffle, how to stack a Top, how to order spells to dig deep), you'll be able to play around the hate and win. But the only way to learn those is the hard way. Don't give up!
http://www.toplevelpodcast.com/the-p...nastery-mentor
31:08
"This card is insane, Karakas is crazy" - Patrick Chapin
I trust Hall of Fame player's insight.