Miracle Control

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

---

I have not once wanted Mage over Priest... In that case, you'd prolly want Ethersworm Canonist over Mage anyhow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheKingslayer

I decided to take miracles for a spin and wound up in 2nd place at the Premier IQ in KC. My only loss, in the swiss, was to Tom Ross running his signature infect. I'll take that one, but overall I was happy with the list. The only iffiness stemmed from Containment Priest in the sideboard over a Meddling Mage. In the finals, in game 2, my opponent Sneak and Show opponent started off with a Boseiju. He dropped a turn three Show and Tell, and I responded with a Containment Priest. Unfortunately, he brought Omniscience to the table, which made Containment Priest seem rather silly. Looking back, I feel I may have preferred a Meddling Mage in the sideboard for this reason. Has anyone else been disappointed with Containment Priest? it has certainly shown its merits at times, but it seems that Show and Tell possesses the necessary adaptations to beat it.

---

To be honest, playing Omniscience in Sneak Show is pretty rare so most of the time Priest will be way better than Mage.
Secondly, even if you would have had Mage in this particular scenerio there is a 50/50 percent chance you would have died anyway (think about naming Emrakul to be blown out by griselbrand).
Mage is boardable against a large range of deck but unless you board in atleast 3 its impact is rather low in my experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dia_Bot

To be honest, playing Omniscience in Sneak Show is pretty rare so most of the time Priest will be way better than Mage.
Secondly, even if you would have had Mage in this particular scenerio there is a 50/50 percent chance you would have died anyway (think about naming Emrakul to be blown out by griselbrand).
Mage is boardable against a large range of deck but unless you board in atleast 3 its impact is rather low in my experience.

---

Obviously you just name Show and Tell, not Emrakul or Griselbrand.

Though I agree with the others, Omni isn't played too often in sneak and show.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dissection

Obviously you just name Show and Tell, not Emrakul or Griselbrand.

Though I agree with the others, Omni isn't played too often in sneak and show.

---

Yeah ofcourse, you're right. (although this would still only lock out 40% of their enablers (given a list with 4 Show and Tell, 4 Sneak Attack and maybe 2 Through the Breach) so the point can still be made in a certain way)

Went 5-1 yesterday, at my Local store, losing only to MUD (1-2).

Beat RUG Delver (2-1), B/W Discard/Surgical Extraction/Skitheryx table-magic (2-0), UWr Splinter Twin (2-0), Storm (2-0), BUG Omnitell (2-0).

Played Mort's list (2 spell pierce, 3 mentor, 0 angels), with a few changes due to local metagame:
-1 Jace, +1 Red Elemental Blast.
-1 Council's Judgment, +1 Counterspell.

I didn't really miss the 4th Sword/4th Terminus, but then again; I didn't play against any Elves/D&T lists.
The two spell pierces over-performed, actually as expected. I didn't miss the Council's Judgment (other than vs MUD, but I'm obviously playing Null Rod for this matchup, as suggested in this thread(Kappa)).

My sideboard was also different, as I don't really like stuff like Enlightened Tutur. I'm not a huge fan of Ethersworm Canonist currently either, so I played Containment Priest instead. I also didn't play Surgical, but I might have, due to 3 Snapcasters.

The more I play with mentor instead of Angels, the more certain I am that this is the list I want. This is also the first time in a long time, that my feeling of the deck have been progressing. I've felt much more alive, and felt I've had many more outs to play for. I've gone 14-3 in the last 2 weeks playing (5-1 this week, 5-1 the week before as well as 4-1 last Tuesday). (First week with Spell pierces, before that I played 4 swords, 4 terminus)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

Went 5-1 yesterday, at my Local store, losing only to MUD (1-2).

Beat RUG Delver (2-1), B/W Discard/Surgical Extraction/Skitheryx table-magic (2-0), UWr Splinter Twin (2-0), Storm (2-0), BUG Omnitell (2-0).

Played Mort's list (2 spell pierce, 3 mentor, 0 angels), with a few changes due to local metagame:
-1 Jace, +1 Red Elemental Blast.
-1 Council's Judgment, +1 Counterspell.

I didn't really miss the 4th Sword/4th Terminus, but then again; I didn't play against any Elves/D&T lists.
The two spell pierces over-performed, actually as expected. I didn't miss the Council's Judgment (other than vs MUD, but I'm obviously playing Null Rod for this matchup, as suggested in this thread(Kappa)).

My sideboard was also different, as I don't really like stuff like Enlightened Tutur. I'm not a huge fan of Ethersworm Canonist currently either, so I played Containment Priest instead. I also didn't play Surgical, but I might have, due to 3 Snapcasters.

The more I play with mentor instead of Angels, the more certain I am that this is the list I want. This is also the first time in a long time, that my feeling of the deck have been progressing. I've felt much more alive, and felt I've had many more outs to play for. I've gone 14-3 in the last 2 weeks playing (5-1 this week, 5-1 the week before as well as 4-1 last Tuesday). (First week with Spell pierces, before that I played 4 swords, 4 terminus)

---

Congrats on the finish. You're right with the sideboard, I'm also not totally happy with it but it's strong enough that I keep it that way. I want to be as flexible as possible (and I'm ramping up the greeeeeeed to the maximum) but there is probably a better version possible. Especially Keranos comes to mind here. Surgical is pretty good though and I wouldn't cut it anymore.

Sooo do I start the propaganda machine for 0 EtA now? ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

Congrats on the finish. You're right with the sideboard, I'm also not totally happy with it but it's strong enough that I keep it that way. I want to be as flexible as possible (and I'm ramping up the greeeeeeed to the maximum) but there is probably a better version possible. Especially Keranos comes to mind here. Surgical is pretty good though and I wouldn't cut it anymore.

Sooo do I start the propaganda machine for 0 EtA now? ;)

---

Yeah, I might start playing Keranos again, I love that card :D

I play 2 Wear // Tear though, as I basically bring in 1 in every single matchup anyway, and sometimes you just want 2. Plus it's insane with CBalance :D

I might play Surgical, but I haven't really struggled with Reanimator (or dredge, Lands or something like that yet) that warrants its inclusion over other cards.

Did anyone think about esper mentor miracles version?
With black color for Liliana of the veil (2nd best walker) and/or Tasigur, the golden fang (alternative finisher with karakas support)?

Liliana of the Veil doesn't work very well with Monastery Mentor since you rarely want to be hellbent or close to hellbent when resolving mentor. The manabase also becomes messier since you want access to u or/and w by turn 1, access to uu by turn 2, and access to bb by turn 3 meaning you might have no time to fetch basics against wasteland decks if you want to curve into Liliana of the Veil on turn 3. I have seen esper mentor miracles builds before but they always seem stressed for maindeck slots.

Black would only be useful for Discard. Not Liliana.

Liliana goes directly against what we want to do... Besides; Red is much stronger in it's ability to fight Blue than Thoughseize is.

what does Liliana that we need? We like to pass he turn with more card in hand and we already have much better tools for creature removals.

Anyways. When it comes to mentor in miracles, I tend to run a cavern of souls. Great in the mirror, and it tends to let me resolve mentor, get priority, play a top or ponder or whatever, and be guaranteed at least one token before my opponent can do anything about it. I found being a little more mentor heavy (and adding snaps/clique, with meddling mage in the SB) made my miracles build quite strong vs other miracles builds while still being good vs a lot of other decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Instead of commenting on my grammar (though I greatly appreciate the info because I'm always looking to improve my Japanese) why don't you actually answer the question? It's a very legitimate one, and Philip whom you @Quasim0ff worship so much has to use FoWs as a panic button for cards that absolutely cannot resolve, and yet here you are advocating taking all of them out.

---

Whom I worship, because I've really showed that... When? For playing ponder?

You don't want Liliana to go ultimate. You have Council's Judgement, Pithing Needle, Clique, Snapcasters and Mentors for that. You don't like Jace to resolve - You have Cspell and REB for that. You don't like Sylvan to stick, but you have Council's Judgement, Wear // Tear, Counterspell(/Spell Pierce) for that.

Pithing Needle is a beating, so is Null Rod - Which is why you board removal for these anyhow.


Yes, I advocate to board them all out. If your plan is, as most people prefer I guess, is to be a better control deck, then force is your worst card. If you want to blank Abrupt Decay, CBalance is terrible too. That's 8 cards:
2 Vendilion Clique - Better at pressuring Planeswalkers
2 Red Elemental Blast - Better vs Jace, Better vs Vision, Better vs Tar Pit.
2 Flusterstorm - Better vs Discard, Visions, At protecting a Key terminus/Swords, Better at protecting a Jace from a FoW from them.
2 Wear // Tear - Needed to deal with their hate for you: Needle, Null Rod, Sylvan Library, Night of Soul's Betrayal/Random hate for your mentors.

Then you can even sideboard stuff like -x, + Blood Moon if you want to, because Blood Moon just says "Fuck you, You don't get to play Magic anymore."

Also, stop being sensitive. Feel free to disagree, but argue your points rather than start name-calling. That doesn't suit an argument at all, and basically just means people won't take what you're saying serious, even if you have a point.

Hi everyone, I've been playing miracles mostly on MTGO for some time, with the following list:

Attachment 292

I'm going to a "win a biland" paper tournament tomorrow and I own only 2 Jaces. I am looking for a replacement and cannot really decide: should I go for another 4 mana planeswalker to use the same curve: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar maybe? Should I go with a 3rd Snapcaster or maybe a Spell Pierce instead?

I also know that some miracles list more heavy on the mentor plan only run 2 Jaces, with some number of Dazes, but as I don't own dazes in MTGO I will not be able to test such a list before the tournament with seems to be a good way to lose a lot :)

Thanks in advance for any help!

The guy is correct. FoW is pretty bad in the matchup as you have to cling to every bit of card advantage you can get, so you never ever want to spend to cards on one of their spells. Although I don't like boarding out all of the Counterbalances as it's imho pretty important to get those Visions countered.

With my current version, I'm boarding something like this:

-4 FoW
-1 Terminus
-1 Snapcaster Mage
-1 Tundra
-1 Counterbalance

+3 Pyro / REB
+1 Blood Moon
+1 Rest in Peace
+1 Venser, Shaper Savant
+1 Wear / Tear
+1 Pithing Needle (will be Keranos as soon as I get the Tix on Modo)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingbrago

Hi everyone, I've been playing miracles mostly on MTGO for some time, with the following list:

Attachment 292

I'm going to a "win a biland" paper tournament tomorrow and I own only 2 Jaces. I am looking for a replacement and cannot really decide: should I go for another 4 mana planeswalker to use the same curve: Elspeth Knight-Errant, Gideon Ally of Zendikar maybe? Should I go with a 3rd Snapcaster or maybe a Spell Pierce instead?

I also know that some miracles list more heavy on the mentor plan only run 2 Jaces, with some number of Dazes, but as I don't own dazes in MTGO I will not be able to test such a list before the tournament with seems to be a good way to lose a lot :)

Thanks in advance for any help!

---

Please use a bigger screenshot. The Mentor / Daze list is outdated imho as people have adapted. And while it can still catch people offguard, I'd advise against it. I wouldn't play a white 4CC walker, although someone played Gideon against me out of the sideboard and it was pretty good. I'd probably go with the 3rd Snapcaster, but more on that when I can see your list correctly.

Ok, so my list is:

Quote:

---

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Arid Mesa
3 Tundra
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
2 Plains

4 Swords to plowshares
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgement
2 Monastery Mentor
3 Jace, the mind Sculptor (so only 2 for the paper version)
1 Supreme Verdict
4 FoW
3 Terminus
1 Entreat the Angels

---

It is more or less netdecked from the various lists on mtgtop8. I am also still unsure of running Blood Moon+Keranos in the side any experience on that? I cut it from my side for more cliques and counters:

Quote:

---

SB:
2 Wear//tear
1 Izzet Staticaster
3 REB
1 Hydroblast
2 Flusterstorm
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Redirect
2 RiP

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kingbrago

Ok, so my list is:

---

Ok so I'd go for the third Snapcaster there. You probably want to switch Verdict with the 4th Terminus though.
Sideboard seems to be pretty streamlined, I don't see the need for Hydroblast and Redirect seems pretty bad. Maybe a second Staticaster or some sort of silver bullet?
Keranos and Blood Moon are very matchup dependent but will win those games if resolved. I'm currently thinking on playing Keranos again because he's very good against Shardless, the mirror (although not needed), Lands and all the nonblue decks (-Elves, probably -DnT). Blood Moon is good against the same decks and if resolved is a beating for those. On the con side is that you have to engineer the gamestate for the card to impact correctly and that's not easy at times. So in total: High risk, high reward cards for bad matchups.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

Ok so I'd go for the third Snapcaster there. You probably want to switch Verdict with the 4th Terminus though.
Sideboard seems to be pretty streamlined, I don't see the need for Hydroblast and Redirect seems pretty bad. Maybe a second Staticaster or some sort of silver bullet?
Keranos and Blood Moon are very matchup dependent but will win those games if resolved. I'm currently thinking on playing Keranos again because he's very good against Shardless, the mirror (although not needed), Lands and all the nonblue decks (-Elves, probably -DnT). Blood Moon is good against the same decks and if resolved is a beating for those. On the con side is that you have to engineer the gamestate for the card to impact correctly and that's not easy at times. So in total: High risk, high reward cards for bad matchups.

---

ok thanks for the advice :) Yes I was testing redirect and it is quite fun, it counters counterspells, redirects pyroblasts and abrupt decays but it is definitely not a high impact card though less situational that I initially thought.

What meta do you expect? A lot of blue mirrors? If that's the case, a REB is also excellent.

don't really know for the meta: I went to this store once for FNM and encountered a lot of budget decks (monored sneak attack, burn, manaless dredge), but looking back at the top8s from the previous "win a dual" events, the meta seems to be tier 1-2 decks, at least for the top tables (http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=10125&f=LE). So I expect to be able to beat random decks + delver variations and shardless basically

Tested Narset in the SB and it was always kinda meh. Now I play the 2ww Gideon. He is kinda sweet. I board him in the mirror and vs discard decks, or other grindy MU where you just want a nice topdeck that can win on its own! Just smash 7 power on the board!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quasim0ff

Whom I worship, because I've really showed that... When? For playing ponder?

You don't want Liliana to go ultimate. You have Council's Judgement, Pithing Needle, Clique, Snapcasters and Mentors for that. You don't like Jace to resolve - You have Cspell and REB for that. You don't like Sylvan to stick, but you have Council's Judgement, Wear // Tear, Counterspell(/Spell Pierce) for that.

Pithing Needle is a beating, so is Null Rod - Which is why you board removal for these anyhow.


Yes, I advocate to board them all out. If your plan is, as most people prefer I guess, is to be a better control deck, then force is your worst card. If you want to blank Abrupt Decay, CBalance is terrible too. That's 8 cards:
2 Vendilion Clique - Better at pressuring Planeswalkers
2 Red Elemental Blast - Better vs Jace, Better vs Vision, Better vs Tar Pit.
2 Flusterstorm - Better vs Discard, Visions, At protecting a Key terminus/Swords, Better at protecting a Jace from a FoW from them.
2 Wear // Tear - Needed to deal with their hate for you: Needle, Null Rod, Sylvan Library, Night of Soul's Betrayal/Random hate for your mentors.

Then you can even sideboard stuff like -x, + Blood Moon if you want to, because Blood Moon just says "Fuck you, You don't get to play Magic anymore."

---

Thank you for the reply.

What if I don't run a Pithing Needle? That means my only outs to Lili in particular are hoping I have one of my 2 CSpells or 1 Pierce (and hope they don't have 2 open mana) or my 1 Council's Judgment, or that I draw one of my 5 creatures (I'm not on Mentor), and since I board out CBs their Decays just protect her from my CMC ≤3 creatures. Would keeping in 1 FoW and taking out the Pierce be better since it's a hard counter that can hit creatures if that's what's important given the current boardstate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual

Thank you for the reply.

What if I don't run a Pithing Needle? That means my only outs to Lili in particular are hoping I have one of my 2 CSpells or 1 Pierce (and hope they don't have 2 open mana) or my 1 Council's Judgment, or that I draw one of my 5 creatures (I'm not on Mentor), and since I board out CBs their Decays just protect her from my CMC ≤3 creatures. Would keeping in 1 FoW and taking out the Pierce be better since it's a hard counter that can hit creatures if that's what's important given the current boardstate?

---

Angels aren't weak against Lilly either. You float mana and then let her ultimate resolve and keep the top, so you can make angels.

The matchup is a grind. They are a midrange Jund deck with Brainstorm, basically, which means you want to make as many cards trade 1/1, or accumulate card advantage over time (Snapcaster are especially good at this, as he is card-advantage). This is why Jace is one of the best cards against them. This is also why Mentor is a very good card versus them, in general: You make, at least, one token and they can't trade 1/1 with it - It either takes 2 removal spells, Liliana Activation, A block from Goyf of something similar.

Sure, you might not have C-Spell, Judgement or Spell Pierce. It's still not worth it to keep Force in, in my opinion, but it's up to personal preference. If it works for you, keep doing it. It's very much up to personal playstyle - Some people like to Overload their Decay, with RiP, Blood Moon, Decays and everything in between - Some people like to blank their decays entirely (or at least make it so they can't trade this for one of your cards). I, personally, think it depends on the Shardless player.

I feel like Mort's advice regarding his sidebaord-plan is somewhat controversial. Even for the Mentor list (which, to be fair, is much stronger overall. If you haven't tried it, do so please. You'll be amazed at how strong Mentor is compared to Angels).
Terminus is needed if you don't play mentor, in my opinion, as you otherwise get overrun by creatures pretty often.
I completly disagree with sideboarding the Snapcaster as well as the Tundra. I'd much rather go -2 Counterbalance (so you have 2 after board), don't board Vensor (I know the dream is to bounce a Liliana with him being hellbent, with her +1 on the stack) as well as not boarding in the Rest in Peace. Snapcaster is close to being the best card in this matchup, I feel like, as he does so much - Flashes back swords when needed, brainstorms, REB's, pressures Liliana, everything. With only 5 removal spells, you can quickly get outraced by a creature draw, which is, as I've found, their easiest way to win quickly, and is even something that goes hand in hand with their gameplan anyhow.

I tend to board pretty aggressive. The most important thing in the MU is imho which kind of "vibe" your opponent gives you, because they can play a controlvariant or more aggressiv, so my boarding tends to vary very much. I also like boarding out all Terminus when I feel he's going for the control variant and boarding out at least some Goyfs.
While I agree that Snapcaster is very important in the matchup, I don't like it because I bring in RiP most of the time and an early DRS can greatly diminish the value you get out of your Snap. So I feel that the third Mage will bring it's value only at the latter game stages, for which I do have enough power already.
I think you are underestimating Venser though. He's not only there for the dream, he can also bounce Visions and is pretty much removalproof.
For the Tundra, the deck runs fine with 20 lands, at GP Lille, I boarded down to 19 when not playing against Wasteland. Obv, Shardless does have them, but the point is that they don't have taxing counters to punish you for getting wasted. So in the later stages of the game I don't want to draw that land. As you've correctly stated, the game is a grind and the smallest mistake can and will get you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

I tend to board pretty aggressive. The most important thing in the MU is imho which kind of "vibe" your opponent gives you, because they can play a controlvariant or more aggressiv, so my boarding tends to vary very much. I also like boarding out all Terminus when I feel he's going for the control variant and boarding out at least some Goyfs.
While I agree that Snapcaster is very important in the matchup, I don't like it because I bring in RiP most of the time and an early DRS can greatly diminish the value you get out of your Snap. So I feel that the third Mage will bring it's value only at the latter game stages, for which I do have enough power already.
I think you are underestimating Venser though. He's not only there for the dream, he can also bounce Visions and is pretty much removalproof.
For the Tundra, the deck runs fine with 20 lands, at GP Lille, I boarded down to 19 when not playing against Wasteland. Obv, Shardless does have them, but the point is that they don't have taxing counters to punish you for getting wasted. So in the later stages of the game I don't want to draw that land. As you've correctly stated, the game is a grind and the smallest mistake can and will get you.

---

I understand your position - I also board lands when not pressures, but I want to be able to do more things per turn, meaning to be proactive, I think than you favour. Yeah, Vensor likely warrants higher ratings than I give it, but I think that card is close to unplayable. I would much rather have the 4rd REB over the first vensor, if it's meant for Visions.

I think Snapcaster is your best card. Besides that, I would want to get rid of the Shaman ASAP. I don't think any BUG Players actually board Goyf, as their late-game, as you mention, aren't as strong as ours and Goyf really puts you to the test. I haven't played with any (decent) pilots doing that, at least, as Deathrite > Goyf + Discard is an insanely strong opening, and will leave you dead unless you find something quick. They can easily overrun you, if you can't catch back up, as all their cards basically guarantees card-advatage, which for me, makes me want to be able to match this - This is also why it's mood dependant, if I keep in Cbalance or not, as well as skill level on opponents side of the table. I would much rather have the 3rd snapcaster over the 1st Rest in Peace, if it comes to that, to be honest.

Regarding lands; Yeah. Boarding out lands is pretty much what you wanna be doing in the mirror, vs combo etc anyhow. I just don't like it versus a deck playing 3 wastelands.

Venser is one the best card of the deck if you play the heavy Legendary build with many Caverns and Karakas.


It's pathetic in our builds instead..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poron

Venser is one the best card of the deck if you play the heavy Legendary build with many Caverns and Karakas.


It's pathetic in our builds instead..

---

And what experience does make you say that?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

And what experience does make you say that?

---

It's Poron. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poron

Venser is one the best card of the deck if you play the heavy Legendary build with many Caverns and Karakas.


It's pathetic in our builds instead..

---

Even without Karakas, you can bounce your Venser with a Jace. Slow, but sometimes you need to get it done.

I prefer to bounce Snapmage with Jace (yes, I am playing it as well since the drop of blasts around)

We the Americans have finally caught on to the Europeans.

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...reakdown_.html

19% of the Day 2 field Baby~

http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...decklists.html

11 Miracles pilots out of top 32.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Poron

I prefer to bounce Snapmage with Jace (yes, I am playing it as well since the drop of blasts around)

---

Venser is godly. Why waste a -1 on a lowly snap. Unless you are already losing

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cfetchcaviar

Venser is godly. Why waste a -1 on a lowly snap. Unless you are already losing

---

It's quite obviously situation dependend.

yup, but normally it's better to Karakas Venser..

I wouldn't play Venser without it.. Clique is different, it can swing and has the flying evasion. Venser instead is really an expensive boomerang without Karakas

This past weekend I played Ponder Miracles at SCG:NJ finishing 11-4 for 18th place. I have been playing Miracles exclusively for the past two years in Legacy and recently shifted to the Ponder version of the deck. I wrote an article discussing how to approach many of the commonly played matchups. I would be interested in knowing your thoughts and different opinions in regards to sideboarding.

https://jefffolinus.wordpress.com/20...y-the-matchups

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gekoratel

This past weekend I played Ponder Miracles at SCG:NJ finishing 11-4 for 18th place. I have been playing Miracles exclusively for the past two years in Legacy and recently shifted to the Ponder version of the deck. I wrote an article discussing how to approach many of the commonly played matchups. I would be interested in knowing your thoughts and different opinions in regards to sideboarding.

https://jefffolinus.wordpress.com/20...y-the-matchups

---

While the overall article is quite nice and detailed, some of your sideboard decisions seem to be rather strange.

Against Elves:

Not boarding in Wear / Tear just seems plain wrong as they can and will bring in Needle, Null Rod and Sylvan Library, which you have to kill (the last one asap). I'd throw out Judgment, as Elves is a matchup that can go terrible wrong if you tap out too early. Also, instead of -Ponder you should probably board out a land, as Miracles will run just fine with 20 lands against non-Wasteland decks.

Against ANT:

Staticaster does the same as Terminus, only that it also pitches to Force (which can be backbreaking). Throwing out Snapcaster is the absolute mistake imho. Even if you board your one RiP, you want a Snap most of the time. Not only does it beat for two pretty early on, it can also recycle a discarded counter. Again, Judgement seems pretty bad, as well as the 2nd Terminus. If you don't want to cut them, don't board Pyroblast as they are not needed most of the time.

Against Delver:

Why board out Counterspell? FoW is pretty bad here as you don't want card disadvantage. And while Counterspell is more vulnerable to their softcounters, it will give you an additional 2 on CB and will be better the longer the game progresses. Also, more Pyroblasts, not only do they counter their counters, they also kill Delvers. And also, don't board out those Snaps. I'd never go below 2 in any matchup.

Against Miracle:

The only number of Terminus acceptable after boarding is 0. Same with StP.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

Against Miracle:

The only number of Terminus acceptable after boarding is 0. Same with StP.

---

So in a MU where you expect your opponent to be boarding in more threats, you say to take out all of your removal for said threats?

Having 3 Terminus seems really awkward. Myself, I go for a 3-2 split (StP - Teminus), sometimes 2-2 or even 2-1 if I'm familiar with my opponent's list. But being able to wipe an ETA or a mass of Monk tokens is insane. Taking out all creature removal is just asking to get destroyed by an ETA for 3, even 2. Same goes for Mentor, and even more so when his list is rather creature-light.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mort-

While the overall article is quite nice and detailed, some of your sideboard decisions seem to be rather strange.

Against Elves:

Not boarding in Wear / Tear just seems plain wrong as they can and will bring in Needle, Null Rod and Sylvan Library, which you have to kill (the last one asap). I'd throw out Judgment, as Elves is a matchup that can go terrible wrong if you tap out too early. Also, instead of -Ponder you should probably board out a land, as Miracles will run just fine with 20 lands against non-Wasteland decks.

Against ANT:

Staticaster does the same as Terminus, only that it also pitches to Force (which can be backbreaking). Throwing out Snapcaster is the absolute mistake imho. Even if you board your one RiP, you want a Snap most of the time. Not only does it beat for two pretty early on, it can also recycle a discarded counter. Again, Judgement seems pretty bad, as well as the 2nd Terminus. If you don't want to cut them, don't board Pyroblast as they are not needed most of the time.

Against Delver:

Why board out Counterspell? FoW is pretty bad here as you don't want card disadvantage. And while Counterspell is more vulnerable to their softcounters, it will give you an additional 2 on CB and will be better the longer the game progresses. Also, more Pyroblasts, not only do they counter their counters, they also kill Delvers. And also, don't board out those Snaps. I'd never go below 2 in any matchup.

Against Miracle:

The only number of Terminus acceptable after boarding is 0. Same with StP.

---

Thanks for your suggestions, against Elves you are probably correct to board in Wear//Tear since most builds have many of the cards listed but due to this I think leaving in Judgement to have 2 answers makes sense, tapping out isn't great but so long as you have a Force or CB online shouldn't be too bad. I'm not comfortable boarding down to 20 lands but could experiment.

Against ANT the Snaps haven't impressed me as much because if you don't draw Flusterstorm or Counterspell there isn't anything else great to get back but maybe just cycling brainstorms EOT is enough to warrant keeping 1. I saw some people boarding in Staticaster which makes sense as answer to EtW and slow answer to Xantid Swarm. I just don't like that if they see it with Probe/discard they will never commit to EtW and with Terminus you can get them more but I like the idea especially that it is blue and less dead when you draw.

Against Delver I think Counterspell is rather poor because often their threats get under and like you said turns on their soft counterspells. I'd rather focus more on stopping threats in play then your opponent from casting, having less 2 CMC is unfortunate but against many Delver variants you are bringing in RiP to balance out some. The REB effects while powerful open you up more to Wasteland, with a build that has Mountain I'd be more confident boarding in additional copies but as it is prefer to fetch basics whenever possible and minimize splash for 1-2 REBs and Blood Moon. I think your probably correct about Snap even when bringing in RiP as can potentially get value after they kill with Decay etc.

For the mirror match I'm pretty sure you want at least 2 Terminus in the deck, my sideboard doesn't have much else to bring in for the mirror so could see -1 Terminus +1 Flusterstorm but I don't like bringing in cards like Meddling Mage for this MU.