[Deck] The Rock

Here's a Lingering Souls build list I've been fiddling around with:

// Lands
1 [SOM] Plains (3)
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [U] Bayou
3 [B] Scrubland
1 [5E] Swamp (1)
2 [R] Savannah
4 [MPR] Wasteland
1 [LG] Karakas
3 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [M13] Forest (3)
2 [ZEN] Marsh Flats

// Creatures
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
4 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
3 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
4 [DKA] Lingering Souls
3 [JU] Cabal Therapy
2 [V09] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [NPH] Batterskull

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 2 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 [RTR] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [SOM] Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 [ALA] Tidehollow Sculler
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [9E] Circle of Protection: Red
SB: 1 [ISD] Nevermore

Some thoughts:

All the best 2-drops: So I wanted to try playing a build with pretty much all the best 2 drops in MTG. Batterskull is a huge pain for Jund to deal with and Tarmogoyf helps keep you alive against fast aggressive decks. Bob, of course, is amazing against the control decks.
Top over Sylvan Library: I've always been a huge fan of Sylvan Library, but in today's meta with all the Abrupt Decay's all over the place, I wanted my card filtering spell to be protected from AD. I'd love to be able to fit a 3rd Top in there somewhere.
Lingering Souls over KoTR: As much as I love the flexibility that Knight gives us, I think Lingering Souls is too strong right now, especially against Jund and control decks. Having SFM + Cabal Therapy really makes Lingering Souls more powerful than in any other deck.

This build is considerably weaker than the KoTR builds against the Show & Tell decks, which I tried to shore up with a little more targeted discard in the main combined with the faster eTutor board packing O-Rings, Pithing Needle, and Nevermore. I've always loved the flexibility of the eTutor board, so I went back to playing it.

Sculler was also something I wanted to try in the sideboard as a pseudo hate bear since I can't consistently get Teeg out due to no GSZ.

The build has been playing pretty well in testing so far though so I thought I'd post it up here to give people some more ideas in a slightly different direction to go.

The SFM version seems decently positioned, in all honesty. I doubt SFM is going to survive to untap, but having a Batterskull against Jund is pretty darn good. Let us know how the testing goes.

-Matt

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sdematt

The SFM version seems decently positioned, in all honesty. I doubt SFM is going to survive to untap, but having a Batterskull against Jund is pretty darn good. Let us know how the testing goes.

-Matt

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It's been interesting so far. I definitely miss the flexibility of GSZ sometimes, but being able to just keep throwing bombs has been pretty fun as well. Against Jund, sometimes I'll even lead off with a Tarmogoyf (say if there's only Land in the yard) to try and bait out a Lightning Bolt just so I can try and stick a Dark Confidant or SFM on the next turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

It's been interesting so far. I definitely miss the flexibility of GSZ sometimes, but being able to just keep throwing bombs has been pretty fun as well. Against Jund, sometimes I'll even lead off with a Tarmogoyf (say if there's only Land in the yard) to try and bait out a Lightning Bolt just so I can try and stick a Dark Confidant or SFM on the next turn.

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Sounds like you have learned how to bait spells/creatures viz a viz Maverick.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Sounds like you have learned how to bait spells/creatures viz a viz Maverick.

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Hah yeah it's sad when Tarmogoyf is the most expendable 2 drop in the deck. Gotta next level those red players and bait out those Bolts!

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

Hah yeah it's sad when Tarmogoyf is the most expendable 2 drop in the deck. Gotta next level those red players and bait out those Bolts!

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That's my favorite part about Tarmogoyf: zero shits given. He's big, he's scary and completely disposable.

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Originally Posted by Barbed Blightning

That's my favorite part about Tarmogoyf: zero shits given. He's big, he's scary and completely disposable.

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Honestly, while I love the Rock / Junk, part of me plays this deck based on the level of pimping I can do on it and it gives me a project to work on.

I know Matt probably gets this, but it's awesome when you fetch out a beta Dual and people assume it's FBB... then they look at it again and do a double take...

Gave the list a shot on about 2 hours of sleep. I liked it. The Geist never really got a chance to be. I may want it over the goyf. There wasn't really a time that I got a chance to distinguish a differrence (crazy I know) and I think that having the little bit extra on the Geist's numbers may give that little bit of chance needed to see it in action a better.

I loaded up my old computer so I was able to record the daily matches (went 2-2 again) and uploaded them to Youtube (link's in my sig if you're interested).

Matches were against:
Hivemind - 2-1
Sneak/Show - 0-2 (Sigarda tried but I couldn't follow up)
Maverick - 2-? (I forgot if they got one)
Esper - 0-2 (boarding glitches again)

I was able to recover in the two man queues afterwards (Still couldn't sleep). seems to be the way to go for me. Oddly enough I'm able to run over the storm based combo decks but I'm starting to lose to the SnT based ones.

Queue 1 - Esper Stoneblade - 1-0 (7 minutes left on my clock and lilana (8) vs active jace (1), next draw would've been geist)
Queue 2 - Enchantress (U/G) - 2-0 (This match is awesome)
Queue 3 - Burn - 1-2 (I got burned)
Queue 4 - Burn - 2-0 (Shamans took game 1, Timely saved me game 2)
Queue 5 - TES - 2-1 (Lots of Discard)
Queue 6 - Lands - 2-0 (deathrite + Strangleroot vs Tabernacle + Loam)
Queue 7 - Omnishow - 2-1 (Sigarda into Karakas pulled it out both games)

Going to try and get a couple more recorded soon so others can see what I'm seeing and perhaps get some info on their thoughts.

@Esper3K

I was working on a similar list after reading Lavafrogg's list - replacing knights with souls, then I wanted Jitte and SOFI, then it evolved int opretty much your list - but I run only 22 lands, 2 lilianas and a different discard suite (3 seize 2 iok).

Do you miss liliana?
Are therapies good enough? I reckon that once stoneforge did her job she's also therapy fodder, but is this (and tokens) enough?

Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sughayyer

@Esper3K

I was working on a similar list after reading Lavafrogg's list - replacing knights with souls, then I wanted Jitte and SOFI, then it evolved int opretty much your list - but I run only 22 lands, 2 lilianas and a different discard suite (3 seize 2 iok).

Do you miss liliana?
Are therapies good enough? I reckon that once stoneforge did her job she's also therapy fodder, but is this (and tokens) enough?

Thanks!

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I'm currently running 23 lands just because SFM + Equipment can get mana intensive as well as constantly dumping mana into Top (I'm not opposed to going down to 22 though).

I have never really liked Liliana in Junk. All of our cards are generally really good so her +1 can oftentimes be pretty bad for yourself. We usually have plenty of removal as well so her -2 usually isn't as important as in other decks. Also in this particular list I've been playing, I'm trying to stay away from BB/GG/WW spells if I can to make it easier on your manabase.

I've always been a huge fan of Cabal Therapy, probably too much so. It's always been one of those cards where I feel if you're really good at playing it, it's amazing even on the blind Therapy where your skill really comes in. As you said, usually with SFM once you've gotten your equipment down, you can typically afford it to Therapy if you need to. Therapy with Lingering Souls alone is usually good enough though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Esper3k

I'm currently running 23 lands just because SFM + Equipment can get mana intensive as well as constantly dumping mana into Top (I'm not opposed to going down to 22 though).

I have never really liked Liliana in Junk. All of our cards are generally really good so her +1 can oftentimes be pretty bad for yourself. We usually have plenty of removal as well so her -2 usually isn't as important as in other decks. Also in this particular list I've been playing, I'm trying to stay away from BB/GG/WW spells if I can to make it easier on your manabase.

I've always been a huge fan of Cabal Therapy, probably too much so. It's always been one of those cards where I feel if you're really good at playing it, it's amazing even on the blind Therapy where your skill really comes in. As you said, usually with SFM once you've gotten your equipment down, you can typically afford it to Therapy if you need to. Therapy with Lingering Souls alone is usually good enough though.

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Man, Lingering Souls has been fucking amazing. From fucking over Liliana +1's and -2's to shredding an opponent with Cabal Therapy, I'm honestly loving it. Lingering Souls is so good against random aggro, RUG, Goblins, Esper, etc. I really love the card right now.

My favourite play with Cabal Therapy right now is T1 Bayou, GSZ for 0. Pass. Untap, play land and Cabal Therapy, sac Arbor after tapping for mana, Goyf. So sick.

I like Liliana right now (I've been running her in Jund testing and she's very good) because of the fact she can be a Turn-2 Planeswalker, but I also love GSZ. GSZ is so fucking brutal in fetching Knights against Jund, or even just Tracker in the creature matchups and then you just dominate them. Again, loving it. Problem is, there's hardly room for a deck with 3 Liliana, 3 Souls, and 3 GSZ if you still want to have Knights and hand disruption. Knight is really good, but if you wanted to, you could cut it for Liliana and then have the best of everything, but then your creature count is a bit low (4 DRS 4 Confidant 3 Goyf 1 Ooze).

Also, I'm on reading break now (with nothing to read), so I'll be grinding out an article probably about sideboarding, Jund, Esper, and the like.

-Matt

So you basically swapped in Lingering Souls for Liliana while maintaining Knights and GSZ? Have a list handy?

Matt, I've been running a slightly altered version of a recent build of yours:

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
3 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman

2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
3 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay

2 Sylvan Library

I don't have room for Liliana, but I like how it's been running so far. This was pretty much your list, but I took out the Pulses and Garruk for Lingering Souls. I could shave a creature here or there, but I really like having a 16 count creature threat base + more "threats" in GSZ and Souls.

@Arsenal
I like your list and am going to ry it with theses changes.

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savanah
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith

4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman

4 Thoughtseize
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lingering Souls
2 Green Sun's Zenith

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay

2 Sylvan Library

Lily is good but idk if Souls would be better. Here is a possible board with that list:
2 Ooze of Scavenging the yard
2 P. Deed
2 G. Charm (kills enchantments/survives board wipes besides terminus/killls goblin tokens and elves)
3 Hymn (FUUUUUU COMBO)
2 Surgical (COMBO)
2 Teeg
2 Deathmark (so many green/black decks)

sorry for organization and spelling. I sent this on iphone.

I think if you're going to run GSZ, you want to run Dryad Arbor to give yourself the chance of turn 1 accel. Even if you cut GSZ to 2 copies, and the likelihood isn't that great you'll see 1 in your opening hand, you should still have Dryad Arbor in there as a potential mana accel, a surprise KotR activated blocker/attacker, a surprise fetchland blocker/attacker.

For those running Lingering Souls, ever thought of squeezing in a 1-of Sorin, Lord of Innistrad? The +1/+0 to your creatures drastically alters combat math (and you don't get hosed to single spot removal like you do with Elspeth's pump+jump ability) and the other two abilities seem relevant (1/1 chumper to protect himself, gain a bit of life here and there, and being able to destroy opposing planeswalkers seems better than making your stuff indestructible). I've been eyeing that guy FOREVER to use in a deck.

I'm running:

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
3 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
3 Bayou
2 Scrubland
1 Savannah

3 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Dark Confidant
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Tarmogoyf
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Green Sun's Zenith

3 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize

3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Sylvan Library
3 Lingering Souls

--BOARD--

2 Pithing Needle
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Gaddock Teeg
(rest is in flux)

-Matt

Anyone playing souls needs to strongly consider having 3 slots in the board for jittes. It is so strong in so many matches, especially the deathrite battles that exist right now.

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Originally Posted by lavafrogg

Anyone playing souls needs to strongly consider having 3 slots in the board for jittes. It is so strong in so many matches, especially the deathrite battles that exist right now.

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I think I can one-up that: play at least 1 jitte, a pair of Enlightented Tutors, and Deed/Needle/Canonist/O-Ring. Like a boss...

Regarding Lingering Souls...I don't know, I just can't get behind it. I know how good it is, and I have 2 of them now, but I am trying to work the NO-Pro plan right now. I worry about taking 10 with Bob...but I might do the sideboard swap (bob maindeck, NO-Pro sideboard and swap g2.) It seems to make sense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

I think I can one-up that: play at least 1 jitte, a pair of Enlightented Tutors, and Deed/Needle/Canonist/O-Ring. Like a boss...

Regarding Lingering Souls...I don't know, I just can't get behind it. I know how good it is, and I have 2 of them now, but I am trying to work the NO-Pro plan right now. I worry about taking 10 with Bob...but I might do the sideboard swap (bob maindeck, NO-Pro sideboard and swap g2.) It seems to make sense.

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The only thing I'm worried about there is it getting countered and you getting super fucked by it.

Who else will be playing The Rock at Edison tomorrow? And who else will join me in writing "Dwayne Johnson" for deck name and "Dwayne Johnson" for deck designer?

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Originally Posted by Kich867

The only thing I'm worried about there is it getting countered and you getting super fucked by it.

Who else will be playing The Rock at Edison tomorrow? And who else will join me in writing "Dwayne Johnson" for deck name and "Dwayne Johnson" for deck designer?

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If you're referring to NO-Pro, it isn't for blue decks. Maindeck traditional Rock is better at battling those decks. NO-Pro is to fuck up Goblins, Jund, and lots of other fair decks. I think putting Jund on a 2-turn clock is pretty much game. Rather than trade 1-for-1, which Jund does almost as good as Rock, sometimes better, I'd rather just WIN. Sideboard out Bobs to limit life loss and stretch the game out(still have the 3x Sylvan Library for card quality/advantage, they only play one the chumps...).

If you're referring to Enlightened Tutor, I'm not sure I understand. Being able to play it a EOT is pretty good and providing the deck with some great flexibility. That flexibility attached to the already strong disruption suite in the maindeck should be potent. I'm fairly certain the ETutor sideboard plan is proven tech, too. I've seen it in a few times, even in lists on this thread (I think.)