Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
From what I know (I've rarely played Canadian) Goblins should be one of your worst matchups.
Dredge should be OK like most combo decks.
I don't know anything about Elves matchup.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SansSerif
From what I know (I've rarely played Canadian) Goblins should be one of your worst matchups.
Dredge should be OK like most combo decks.
I don't know anything about Elves matchup.
From my experience with RUG, Goblins is manageable if you hit plenty of Bolts and Stifles and deliver early Delver beats. It's not going to be easy, but with tight play it's not too bad. Remember to keep in FoW when on the draw. You definitely want to counter that turn 1 Vial.
Dredge on the other hand is a miserable match up and it depends on how many dedicated gravehate slots you have on your sideboard. Following today's trends many people don't pack enough gravehate to turn that match up into a positive one.
Elves has been an ok to favorable match up for me. Counterspells and burn are valuable plus Roughs after boarding. Experience is key here as well. You really need to know what to counter and when to burn creatures.
You need to be the beatdown in Goblins mu, or they just slowly overrun you with CA and with superiror threat density. Stifle is amazing here, because it turns their dudes into 1/1 and 2/2 for three or four mana. Also, the more Bolts you play, the better, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by anakyn
Dredge in fact is amazingly awful matchup. Compering it to normal combo decks is not right. Once they resolve one discard outlet, they simply don't need to care of our countermagic, we have very few ways how to remove Bridges, they may chumpblock Goyfs for whole eternity, it's hard to run them of creatures, our mere one or two gy hate slots are no match for their deck, they play about twelve Ancestrals, their DDD grinding plan is hard to stop, Ichorid-Therapy-zombie makes them loads of small annoying creatures while it devastates our hand. In fact Dredge is a deck designed to beat blue decks, and as such, it is pretty good against RUG. Fortunately it's extinct and moreoverit's pretty hard to play well after sb.
Elves are quite good if you play at least two Roughs, just watch for the must-counter spells.
Went 4-3 this weekend at Grand Prix DC getting my third loss at round 7 to elves. My sideboard consisted of 1 Zuran Orb, 1 Life from the loam, 3 submerge, 2 rough/tumble, 1 ancient grudge, 1 krosan grip, 1 Grafdiggers Cage, 2 REB, 1 VClique, 1 Flusterstorm, 1 Sulfur Elemental. My losses of the day were against some monoblack reanimater storm deck, uwr patriot this loss I went down to 5 cards bc I didn't draw lands in my first 7 and 6 hands, for two games in a row. Was a real shitty way to lose for my second loss in round 5. My final loss was to elves I managed to beat him the second game with rough/tumble and smash with goyf and goose. The game three he beat me with a natural order into craterhoof. The Zuran Orb came in handy against a U/R delver match which won me the game to him. If I was to change the board I would run 2 submerge and add maybe a 3rd rough/tumble after losing to elves or a Pithing Needle. I did play against a u/w stoneblade with TNN and crushed him 2-0. If you play the control part to this match-up you will win. Also never over extended to it otherwise supreme verdict will come down. Overall my experience at DC was a good one for it being my first Grand Prix, where I have played countless SCG Opens. I plan to continue playing RUG Delver after this. I wouldn't change my maindeck I switched out forked bolt for fire/ice Friday night and found it to be better and always using it either fire or ice. Git Probe I still have mixed feelings on it, I only ran two maindeck and boarded them out all day but I do feel they were great for the Grand Prix as an opener to play delver or stifle.
I agree that Stifle is a key card to beating Goblins. Don't make the mistake of using Stifle on their fetches. This is usually a waste of the card, unless you've seen them miss a land drop (without a Vial on board) or otherwise know you can mana-screw them. Stifle is far more effective against Matron and Ringleader (and occasionally SGC, Incinerator, Piledriver trigger, etc.). Use your burn spells on their Piledrivers, Warchiefs, and Chieftains. Your creatures are very strong against Goblins. Goose and Goyf live while killing most Goblins that slam into them, while Delver is unblockable. This matchup was very favorable until the printing of Cavern of Souls, which makes it easier for them to resolve spells. Another key to winning this matchup is to mulligan any hand in which you do not have an answer to a turn one Lackey. If you can cast a Goose or a burn spell on turn one, you are probably good to go.
If you want to shore up both Elves and Dredge matchups, Grafdigger's Cage. As an Elves player, few things annoy me as much as a Cage on the board. Imagine someone turning all your cantrips into blanks. That's what it feels like playing vs. Cage. That is to say, please burn all Grafdigger's Cages you encounter, we will reward you handsomely.
Sadface. It happens quite often, after all, we play just 14 sources of blue, so the number of mulligans is a bit higher than I like.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyKapree
I think I'll switch to F/I , the utility is fine, we already have ways how to stop turn1 DRS and on the play F/I is not that bad.
Yes. Also Stifle is pretty good against their Wastelads, as Goblins fire them like crazy, always having either Vial or Lackey or Chieftain to cheat with mana. I side out most of the counterspells, because they can't reliably hit anything relevant (with all the Caverns, Vials and such); I may just keep few counterspells when there's nothing more to sb in or when I fear black splashed things like Perish or Edict.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
Rough is no-brainer.
Grudges are fine against Vials and Relics. (Note how Stifle hits the annoying Relic.)
Sulfur Elementlas block and attack. It's quite a useful ability.
Needle stops Vial, SGC and Port. The latter is pretty annoying when the opponent deprives you of green lands for your critters.
Yes. I would play Cage, but there's no grave deck in our meta and just an Elf or two, so I'm fine without it, but I wouldn't burn them yet.... :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie
Btw, a small note on Dredge matchup: as we all know, it's prety important to counter/hit their discard outlets. Never forget about Colliseum, as it also works as a draw enabler. Stifle is fine and so is Needle.
Hey folks, as a long-time tempo decks player I am asking myself whether we play the right mana base in RUG Delver.
We all know that our mana base can sometimes be not very stable, especially versus Dnt - a deck that plays Wastelands *and* Ports. The mana screw plan is the second most important plan versus our deck.
With that in mind I think this mana base that I am now trying is worth a look:
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
1 Taiga
1 Basic Island
We still have 18 lands, 3 red producing duals, now even 4 green producing ones. You can now fetch for Taiga and Basic Island an are able to cast *every* spell in the deck with these two lands. Basic Island dodges Wastelands and can help us to let our cnatrips stay always alive to find more lands in times where it is needed.
Opinions on that?
I don't know,would have to test a lot,but on first thought: even if you become wasteland proof,d&t can tap your island and then you just have access to red or green. Of courseonly as long as you play with only 2 lands in play
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Well you can always take the blue mana in your pool in the upkeep if you get ported and therefore use your cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzkreuz
Use brainstorm yes,but not ponder. As I said I won't say you are wrong,as I haven't played the deck long enough to say sth like that,I am just not convinced yet
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I wouldn't play this over the regular 8 fetches, 6 duals manabase. For one thing, the suggestion above has one fewer fetchland, meaning Brainstorm will be worse, Mongoose will be worse and Ponder will be worse to an extent. Also, any hand with Taiga, Wasteland and five spells is auto-mull, while a hand with Volcanic/Tropical, Wasteland and 5 spells is fine if there's a Delver and/or a cantrip or two.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
Considering RUGs extremely low mana curve, any land in hand means access to all but four spells in the deck, as long as it's a fetch land or a Tropical, and access to all but eight spells if it's any non-Wasteland land. Thus, I don't think that Port is that great against us, lord knows I've hated that card when playing against DnT with other decks, and it does hurt a lot if he has a Thalia in play, but then again - with Thalia and a Port in play, I don't think that the lone Island will do anything.
The main reason Island and Taiga really suck (because they do), is that even though you have access to all 3 colors with these lands, you still control a target for opposing wastelands. And, once you get hit, you're down to one again and you will need both a volcanic and a tropical to get back up to all three. This is where some might argue that "well, I still have an untouchable Island for cantrips". I am fine with cantripping for lands pretty much once each game in the first turns, but if that's what I am still doing in the midgame, then I am probably already half-way to a loss.
My opinion is this:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
As I already stated, I played anything from 8/6 fetches/duals through 7/7 or even 6/8 f/d. At one moment in time when our lgs was full of decks with Stifles and Wastelands, I even played an extreme version of this deck that packed eight duals, three Raiforests, two Foothills, plus one of Island and Forest. Yes, Mongoose was very slow and yes, BS wasn't at its best, but the mere fact that I sidestepped the usual problems was worthy it.
But it was different time! I wouldn't use it today. But if your meta is full of Wastelands, Stifles, Blood Moons and even Life from the Loam, than this lands' structure is pretty resilient.
Speaking less strictly about metagame things: I would hesitate to play with mere thirteen blue sources. Waste-only mullians are already too usual and I don't wanna increase their percentage. Taiga doesn't dodge anything (be it moon effect or Waste), doesn't pay for Daze and is only good in that it casts all non-cantrip spells. If I'd wish to include non-blue land, then I'd definitely do this only at the expense of adding the nineteenth land (no matter if I'd go to 61 or if I shave the worst of the 60 cards for it) and in fact the only manabase I may think of now (other than Moon Thresh structure) is this:
4 Rainforest
3 Foothills
3 Trop
3 Volc
1 Island
1 Forest
4 Waste
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purgatory
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizzly_Bear
Island isn't bad, but it has its limits. And if you're in such extremely hostile meta that warrants Island and that punishes even RUG (with it's low mana curve and playset of Stifles), you should consider another deck, maybe.
Not to mention that if you play Island, you ultimately need three lands to have access to all your spells (or Island plus Taiga, but it's an awful combination).
Simply put: although I do understand that colored mana requirements and low count of blue-producing lands are chokepoints of the deck, I don't see a way how to improve this liability and the best thing to do is to use the most powerful and flexible combination of either 8/6 or 7/7 of fetches/duals.
I am convinced by your arguments.
A friend of mine, a well-known RUG Delver player in Germany, always tells me to run 8 Duals. That feels really clunky. But the 8-dual land configuration wins the mirror.
Yeah, I can see that. I haven't played much vs RUG with the 8/6 f/d configuration, but I have played a lot vs UWr, and it's always a struggle to resolve the fetch lands if you're on the draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
Imao 7/7 is the best for the heavy mirrored meta, with the 4th Trop been the 7th dual - you really need to have that green mana for your creatures.
Even anything funny like 7/7 plus Forest (because Goyfs and Mongooses rule) or the other way around with 7/7 plus Island (because cantrips rule) might work. But for a blind meta I'd go with a default 8/6 in fetchlands/duals.
Hey guys,
How does a typical Canadian Thresh 75 looks like?
Also, would you sideboard against a Chalice deck?
Thanks in advance
I'm suddenly interested of BURG lists, occasionally because of the SB choices for TNN, e.g. Golgari Charm, Toxic Deluge.
I only know the Deathrite Canadian list from Edman Leung, who placed 5th in SCG Milwaukee (see: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=5813&d=233778). Are there more lists that proved successful?
I think it's a nice consideration splashing B into the RUG shell for better SBoarding and access to DS/Decay. Although the manabase is pretty sensitive, I'm gonna do this. Perhaps i'll do a 6/8 (fetches/duals, lands) split to grade this up.
Here's my list and SB plan:Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
4 Waste
8 Fetch
3 Trop
3 Volc
4 Delver
4 Goose
4 Goyf
4 Bolt
1 F Bolt
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Gitaxian Probe
2 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 FoW
SB
3 Pyroblast
3 Submerge
2 Rough
1 Spell Pierce
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Sulfur Elemental
Against Chalice MUD decks you are probably boarding out Stifles for Spell Pierce, Ancient Grudge, Pithing Needle and Life from the Loam. Cut a Mongoose for a Clique to diversify the casting cost of your threats as well.