[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I'm perplexed that we start using budget options for 3€ cards now. It's also a bit of a functional difference here and being inexperienced with the deck isn't an adequate reasoning for running sub-optimal cards which will alter the experience the player will have with the deck. The same is true for all budget options like ideas to run shocklands or a manabase with full gold lands.

I had to witness more than enough players, who dropped the deck before it was propper build and learned, calling it a random lucksack pile, just because they ran bad substitutes and/or misplayed the deck all over with bad sequencing (mana/protection during combo, how to cantrip right with only a few fetches, when to cantrip and when to cast disruption, brainstorm for fixing vs. Brainstorm for protection, etc.)

I sweared, I slap everyone in public running shocklands, but complaining that Ad Nauseam doesn't get him/her there

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I know you don't like budget options. :wink:
And don't worry, I won't advise on using shock lands. Ever. I promise.

About Therapy vs. Duress: if your play skill sucks, you could also misplay Therapy and feel the deck is bad because of it. If one mistakes own play errors for a bad deck build, one doesn't deserve to play Storm. We don't need them to either. They'll just fail and whine about it. Duress is still a valid choice in certain metas. In NL we don't see that much Death&Taxes (where Therapies are definitely better), and if you do encounter it, you still have a good chance to beat it regardless of having Duress instead of Therapy. The only match I feel becomes MUCH worse with Duress over Therapy is Patriot. Still winnable though, with tight play and a little luck. :smile:

EDIT: "We" changed to "I", because I saw someone had actually mentioned shock lands. I hadn't seen that yet.

If you all don't have money for the cards,borrow them.
Honestly,shocklands are terrible in an ad nauseam deck (drawing 2-3 cards less is crucial) and only 2 duals with 3-4 fetchlands can be also horrible if you have multiple fetchlands but no actual lands to fetch them.

Borrow expensie cards - win tournaments -> buy them !
I would call this the path to victory ;D


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

only 2 duals with 3-4 fetchlands can be also horrible if you have multiple fetchlands but no actual lands to fetch them.

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Come on guys! We've heard this argument enough now.

We're talking about budget decisions, and if Team Nijmegen (very experienced Storm players) perform well with 1x Sea, 1x Volcanic and 4x Fetch, even though they have like 20 Seas in their team -so yes they consciously chose to run TES like that- why not mention it to someone who requests advice on budget choices?
If he can borrow the cards, he'll play them. Believe me, he won't ask for budget advice if he can borrow anything he might need.

Unfortunately my main sources of borrowing cards for tournaments also plays Storm (ANT), so I doubt I can borrow much in the way of fetches and duals from him. Shocklands are definitely a no-no for me in this deck. I run a shockland in my Belcher deck, because let's all be honest, if the 2 life in that deck matters, you've got bigger problems to worry about.

I'm probably going to be running a 2 dual 4 fetch build to start out because of money. That is just going to be 1x Sea, 1x Volcanic, and 4x fetch (in my case Mires), right?

Once again, thank you guys very much for all your tips and bareing with "budget" talks. At least I'm not sitting here asking for replacements for the key cards in the deck!

The problem with picking up mires is that they don't have many applications outside of this deck. If you plan to exclusively play TES and never play a trop in it then sure get mires, otherwise is makes more sense to get some of the cheaper blue fetches at the very least.


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Originally Posted by Lemnear

I'm perplexed that we start using budget options for 3€ cards now. It's also a bit of a functional difference here and being inexperienced with the deck isn't an adequate reasoning for running sub-optimal cards which will alter the experience the player will have with the deck. The same is true for all budget options like ideas to run shocklands or a manabase with full gold lands.

I had to witness more than enough players, who dropped the deck before it was propper build and learned, calling it a random lucksack pile, just because they ran bad substitutes and/or misplayed the deck all over with bad sequencing (mana/protection during combo, how to cantrip right with only a few fetches, when to cantrip and when to cast disruption, brainstorm for fixing vs. Brainstorm for protection, etc.)

I sweared, I slap everyone in public running shocklands, but complaining that Ad Nauseam doesn't get him/her there

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'How to cantrip' is by far the most important skill people need to learn to master this deck, so fetchlands into a relevant land is super important here. If the shocklands are here for the sake of cantripping, I won't disapprove them.

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Originally Posted by chainedcurses

the prices of the therapies(as they go for numerous other decks, and they are only about $15 a piece)

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A piece?! Legacy is getting really expensive now. I'm still thinking they are in the $0.50 pile.

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Originally Posted by chainedcurses

Once again, thank you guys very much for all your tips and bareing with "budget" talks. At least I'm not sitting here asking for replacements for the key cards in the deck!

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The mana base is pretty key. That's why there is so much argument for the 2x Underground Sea and 1x Volcanic Island.

My suggestions were for people that play of a more casual nature. I believe if you intend to play in larger tournaments, the lack of the second Underground Sea will be pivotal in match ups where resources are constricted.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Gatz

The problem with picking up mires is that they don't have many applications outside of this deck. If you plan to exclusively play TES and never play a trop in it then sure get mires, otherwise is makes more sense to get some of the cheaper blue fetches at the very least.


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This may be true, but all fetchlands hold value. It wouldn't be a big mistake in getting them. Is Team Italia still a thing? I know Jund can use Bloodstained Mire. So can Aggro Loam.

I guess "How to cantrip correctly" and "Keep or mulligan a starting grip" are, by far, the most important ones with "Sequencing spells" and "which engine to choose" behind as those are patterns you can learn. Ranking is up to you.

Cabal Therapy is 2,50€ on MCM. I'm confused if we are refering to the foil-vs.-non-foil mistake made by TCG which still affects the US or talk about premium versions (FNM is 8€, Premium Deck Promo 5€). 15$ for an unfoil is a desaster.

For the manabase i can give you an example hand of U.Sea, Fetch, Probe, Therapy, Therapy, Ponder, Infernal. You'll be on the draw, cast probe and see a T2 Hymn or a combo coming, you'll drop the Sea and Therapy. In your turn 2 you may have to strip a second combo Piece or a threat, because your hand lacks explosive mana and now you are fucked without the second U.Sea as you can't cast Ponder first to cherrypick a card, fetch for the Sea #2 and still are able to cast Therapy. No, without the second Sea you have to choose between Therapy/Ponder or have to fetch for Volcanic and cast a Ponder without the chance to shuffle (to still being able to cast Therapy afterwards). *Enter full article about, how important maximum value cantrips are in storm* Now imagine that your opponent topdecks/holds a wasteland for his turn 2 to take out your U.Sea! Suddenly you have an Infernal + Cabal Therapy in hand and a Fetchland which can't get you a fucking black source! Each drawn Fetchland is a 100% dead draw too from now on as you have 2 Fetches but only 1 target left. How bad is that!? There are plenty of scenarios which could explain, why there is a second Sea in the deck, but I stop with the one given.

Guys, have a bit faith in the list and changes. Card quanities are not a result of taste, budget or a shallow numbers game (like relation fetches to duals), but because of testing cornercases over and over.

On the topic of budget: Potentially you can go for a while with only 1 U.Sea without noticing a serious problem, but I guaran-damn-tee the wish for a second Sea will occur within the first 30 compeditive matches

Edit: Just want to share our laughter from yesterday: "With the right sequencing, Lion's Eye Diamond turns Infernal Tutor UNCOUNTERABLE on it's way to the graveyard!"

Hello,

I'm going to play TES now and I want to ask you for a favour :). Can one of you gentleman playing the deck give me a few straight examples of how to side in some most common matchups (BUG, Esper, Jund, D&T, Miracles, Goblins etc.) I've read the first page but it seems in involves cards like tropical island which seems to be missing now. I would be really happy if someone could share sideboarding techinques with me (could be by prive message too if you want it to be a secret of how do you side:P). Thx a lot! :)

It depends on your sideboard, what cards do you play? If you play the cards like on Page 1 without tropical, then just board like on page 1 without boarding the tropical ;-)

@ Lemnear: your edit is far too good to be true :-D its all about sequencing!

Yes I'm going to play Bryant's list. Are there any other variants?

Of course there are other variants, its all about your meta-game. If you don't expect reanimator, i would not play surgicals. If there are a lot of miracles player, you better play 3 decays. And so on..
As you play bryants list, stick to his boarding plans!

SPOILER: The Tropical is back in the SB. This and the rest of the new list (~5 Maindeck changes) will go live by Saturday/Sunday after the Invitational

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Originally Posted by Omega87

@ Lemnear: your edit is far too good to be true :-D its all about sequencing!

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It IS true. Bryant hinted me on that interaction ... Lol

Edit: i know people like the -x/+y pattern presented for boarding, but with a changing MB and meta-tuned sideboards this is near impossible to keep updated because it's ridiculously time intensive. The SB section in the primer tries to avoid the Problem of being outdated every 2-4 weeks by giving ideas and strategies you can adapt for your own metagamed SB. Specified boarding plan with the current primer list are within the last 10 pages of this thread and include BUG, Blade, Miracles and other stuff. Look it up

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

SPOILER: The Tropical is back in the SB. This and the rest of the new list (~5 Maindeck changes) will go live by Saturday/Sunday after the Invitational



It IS true. Bryant hinted me on that interaction ... Lol

Edit: i know people like the -x/+y pattern presented for boarding, but with a changing MB and meta-tuned sideboards this is near impossible to keep updated because it's ridiculously time intensive. The SB section in the primer tries to avoid the Problem of being outdated every 2-4 weeks by giving ideas and strategies you can adapt for your own metagamed SB. Specified boarding plan with the current primer list are within the last 10 pages of this thread and include BUG, Blade, Miracles and other stuff. Look it up

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This is exactly what I was looking for as a new player :). The "-x/+y" helps a lot more at the beggining than the general description (that helps more an experienced players) or reading the "x" pages of discussion which you even weren't part of. But if you say it was discussed then I'll read those pages. Thx very much and I really can't wait to see the new maindeck. Regards :)

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Originally Posted by Ragdoll

This is exactly what I was looking for as a new player :). The "-x/+y" helps a lot more at the beggining than the general description (that helps more an experienced players) or reading the "x" pages of discussion which you even weren't part of. But if you say it was discussed then I'll read those pages. Thx very much and I really can't wait to see the new maindeck. Regards :)

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I remember BUG (Team America), Miracles, Reanimator and SneakShow being recent topics. You may take a look at the reports in my signature (start with Vol.6) or tournament reports listed in the primer for detailed -x/+y boarding plans and explaination

Wow, 5 md changes.
Really curious what those changes could be :D

Maybe 4 md empty-->grinding station style (since empty is very good with therapy flashback)? just speculating..

Probably since nothing is as good as casting Ad Nauseam and flipping 4 Rite of Flame into 3 Empty the Warrens to get your tons of Goblins even after they Stifled the first storm trigger !
Also SSG to power them out.

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Originally Posted by Holly

Probably since nothing is as good as casting Ad Nauseam and flipping 4 Rite of Flame into 3 Empty the Warrens to get your tons of Goblins even after they Stifled the first storm trigger !
Also SSG to power them out.

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hahahaha true that:D
can you even imagine how i totally don't have a clue about the proposed changes ?:P
I'm sorry for my horrible post :)

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Originally Posted by R3D

hahahaha true that:D
can you even imagine how i totally don't have a clue about the proposed changes ?:P
I'm sorry for my horrible post :)

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I can imagine, they don't make this secretiveness for nothing.
Just wait for it, its going to be... oh fucked the order up..

5 MD changes? -5 Japanese Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseam for Korean Infernal Tutor and Ad Nauseam perhaps:eek:

Bryant appears to have went 3-1 in the first legacy portion of SCGinvi.

Get there!