[Deck] Affinity

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Originally Posted by Pltnmngl

Confidant replaces Thoughtcast, so you shouldn't have to choose.

This list is getting pretty tight right now. I'm don't like the idea of having multiple Moxes with no sac outlet in hand.

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Nothing replaces Thoughtcast. That card is a 4-of and each list with fewer than 4 is not optimal. drawing two cards for 1 mana is a lot better than confidant, especially as this deck doesn't appreciate non-artifact permanents.

And as for Moxes, I basically agree. That's why I will probably use 3, not 4. But still 4 is possible. It's really hard to decide for a card, which ypou want to see in your opening hand but which you don't want to have more than once per game.

@ Royal Ass: As far as Etched Champion is concerned I would use it only in the sideboard. There are only a couple of decks he's really strong against, namely aggro decks like Bant, Merfolk, Zoo and Goblins. Against other decks he's just too slow with 3 mana 2/2 and his Pro can't make up for that. Also it competes with Master for the CMC 3 slot and I don't think that Affinity can run more than 4-5 CMC 3 cards main (and I'd really not cut Masters fpr Champion).

And Confidant seems good on paper but in parctise it is rather disappointing in Affinity. It is a great draw engine for faster Control decks like CounterTop and for slower Aggro decks like Rock. But for Affinity it is really too slow. Affinity can (and has to) win incredibly fast, which is its biggest selling point. Confidant is a card that would try to imprve the deck's midgame. This is pretty useless because we will be pretty much dead if it comes to the midgame anyway. No Bob will prevent that. Thoughtcast is the only draw spell that is efficient, explosive and reliable enough to fit this deck.

In my current build I'm actually torn between Arcbound Worker and Frogmite. Memnite is rather untouchable with Mox Opal in the list, and with Ravager, Overseer and Shrapnel Blast all in it Modular already looking better than a meager +1/+1. The mana cost is pretty inconsequential as I only run 7 1cc spells anyway with Springleaf being mana neutral with a free critter and Galvanic being bombier later on anyway in most to all situations (except maybe goblins on the play). That, and a 2/2 is about as outclassed as a 1/1 in most situations anyway so I might as well go for the overall tricksyness factor to compensate (I've won a few races off chumping off something big with ravager and moving the counters to a flyer). Anyone else has any experience with this?

Also @cutting the 1-mana 2-for-1: no. Confidant is slow, susceptible to removal (which is a concern since it's such a tempo sink early on) and bad versus aggro decks.

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Originally Posted by Izor

Nothing replaces Thoughtcast. That card is a 4-of and each list with fewer than 4 is not optimal. drawing two cards for 1 mana is a lot better than confidant, especially as this deck doesn't appreciate non-artifact permanents.

And as for Moxes, I basically agree. That's why I will probably use 3, not 4. But still 4 is possible. It's really hard to decide for a card, which ypou want to see in your opening hand but which you don't want to have more than once per game.

@ Royal Ass: As far as Etched Champion is concerned I would use it only in the sideboard. There are only a couple of decks he's really strong against, namely aggro decks like Bant, Merfolk, Zoo and Goblins. Against other decks he's just too slow with 3 mana 2/2 and his Pro can't make up for that. Also it competes with Master for the CMC 3 slot and I don't think that Affinity can run more than 4-5 CMC 3 cards main (and I'd really not cut Masters fpr Champion).

And Confidant seems good on paper but in parctise it is rather disappointing in Affinity. It is a great draw engine for faster Control decks like CounterTop and for slower Aggro decks like Rock. But for Affinity it is really too slow. Affinity can (and has to) win incredibly fast, which is its biggest selling point. Confidant is a card that would try to imprve the deck's midgame. This is pretty useless because we will be pretty much dead if it comes to the midgame anyway. No Bob will prevent that. Thoughtcast is the only draw spell that is efficient, explosive and reliable enough to fit this deck.

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While I agree, I think that if someone is going to run Confidant, Thoughtcast has to go. I don't plan on running him, but I can see a meta where he could work.

Bob's give the deck some redundancy... for hands where you drop everything by turn two and id much rather have a bob and thoughtcasts in the deck to know I'm refilling my hand with threats. The list im running had 4 gblasts, 2sblasts also.

if you are running bobs with no lifegain, i wouldn't be putting frogmites in the deck.

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Originally Posted by adamt

if you are running bobs with no lifegain, i wouldn't be putting frogmites in the deck.

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Which is another reason not to run Bobs. Thoughtcast, Frogmite and even Myr Enforcer simply belong into this deck and a card that forces us to remove our Affinity cards (what's the deck called again?) can't help it. IF one really wants to build an artifact based Aggro deck with Confidant, that's fine, but without Thoughtcast, Frogmite and Enforcer there is no point in discussing that deck in this thread.

Dark Confidant has been an absolute house in every single game i've played with him in affinity. I took out Myr Enforcer, blasphemy, I know, and put Confidant in that slot. I kept Thoughtcast and Frogmite, and they are the only cards with CMC>3 i'm playing right now. He's amazing. When he sticks, you win. Otherwise, he makes pretty solid counter-bait and is also a removal magnet. We all knew that already, but he eats removal or counters to let you get your Cranial plating or whatever else to stick. I usually hate to run many spells that cost more than three in a deck with Confidant, but it's off-set by Ornithopter, Memnite, Mox Opal, etc. To address the idea of playing Confidant with no life-gain, I have not had very many games where I felt like "Gee, I sure could use some life gain about now." and it makes sense. You're affinity. If you can't win before Confidant kills you, you weren't winning that game anyway. The last time I played affinity in a tournament, I took first on the back of Confidant. Granted, it was a small local tourney, but I managed to 2-0 a burn deck that played main-deck Ensnaring Bridge, and after sb-ing, four Price of Progress.

Nuke-tified, could you please share your list?
I think additional CA will be great for affinity (and Confidant is one of the best draw engines in existence) and very interested in every opinion on that topic.

As far as it goes, did anyone tried Standstill in Affinity? With the deck's current speed (Mox Opal gives powerfull and consistent acceleration), we can shit lots of dudes and back it up with standstill extremely early, forcing opponent to break it.
Another strong effect we can now abuse is Winter Orb + Vedalken Certarch + nonland mana. This literally locks out opponent's mana while we still can play our cheap/free creatures with Mox Opal/Springleaf Drum.
It's like the old Armageddon White Weenie (and its evolution Angel Stompy) - drop some dudes and cast Armageddon to keep early board advantage. Both Standstill and Winter Orb do the same thing for Affinity. Man, even Artifact land, Mox Opal, Memnite, Standstill is good.
Here's the list I'm going to test soon:

4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den/Vault of Whispers
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Wasteland
4 Mox Opal
2 Springleaf Drum

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Vedalken Certarch
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
2 Frogmite

2 Dispeller's Capsule/Executioner's Capsule
4 Cranial Plating
3 Winter Orb
3 Standstill
4 Thoughtcast

The main issue is Executioner's Capsule vs Dispeller's Capsule. The first one kills manadorks and everything else you want, but the second one solves the worst problem for both Orb and Still plan: Aether Vial, and also destroys moxes, jittes and other bad things you might see.
Steel Overseer is the star 'cause he works extremely good under both Still and Orb.
Another star is Vedalken Certarch. This guy + Orb is like one-sided Stasis and he can also tap everything on the way of your robots (i.e acts as pseudo-removal).
Another thing to consider is the returning of Aether Vial to the deck to be able to play under Standstill.

@eq.firemind -- I'd drop the capsules for pithing needle. It's super versatile and adds much needed protection to affinity's super exposed list.

Cedric just posted a not so interesting Glimpse list on his SCG premium article..

the gist of his list is (which just seems like its the deck from the SCG Nashville 5k):

4 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Glint Hawk
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Mox Opal
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtcast
2 Cranial Plating

4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
2 Glimmervoid

2 cranials? 4 springleaf drum?
most decks in legacy can deal with a flipped erayo somewhat easily other than combo decks.
sure the thing draws a ton of cards, but....

After playing the list on MTGO 2 man queues a half dozen times, I'd have to say that this list is insane!! It is very good and very very fast and consistent. You always have a huge army by turn 2, 3 at the latest. Try it out, you'll love it.

While I see where he's going, I can't say I like the list. It makes the deck too combo-like.

Wait, so Affinity isn't a combo deck?

^ lol my thoughts exactly.

I like Cedric's list, and it isn't even tuned. It's so easy to flip Erayo with Opal, Hawk and Memnite.

Adding more non-synergetic pieces in order to go off efficiently makes it more combo than aggro.

Saito recently published a list on CFB for affinity with FOW's... not sure how much I like it..

* 4 Vedalken Certarch
* 4 Frogmite
* 4 Myr Enforcer
* 3 Somber Hoverguard
* 4 Memnite
* 2 Ornithopter
* 3 Master of Eterium
* 4 Springleaf Drum
* 4 Cranial Plating
* 4 Thoughtcast
* 3 Chromatic Star
* 4 Force of Will
* 4 Mox Opal
* 4 Seat of the Synod
* 4 Great Furnace
* 4 Ancient Den
* 1 Vault of Whispers
* Sideboard
* 4 Leonin Arbiter
* 4 Galvanic Blast
* 3 Nihil Spellbomb
* 4 Swords to Plowshares

like the sideboard, but Hoverguards are not so hot... id rather run brainstorms there and a 4 Master...

I agree, 4 Master of Etherium, but for Affownity I can see running 3 hoverguards. For the last Master, I'd probably cut Chromatic Star down to two.

Here is the current list I am toying with:

* Creatures
4 Frogmite
3 Myr Enforcer
2 Etched Champion
4 Steel Overseer
4 Master of Etherium
3 Court Homunculus
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite

* Non-Creature
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
3 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast

* Lands
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
3 Glimmervoid

It's actually working out quite well. The reason for the Homunculus (which is still in testing) was because I wanted a 1-drop artifact creature that was more than a 1/1. It's actually not that bad.

I've had pretty explosive turn 2 attacks. A turn 2 swing with an equipped plating has happened a few times.

A game I just played today went like this:
Turn 1: Land, Drum, Memnite, Thopter, Frogmite. Tap drum/thopter and play Thoughtcast. I drew a Enforcer and another land. (Currently holding Enforcer, Plating, Land)
Turn 2: Land. Tap 2 lands, play Plating. Play a free Enforcer. Tap drum/thopter to equip Plating to Frogmite.

Swing with a 10/2 Frogmite and a 1/1 Memnite. I think I did all that math right... heh.

Granted this was a spectacular hand, but second turn big swings have happened a few times. Turn 2 Master of Etherium is great as well - makes Homunculus a 3/3 for 1cc which is pretty efficient.

Anyway, just was reading through this thread and thought I'd share my current list. Any feedback/comments would be appreciated.

Here's my list. It's trades some of the explosiveness of traditional affinity for added consistency. I wasn't a fan of Ravager because of the bad synergy with Plating and Master of Etherium, so I figured Steel Overseer is much better, putting +1/+1 counters on everything once a turn rather than one big effect. With Ravager, one Swords can ruin your day. Here, I run 16 must-counter spells: Master, Steel Overseer, Dark Confidant and Cranial Plating. Dark Confidant is the best card in the deck since Affinity empties it's hand so easily. The 1x The Abyss is to lock up the game against creature-based decks, and occasionally wins games. Academy Ruins helps vs. control and blue decks. 4x Mox Opal and 3x Springleaf drum is because the deck needs explosiveness and color fixing.

Dark Confidant and Steel Overseer shines vs. Merfolk and the other aggro/control decks. The deck can be a little weak vs. fast aggro, but the slower the deck, the more the consistency of Confidant/Overseer helps. Galvanic Blast is mostly a mid to late game card, to either finish off the opponent or (more often) clear out a blocker.

// Lands
4 [MR] Seat of the Synod
4 [MR] Vault of Whispers
4 [HOP] Great Furnace
3 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Creatures
4 [ALA] Master of Etherium
4 [9E] Ornithopter
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [MR] Frogmite
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant

// Spells
3 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [HOP] Cranial Plating
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
4 [SOM] Galvanic Blast
1 [LG] The Abyss

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
SB: 1 [LG] The Abyss
SB: 3 [10E] Pithing Needle
SB: 2 [6E] Perish
SB: 4 [R] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 4 [R] Blue Elemental Blast

The sideboard is just thrown together and still up in the air.

Instead of Dark Confidant, I would much rather run Riddlesmith. Same body, ~same function, but he's much faster.
Also, since I've seen the card in action, I'd run no less than 3 Etched Champion, probably 4.

Riddlesmith is not card advantage though. With Riddlesmith, you're forced to choose between actually playing your cards or cycling them away. Plus, you have to play a non-land to trigger the cycling anyway. Also, if you play your hand (as Affinity often likes to do), Riddlesmith becomes virtually worthless when you're in topdeck mode, unless you want to wait another turn, then play one of those cards and cycle the other away. With Confidant, he makes the cards that you would be throwing away to Riddlesmith useful. Extra lands=more resilience to wasteland, plus a better ability to play the extra cards you're drawing. Plus, with Confidant, nearly every card you draw gives +1/+1 to Master and +1/+0 to anything with a plating. Since 28 cards have a CMC of zero, Confidant's drawback isn't a big deal.