[Deck] 12 Post

I'm on the UG build, and have cut candelabras down to only one copy. It's often one of the first cards I side out after game 1. Sometimes I'm even considering to cut it completely! A few weeks ago, Mr. Kassari wrote something about candelabra and why he doesn't play a single copy, and it sounds convincing. Candelabra can be huge, sure. But without Cloudposts in play it's often a dead card, and mana fixing isn't that relevant in most of the games I play. I like to see a needle in my starting 7, since it helps to protect my locus lands. What do the other UG guys think about candelabra? And how many copies do you play? Thanks!

Candelabra has helped me get double green for too many early Prime Times, and helped me nullify too many Rishadan Ports, for me to think much about cutting it entirely. I typically run two copies in UG, though I side one of them out fairly frequently. I'm aware this may be me being biased by my own experience, though, and I'll have to check out Kassari's reasoning and probably give it a try at Legacy night some week.

Well i could only afford one candle so i'm running one obviously. i agree with thelastbeast that mana fixing comes up often enough to matter. i'm running trinket with EE so the candle fits nicely in the deck, when i need it i fetch it. i also board it out in many games... Candle can win games and i think we shouldn't cut it completely. Additionally many players are afraid of it and tend to treat it as a high priority target. In this respect you can get rid of removal or counters to clear the way, as described in the primer... and if they leave it laying around the battlefield it can backfire on them very quickly!

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Originally Posted by Postman

I'm on the UG build, and have cut candelabras down to only one copy. It's often one of the first cards I side out after game 1. Sometimes I'm even considering to cut it completely! A few weeks ago, Mr. Kassari wrote something about candelabra and why he doesn't play a single copy, and it sounds convincing. Candelabra can be huge, sure. But without Cloudposts in play it's often a dead card, and mana fixing isn't that relevant in most of the games I play. I like to see a needle in my starting 7, since it helps to protect my locus lands. What do the other UG guys think about candelabra? And how many copies do you play? Thanks!

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I have two candelabras and usually play both in my UG build. You could get away with one if your playing trinket mage(s). I had one candle for the longest time until I stockpiled enough credit to get a 2nd. There are games where I just whoops I win when I've drawn a candelabra. I've also had the scenario where I've drawn it and it does absolutely nothing. You haven't experienced ug post until your opponent plays choke and you start untapping your islands with a Candelabra. Also, drawing the pair of candels is always bad. :frown:

Can Courser of Kruphix replace Oracle of Mul Daya?

I rarely go for Oracle with GSZ (when I do its just so I can have a blocker). I'm asking because Courser gains life when you lay down a land.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Can Courser of Kruphix replace Oracle of Mul Daya?

I rarely go for Oracle with GSZ (when I do its just so I can have a blocker). I'm asking because Courser gains life when you lay down a land.

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As a 1-of target sure. I would like more but the double green cost could be problematic.

Personally I like oracle for the extra land drops plus access to the top deck. Courser does give access to top deck but the 1 life each land is likely less relevant than the ramp that oracle can provide. 1 life gain is fine as well, but we already have Glimmerpost which can is still more efficient if we are getting extra land drops anyway. The only real upside past that for courser is the bolt proof back end. Both are likely fine in a GSZ build as a 1 of.

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Originally Posted by maCHOOga

Also, drawing the pair of candels is always bad. :frown:

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I'm curious why you don't like drawing multiple candles? In my experience (with mono-G), multiple candles are extremely powerful and enable huge amounts of mana with only a few posts out. For example, 2x candles + 2x Cloudposts = Ugin.


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Originally Posted by TheBoozeCube

I'm curious why you don't like drawing multiple candles? In my experience (with mono-G), multiple candles are extremely powerful and enable huge amounts of mana with only a few posts out. For example, 2x candles + 2x Cloudposts = Ugin.


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I think it dependson the fact that you are talking about some sort of "5 cards combo" (double untapped post + double candelabra in play and ugin in hand) that it's not so common to see in your starting or so hand. Double candelabra + single post = why am i running these expensive ancient cards in my nice deck? (i love ancient cards btw)

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Originally Posted by Davek

I think it dependson the fact that you are talking about some sort of "5 cards combo" (double untapped post + double candelabra in play and ugin in hand) that it's not so common to see in your starting or so hand. Double candelabra + single post = why am i running these expensive ancient cards in my nice deck? (i love ancient cards btw)

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It's not exactly a crazy 5-card "combo" here. We're just talking about having a couple of Cloudposts in play, which is kind of what the entire deck is designed to do. And I'm not just talking about having a T3 Ugin with a sweet opener. I'm talking about situations like being down to 2x Posts because your others have been hit by Wasteland and you desperately need mana to wipe a board full of creatures. Topdecking a second candle midgame so I can immediately cast Ugin or Dust that's been stuck in hand has saved my life so many times I can't even count. Or to be able to cast Kozilek or Ulamog off a meh board like 1x Cloud, 2x Glimmers, and a Forest. Basically, I'm just talking about normal game situations. Candelabra lets you do more with less. Multiples, even more so.


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this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

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Originally Posted by hymnyou

this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

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I think you're right about this. Even if both plans are to kill with Eldrazi I think the decks are too different to stay in the same thread. As much as it pains me to admit.

EDIT: As much as I love 3Sphere, I think the CMC is too weird for the deck.

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Originally Posted by hymnyou

this thread is confusing. Two totally different decks getting discussed in one thread, really should be a separate mono-green thread.

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It shouldn't be an issue if people provide the courtesy of saying which version they play. Most people specify, as TheBoozeCube did above. If there are a lot of changes or new tech, a deck list is helpful. UG and Mono-G are very similar, and the Post archetype hasn't been standardized, aside from the Locus lands in tandem with Primeval Titan and usually other ways to find lands and pre-emptively stop Wasteland. If you've been following this thread for a while, you'll remember all sorts of builds and different splashes Rock Lee played, and some of those were more different than Mono-G but didn't need different threads.

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Originally Posted by ESG

It shouldn't be an issue if people provide the courtesy of saying which version they play. Most people specify, as TheBoozeCube did above. If there are a lot of changes or new tech, a deck list is helpful. UG and Mono-G are very similar, and the Post archetype hasn't been standardized, aside from the Locus lands in tandem with Primeval Titan and usually other ways to find lands and pre-emptively stop Wasteland. If you've been following this thread for a while, you'll remember all sorts of builds and different splashes Rock Lee played, and some of those were more different than Mono-G but didn't need different threads.

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agreed, i would have to follow two thread instead of one. and besides the thread is more alive with our little green friends chatting on it so enjoyably. at least we have the same win conditions...

i had an interesting game yesterday against merfolk. post board he put in gilded drake. it won the game getting my titan into 4x wasteland. this seems like a real hate card for SnT. Did/t see it before...

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Originally Posted by MechTactical

i had an interesting game yesterday against merfolk. post board he put in gilded drake. it won the game getting my titan into 4x wasteland. this seems like a real hate card for SnT. Did/t see it before...

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Ouch is all I have to say about that. At least you still got 1 trigger off primeval titan. Would have been nice if he tutored wasteland and you top deck needle. Haha.

The decks are certainly similar enough and each variant can borrow from the other to an extent. Show and tell turn 3 into natural order turn 4 for be delightful at worst.

I am finally trading out of Sneak and Show, into 12 post. Is there any reason to keep Force of Wills? I do not see lists run them very often, but if they are worth keeping, I will hold onto them. Thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Emrakul503

I am finally trading out of Sneak and Show, into 12 post. Is there any reason to keep Force of Wills? I do not see lists run them very often, but if they are worth keeping, I will hold onto them. Thoughts?

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As far as finance goes force of will maintains its price and usually goes up of anything. I would hold onto it.

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Originally Posted by mykatdied

As far as finance goes force of will maintains its price and usually goes up of anything. I would hold onto it.

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I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time

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Originally Posted by Emrakul503

I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time

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IMO you don't need FoW at this moment, and candelabra "only" as a one-off. I'm not absolutly sure to keep it in the deck, but just read the last 2-3 pages ;-) but you should run at least 3 copies of Flusterstorm in the sideboard to fight storm..

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Originally Posted by Emrakul503

I thought that same thing, but I meant more "Are there 12 post lists playing Force and this point in it's evolution?" I see a lot of lists are not even playing blue any more, so I thought I would ask. I would lean more toward a non blue version but I like Show and Tell as a card, and cannot afford 3 Candleabras at this time

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If you have Belcher and oops all spells in your local meta, it would help to have it. If not flusterstorm and other counters like spell pierce are fine.