[DTB] Sneak Attack

Wipe Away is harder to cast than it looks, you are usually fetching basics and you are almost certainly unable to do anything else blue that same turn. It's worse against counter decks that do not play Wastelands but better against the rest, and you board it in against hate bear decks which do not play hymns or counters. It's also a lot better against Reanimator (where 2 vs 3 mana is a big difference). Versus Zombie tokens (from Bridge from Below) and Goblin tokens (from Empty the Warrens) Echoing Truth gains a lot of value, and Wipe Away does nothing against Karakas, you are boned if you go for SnT -> Emrakul and they have knight for karakas or karakas itself (Truth is better in the Knight case, since you can bounce Knight for 2 mana instead of 3) but Karakas isn't a big problem. This deck has 4 ways to win, namely SnT -> Emrakul, SnT -> Progenitus, Sneak Attack -> Emrakul, Sneak Attack -> Prog, 2nd Prog (and a second turn ofcourse). Karakas is very good against plan 1, terrible against plan 2, very mildly annoying vs plan 3 (you can just activate Sneak Attack again, you do need double red which can be annoying since most Karakas decks play wastelands) and terrible against plan 4 again.

Clique is for the combo matchups, very good against BUG decks (it gets rid of disruption and can catch an edict, it can attack Liliana profitably and can trade for their Clique) and is decent against other control decks (like against Stoneblade you don't need the speed so you can ship the Petals for additional disruption).

I'll explain my other sb cards. Firespout is for timewalking goblins and slowing down Merfolk (which is not a good matchup), Crypt (should be Surgical Extractions I think) are against Dredge and Reanimator (extraction is better against reanimator, crypt better against Dredge) and Trinispheres are against faster combo decks. Spell Pierce are great against combo decks and control decks, and I wish I had room for them main, but Daze is just better G1.

Ah yes, ofcourse. Total lack of experience here. I've never played decks that suffered from wasteland for lack of duals. And dredge zombie tokens, yeah echoing truth is definetely the better one there.

And daze seems better than spell pierce even if only for the fact that intuition for 3 dazes can be necessary at times.

If plan 4 actually used wouldn't it be better to run that 4th progenitus? (even if only in the sideboard for when the show and tell plan isn't such a good idea?)

Remember I´m new but still I dont see Daze being superior to Spell Pierce - Yeah its free but its actually half as good as Spell Pierce...
And doesnt it set you back from lands?

I played this deck for the majority of 2010 and at least back then, you wouldn't want Daze because you don't want it to set you back lands.

Your game winning spells cost 3 and 4. What's the chance that when you cast a Show and Tell or a Sneak Attack, your opponent will be tapped out (or tap out) to make a Daze in your hand useful?

And against your opponent plays in the first turns, when you'll get to counter a spell, you're getting a full turn behind, giving your opponent time to maybe cast a Jace (which would bounce Emrakul).

While, with Spell Pierce, you can safely counter early Hymn, and when you're first, Vials and Seizes while you amass mana for the Intuition or cantrip.

Isn´t Flusterstorm strictly better than spell pierce or daze in the MD. I see spell pierce as a great SB card and Flusterstorm to combat combo decks that are faster than us and double as counters against removal for our fatties such as edict and such???

just my $0.02

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Originally Posted by slaydo

Isn´t Flusterstorm strictly better than spell pierce or daze in the MD. I see spell pierce as a great SB card and Flusterstorm to combat combo decks that are faster than us and double as counters against removal for our fatties such as edict and such???

just my $0.02

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I have spell pierced a Jace, Divining Top, and a Sword of Fire and Ice with this deck.

@Trent

I'll be honest with you man, I used to run bounce... but after showing up to a years worth of events and never once boarding it in, I just took it off.

As far as Ancestral Knowledge goes. True, it can fall to Spell Snare but like I said, I've never had it countered by anything. The fact that it has the Cumulative Upkeep makes people pass it over. They figure it takes care of its self so they don't mess with it. Then they lose cuz I just rigged the top 10 cards of my deck.

And to all... I gave up on Daze for this deck long ago. The reason:

Turn 1 me: Play Island, go
Turn 1 them: Play swamp, Thoughtsieze
DAZE
Turn 2 me: rinse and repeat turn 1 (GOD I HATE DAZE)

you can't always rely on having a brainstorm to hide cards and Daze costs us games, sets us to far behind
I'll just spend the 1 blue to play Spell Pierce and then get to do somthing productive on my turn 2, like this card that lets me rig the top 10 cards of my deck.

How do you guys think that the banning of brainstorm WOULD influence this particular deck, is ponder and preordain good enough?

Greetings

We discussed this very thing earlier in the thread and the general opinion of everyone seemed to be: Brainstorm will not get banned

..hopefuly

Ok, guys, if all my cards arrive Ill take this deck the first time to the locals this sunday, but I need some advice from you experts :)

Thats my deck atm:
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Arid Mesa
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
2 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
//20

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul
4 Progenitus
//16

4 Intuition
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
//12

4 Force of Will
3 Misdirection
3 Spell Pierce
//10

4 Lotus Petal
//4

= 62

Sideboard:
3 Trinisphere
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Echoing Truth
2 Pyroblast
4 Red Elemental Blast

Its pretty hard to cut this deck to 75... So ill stay with 77 until I got a good idea myself I guess.


And at my locals there are always the same decks, Im not gonna ask you how to beat Esperblade, Maverick or Deadguy but more like hard decks or decks Ive never tested against:


HighTide: This sounds like an easy MU - I just have to kill them before they reach their 4th landdrop, and I still got 4 Force + 3 Misdirection if they start to timespiral so they could fizzzle somewhere there I guess.

UW-EnlightenedTutorCounterThopter: Thats my horror-MU - Ive played against it 3 times and lost all of them. With the E-tutor hes getting Humility, Ensnaring Bridge, O-Ring, Phyrexian Metamorph - this is the MU where I beg you to gimme some tips:)

Thanks for accepted me, as a newcomer, it wont take more than a few weeks until I can discuss with you at the same level - Thanks

Greetings

Would it be possible to have enough room to run Daze and Spell Pierce?

Okay Phil, first of let me say you're going to have a lot of fun playing this deck... also a side note... WIN THE DIE ROLL. This deck has problems winning off the draw.


Now; too things you actually have control over...

These are just my opinions from running the deck for so long:

Land Base:

-Like 4 Tarn
-Don't like the 2 Misty and 2 mesa, you're going to be very dissapointed with the mesa. You NEED blue. Red is pretty much only for sneak attack. go up to 4 Misty. I run 4 delta but what ever. Use the mistys to fetch nothing but islands and if you can, save the tarns for the one mountain you need
-I run 3 volcanic and you may want to go up to 3. Seems to be the general thread concensus.
- +1 Island and -1 Tomb. Tomb rocks but when you have 2 in play thats going to get painful. Because of the deck you're playing you're going to take damage from the opponent from the get go and be able to do nothing about it. So you don't want to help them out by damaging yourself. Oh and it sucks drawing nothing but 2 tomb in your opening hand, your screwed.

Spells:

-You have all the staples and good call on 4 Prog and 4 Emmy. Stick to those no-nonsense creatures that stick until the end.

Searchers:

-got to have 4 BS
-Intuition rocks but you may want to cut it down to 3
-I HATE PONDER, I run 3 ancestral Knowledge, read my previous posts on the card. I love it

(by the way that will get you to 60 MD)

Counters:

-all perfect, Daze freakin sucks in this deck, trust me

4 Lotus petal rules, lets you win on the first turn


Your board:

This is where you going to run into a lot of trouble

-Surgical Extraction is fine, I'm looking at it myself
-6 red counters? thats way to muh overkill. I don't run any... why? Well they're not good against every deck so they could be dead and that could be 6 dead sideboard slots for you. The other reason is... what do you side out for them? 1 of this, 1 of that? now you're making Intuition less valuable. 3 of somthing? 4 of somthing? nothing in the MD is worth taking out for REB or Pyro. Ditch them and put BLOOD MOON IN. 3 blood moon is so good, they win games and eat up counters to pave the way for S&T or Sneak Attack. That's also another reason why I said +1 Island -1 Tomb. You always want to fetch basics if you can.
-Truth is fine
-Trinosphere is fine for your storm matches

Instead of the 6 red counters look at Massacre Wurm, so good against mass creature decks which are everywhere right now and you NEED firespout on your bored. I can't stress that enough NEED FIRESPOUT.




That's what I have for you. Good luck man, have fun and let us know how it goes.

I just found the report by Trentemoller's friend Erwin Sneek (the name fits) who finished 16th at Grand Prix Amsterdam. Just thought I'd share it with you, a very good read. http://www.teamadhd.nl/wp/?p=145

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Originally Posted by JPAnghelescu

I just found the report by Trentemoller's friend Erwin Sneek (the name fits) who finished 16th at Grand Prix Amsterdam. Just thought I'd share it with you, a very good read. http://www.teamadhd.nl/wp/?p=145

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The rest of us found it already two weeks ago from the tournament reports section of this forum.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hopo

The rest of us found it already two weeks ago from the tournament reports section of this forum.

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:frown: Didn't know that

Hi Guys,

Worlds 2011 is over and one of the finalists in the team championship was playing Sneak&Tell with a rather unusual build. Here it is for reference:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Progenitus
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Lotus Petal
3 Spell Pierce
2 City of Traitors
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity

I have been testing this online and it amazes me. It's still very consistent however I am shocked that it doesn't run any bounce. I like the alternate win con with Jace 2.0 a lot. I agree on the 2 City of Traitors because Sol Lands are exactly what makes this deck OP. T1 or T2 emmy/proggy.

Regarding the SB I would change the Blood Moons to Magus of the Moons because removal is still boarded out G2 against us. I am not sold on the leylines though. Having no bounce really hurts when fighting hate such as ensnaring bridge. I understand the need to cut 2 Intuition and 2 Lotus Petal for the 20th land and the 3 jaces.

Opinions?

Slaydo

I can not stress this enough... just because you run blue does not mean you need Jace. Cheating Emmy/Proggy into play is more devestating than anything Jace is going to do. Taking an Intuition out to run Jace just makes the deck less consistant. I think in the long run, say out of 100 games, you'd see that having an extra Intuition will make the deck more consistant.


Blood Moon Vs. Magus of the Moon

It's not a guarantee that your opponent will take out swords or path. Blood Moon is just the safer way to go. No, it doesn't attack for 2 but it's ost likely going to stick far better than magus. And don't forget, with SFM and nasty equipment rolling around (Jitte, Sword Fire/Ice) your maguses become much more vulnerable.

After playing one full year the deck, since december 2011 i Just started to play another deck (doomsday) but thats the last list i played. With Show & Sneak i toped a bunch of events like bazar of moxen (top8) and a lot of others here in spain so i let my last list here for anyone interested. I will still play the deck but now with so much team america running liliana in my zone its realy hard to play it.

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Progenitus
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Missdirection
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
4 Lotus Petal
3 Echoing truth

SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
SB: 3 Volcanic Fallout
SB: 2 Pyroblast
SB: 3 triniesphere

Changes that i make sometimes in sideboard depending on the meta:
+1/2 Faerie macabre
+2/3 Divert
+2/3 Energy flux
+2/3 Tormods Crypt
+1/3 Whipe Away

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slaydo

Hi Guys,

Worlds 2011 is over and one of the finalists in the team championship was playing Sneak&Tell with a rather unusual build. Here it is for reference:

4 Sneak Attack
4 Show and Tell
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3 Progenitus
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Intuition
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Volcanic Island
2 Island
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Lotus Petal
3 Spell Pierce
2 City of Traitors
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
SB: 3 Blood Moon
SB: 2 Red Elemental Blast
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Vendilion Clique
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 4 Leyline of Sanctity

I have been testing this online and it amazes me. It's still very consistent however I am shocked that it doesn't run any bounce. I like the alternate win con with Jace 2.0 a lot. I agree on the 2 City of Traitors because Sol Lands are exactly what makes this deck OP. T1 or T2 emmy/proggy.

Regarding the SB I would change the Blood Moons to Magus of the Moons because removal is still boarded out G2 against us. I am not sold on the leylines though. Having no bounce really hurts when fighting hate such as ensnaring bridge. I understand the need to cut 2 Intuition and 2 Lotus Petal for the 20th land and the 3 jaces.

Opinions?

Slaydo

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I'm no combo player but I tested this deck yesterday just for fun and it's nuts, I love it, I might just jump archetypes to play this. I'm used to running Jace as a control player and I think it's very powerful in this build. It's brainstorm, it's bounce (not get rid of Teeg bounce but turn 2 Jace bounce knight isn't bad by a long shot), it's alternative win when you resolve Blood Moon/Magus of the Moon.

The only thing I wasn't sure about were the Clique's in Side. Why do they play Clique? The mirror? Clique is pretty good against SHow and Tell but to play it as a Show and Tell player and only 2 instead of instead of 3, hmmm... I don't see it.

Jace is amazing in the deck. Have been testing this online and there are so many situations where Jace either wins outright or baits counters allowing SnT/Sneak to resolve. The Cliques are for combo and control match ups.