[Deck] MonoU OmniTell

hello Lejay,

I am playing the following deck in legacy:

3 City of Traitors
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
10 Island
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
3 Cunning Wish
3 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Sideboard:

1 Trickbind
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Rushing River
1 Release the Ants
1 Noxious Revival
1 Intuition
1 Eladamri's Call
3 Defense Grid
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pact of Negation

==>I got 4 questions:

1.)Whats your current list of this deck?
2.)what do you think about playing 1xquicken in the sideboard; I had a situation against death & taxes,where I played s&t.I put omniscience in and he put oblivion ring
onto the battlefield,I asked myself if it would be good to have 1xquicken in the sideboard because in that situation I had enter the infinite in my hand.
3.)what do you think about playing 1xflusterstorm in the sideboard,how would your list look like then and which card is curretnly played in this slot?
4.)what do you think about playing 1xmisdirection in the sideboard,how would your list look like then and which card is curretnly played in this slot?

please answer.

best regards.

Titan2k13

At least in regards to #2, if you have the Cunning Wish in hand, you can just wish for Trickbind to stop the O-Ring trigger and continue to go off.

Hey guys. I played emidln's list at the Somerset to 4-0 in the Legacy challenge, then played it in Legacy Open to a miserable 4-4 drop. I loved the list relative to Lejay's, although I've decided I really don't like playing the archetype. Small changes: the 4th Force over the 3rd Pact, and I cut the sb Intuition for a German Teferi's Realm.

Sneak and Show 2-1 : I played the control and countered his Show and Tells. Dream Halls won both games.
Big Red 1-2 : Show and Tell won the first, his 3-ball into Inferno Titan won the second, and a lucky flip off Chaos Warp clinched the third. His report is here, except his hand had 2x REB, not REB + Chaos Warp as described at that point.
Manaless Dredge 2-1
BUG Agent 1-2 : G2 I could have won through Golgari Charm if I had considered it, but instead die. G3 I take an aggressive line running out an Omniscience with Enter as my only pitch to Force. He Forces into Pulse. He didn't play a single discard spell the entire match, but had plenty of Forces. This match actually had some interesting decision points if anyone wants me to elaborate.
Sneak and Show 2-0 : He was inexperienced and misplayed a 10-spell stack that caused me to resolve Enter the Infinite instead of die to a Pact trigger.
Reanimator 0-2 : I aggressively counter his ins, but he strips my hand. Iona finds her way into play. G2 goes super long, with me countering multiple ins. I brick with a Dream Halls and then also an Omniscience in play for like 8 turns, he gets there first.
Soldier Stompy 2-0 : Show and Tell derp herp g1, then g2 Chalice on 1 blanks half my hand. I S&T Omniscience and hope he forgets his trigger on my Ponder, he does, and I find Enter for the win.
BUG Agent 0-2 : I keep aggressive hands and go for t2-3 Show and Tell both games, but both games he curves Liliana into Force on my business.
drop.

In neither game against the black deck would Leyline have prevented a single spell. Defense Grid would have done stone nothing in all the matchups I played. Thoughtseize was a versatile, unexpected card that did work, and Flusterstorm was pretty good. Liliana and Sneak Attack are scary, so I'm tempted to play a Pierce or two.
Firemind's Foreskin did the exact same thing Intuition would have done and was better once. Teferi's Realm would have been good had I drawn it in a couple games. Trickbind in the main sucked. I didn't play any matches with O-Ring or Venser though. I lost a few games to pitching Trickbind or boarding it out so Foreskin couldn't find a 2, but could have mitigated that by more actively Brainstorming it in. I think I would prefer it to be an Impulse.

Overall, very happy with Emidln's list. Discard was relevant in the Challenge against thresh and the mirror. Just some thoughts - use them if you want, I won't be playing Show and Tell again at a big tournament. It was incredibly boring. Probably going back to storming it up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Titan2k13

hello Lejay,

I am playing the following deck in legacy:

3 City of Traitors
3 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
10 Island
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Dream Halls
4 Omniscience
3 Cunning Wish
3 Pact of Negation
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Enter the Infinite
4 Ponder
4 Preordain
4 Show and Tell

Sideboard:

1 Trickbind
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Sapphire Charm
1 Rushing River
1 Release the Ants
1 Noxious Revival
1 Intuition
1 Eladamri's Call
3 Defense Grid
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Pact of Negation

==>I got 4 questions:

1.)Whats your current list of this deck?
2.)what do you think about playing 1xquicken in the sideboard; I had a situation against death & taxes,where I played s&t.I put omniscience in and he put oblivion ring
onto the battlefield,I asked myself if it would be good to have 1xquicken in the sideboard because in that situation I had enter the infinite in my hand.
3.)what do you think about playing 1xflusterstorm in the sideboard,how would your list look like then and which card is curretnly played in this slot?
4.)what do you think about playing 1xmisdirection in the sideboard,how would your list look like then and which card is curretnly played in this slot?

please answer.

best regards.

Titan2k13

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1) Didn't play the deck lately as I don't have the cards anymore on MTGO? If I would play a list tomorrow I would still play the one I posted in the opening. Possible testing I'd try are -1 island +1 GP, Drew Levin's list, and emidln's list. All seem good.
2) Esper3k answered
3)Least used card in the sb are eladamri's call and noxious revival so that's where I'd look. Some people cut 3rd grid but I think it's very important. I don't find flusterstorm that necessary in the board. I like the way my sideboarding goes this way and as I already explained several times with these more specialized disrupts (full pon, LLoS, grid) you always have the more suitable protection as long as you don't do the wrong sideboarding. I've thought about trying a flusterstorm instead of a pact of negation main deck like I think Drew Levin did. Never had time to try it, but you could test that.
4) Misdirection seems much too narrow. This deck has no room for it unless you play in a very special metagame.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

Soldier Stompy 2-0 : Show and Tell derp herp g1, then g2 Chalice on 1 blanks half my hand. I S&T Omniscience and hope he forgets his trigger on my Ponder, he does, and I find Enter for the win.

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Is this even legal?

Ofc it is. Whenever you cast a spell, chalice checks to see if the cc is the same as the number of counters on it. If it is then it puts a trigger on the stack countering the spell. If the owner of chalice forgets to put the trigger on the stack, and you choose to not remind him, the spell then resolves. It wasn't legal in the old rules though since it isn't a "may" ability.

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Originally Posted by mulder

Is this even legal?

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Think so. The person who owns the trigger is responsible for not missing it. You can (some would probably find it a bit scummy) play a 1CMC spell with a Chalice on 1 and then ask your opponent if it resolves or even worse (biased) cast it and just await his/her reaction. If he/she neglects to point out that the Chalice triggers and counters the spell but instead go "sure" or even worse "sure, resolves", then the trigger has been missed. It's in the same genre as someone forgetting to mention their emrakul annihilator trigger.

In my book we're in a grey area. I could never in good conscience get myself to try and sneak by one of my opponent's triggers, but I'm fairly sure it's perfectly legal. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The level of competition might affect this(?).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Think so. The person who owns the trigger is responsible for not missing it. You can (some would probably find it a bit scummy) play a 1CMC spell with a Chalice on 1 and then ask your opponent if it resolves or even worse (biased) cast it and just await his/her reaction. If he/she neglects to point out that the Chalice triggers and counters the spell but instead go "sure" or even worse "sure, resolves", then the trigger has been missed. It's in the same genre as someone forgetting to mention their emrakul annihilator trigger.

In my book we're in a grey area. I could never in good conscience get myself to try and sneak by one of my opponent's triggers, but I'm fairly sure it's perfectly legal. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. The level of competition might affect this(?).

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This is true of Competitive+ REL events, so in your Regular REL events, you still have to remind your opponent.

The new trigger philosophy is that now each player is responsible for their own triggers, which makes me perfectly happy. No longer do you have to essentially play the game for your opponent and constantly remind them of their own triggers unless you want them to trigger. This gives more room for you to play and allow your opponent to make mistakes instead of them awkwardly autopiloting to victory.

We actually saw this on stream at the SCG Open last weekend where Reid Duke stole Game 1 from a MUD opponent when he resolved his Chain Lightning on a Lodestone Golem under Chalice @ 1 (thus, growing his Tarmogoyfs by +3/+3).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mulder

Is this even legal?

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it is legal due to the new missed triggers rule as others have pointed out. However in my opinion it shuoldnt be as it seems to be borderline cheating since it was an intentional manipulation of the rules. The fact that you were aware of the trigger and tried to get away with it is what makes it wrong. You might as well have started using your fetchlands as vamp tutors and hoped your opponent didnt notice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

it is legal due to the new missed triggers rule as others have pointed out. However in my opinion it shuoldnt be as it seems to be borderline cheating since it was an intentional manipulation of the rules. The fact that you were aware of the trigger and tried to get away with it is what makes it wrong. You might as well have started using your fetchlands as vamp tutors and hoped your opponent didnt notice...

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I agree that it seems scummy and I felt scummy afterwards. I talked with a couple judges afterwards and everyone agreed that I shouldn't feel scummy, but at the very least I did feel bad for the guy.

The way it played out was that I saw my only out with lethal on board was him forgetting Chalice's trigger and then finding an Enter. I cast S&T, put in Omniscience, verbally announced "Ponder." He gave me a thumbs up, I immediately grabbed the top 3 of my library, then he pointed to Chalice. We called over a judge, he verified that was what happened in both players' views, then ruled that he had acknowledged the spell resolving and forgotten the trigger.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

I agree that it seems scummy and I felt scummy afterwards. I talked with a couple judges afterwards and everyone agreed that I shouldn't feel scummy, but at the very least I did feel bad for the guy.

The way it played out was that I saw my only out with lethal on board was him forgetting Chalice's trigger and then finding an Enter. I cast S&T, put in Omniscience, verbally announced "Ponder." He gave me a thumbs up, I immediately grabbed the top 3 of my library, then he pointed to Chalice. We called over a judge, he verified that was what happened in both players' views, then ruled that he had acknowledged the spell resolving and forgotten the trigger.

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Well, I find it admirable that you're so honest about what happened. And it's hard to argue with it when a judge is conferred and rules in your favor... but man... "He gave me thumbs up, I immediately grabbed the top 3 of my library, then he pointed to Chalice".

This to me is a clear indication that the rule does NOT work as intented atm. Based on your own description it doesn't sound like he forgot anything, but rather misunderstood how he was supposed to react. He gave you the thumbs up, perhaps, in recognition of you announcing the Ponder. If you had moved your hand more slowly towards your deck he likely would have reacted before you drew the cards and pointed out that the Ponder was going to get countered by the Chalice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Well, I find it admirable that you're so honest about what happened. And it's hard to argue with it when a judge is conferred and rules in your favor... but man... "He gave me thumbs up, I immediately grabbed the top 3 of my library, then he pointed to Chalice".

This to me is a clear indication that the rule does NOT work as intented atm. Based on your own description it doesn't sound like he forgot anything, but rather misunderstood how he was supposed to react. He gave you the thumbs up, perhaps, in recognition of you announcing the Ponder. If you had moved your hand more slowly towards your deck he likely would have reacted before you drew the cards and pointed out that the Ponder was going to get countered by the Chalice.

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this sounds like a miscommunication issue, not a missed trigger issue. He should definatly be more clear about what thumbs up means, cause I could totally see someone doing that and thinking like "ok whatever it gets countered ". Traditionally thumbs up would give you the green light on your action. I feel like you are less at fault now but you opponent needs to communicate better, as do most of the other players in the game.

They covered this in the most recent eternal central podcast with the guest judges. The phrase "OK" should be erased from your magic vocabulary, and you should instead adopt the word, "thinking", just in case you have a response.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nevilshute

Well, I find it admirable that you're so honest about what happened. And it's hard to argue with it when a judge is conferred and rules in your favor... but man... "He gave me thumbs up, I immediately grabbed the top 3 of my library, then he pointed to Chalice".

This to me is a clear indication that the rule does NOT work as intented atm. Based on your own description it doesn't sound like he forgot anything, but rather misunderstood how he was supposed to react. He gave you the thumbs up, perhaps, in recognition of you announcing the Ponder. If you had moved your hand more slowly towards your deck he likely would have reacted before you drew the cards and pointed out that the Ponder was going to get countered by the Chalice.

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I don't find it shady at all. If you're playing at a Competitive+ REL, you should be responsible for your own triggers, imo.

Likewise in the example, I do agree with the judge ruling. When you're playing a Chalice deck and someone throws a spell into the Chalice, you don't give a thumbs up, you point to the Chalice and say "Chalice?" or just say "Counter it.". A thumbs up is a common response for allowing a spell to resolve, similar to that hand motion for passing the turn. If your opponent was intending something else, it sucks, but he should be aware of commonly used shortcuts in the game or at least be more clear about his intentions in the future.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by apple713

this sounds like a miscommunication issue, not a missed trigger issue. He should definatly be more clear about what thumbs up means, cause I could totally see someone doing that and thinking like "ok whatever it gets countered ". Traditionally thumbs up would give you the green light on your action. I feel like you are less at fault now but you opponent needs to communicate better, as do most of the other players in the game.

They covered this in the most recent eternal central podcast with the guest judges. The phrase "OK" should be erased from your magic vocabulary, and you should instead adopt the word, "thinking", just in case you have a response.

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Agreed, everyone just need to be more clear in communication. "OK" is such an ambiguous term that if my opponents use it, I always stop to clarify what they mean.

I've been searching for an alternative for the Eladamri's Call into Emrakul route in order to beat Gaddock Teeg for a while.

My goal was to find a package that is able to win through Gaddock Teeg, Emrakul in the opponents deck and Comes-into-play effects (O-ring, Venser etc) without having to run Emrakul in the maindeck.

Here's the best that I could find for now:

MD:
4 Omniscience
4 Dream Halls
4 Show and Tell
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Preoardain
4 Cunning Wish
3 Force of Will
3 Pact of Negation
4 Enter the Infinite
1 Flusterstorm
1 Intuition
1 Lim-Dûl's Vault

4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 City of Traitors
1 Underground Sea
6 Island

SB:
1 Firemind's Foresight
1 Intuition
2 Naya Charm
1 Brain Freeze
1 Force of Will
2 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Swamp
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wipe Away
1 Rushing River
2 Virtue's Ruin

1.How to beat Emrakul in opposing decks: (with Omniscience in play)
Brain Freeze-->Emrakul triggers-->Surgical Extraction targetting Emrakul-->Graveyard shuffled into library-->mill the library with the rest of the Brain Freeze copies that are still on the stack

2.How to beat Gaddock Teeg:
Cunning Wish-->Intuition-->3 Cunning Wish-->Naya Charm grabbing Wish-->Naya Charm grabbing Naya Charm (loop)-->etc-->Naya Charm grabbing Wish-->Brain Freeze

3.How to beat Comes into play effects: s.o.

The downside of the package is the necessity of 4 Cunning Wishes.
The package is only prone to graveyard hate in Scenario 2, in Scenario1 you have your whole deck available and are able to counter graveyard hate or bounce it if it's permanent. In scenario 3 you can wish for FF(-->Cunning Wish,Vault, Flusterstorm or Wish,Vault, Brainstorm) whereas Vault and Brainstorm provide you with any card of your deck with enough life to play with.

And yes, the only thing it achieves is not having to run Emrakul in the MD to be able to beat Gaddock Teeg.
Is it worth it? I don't know.

And uses three sideboard slots while not helping at all against thalia.
Brain freeze can function with 2x SDT main deck. Your kill will also be problematic if you use a wish pre combo.

Well, Emrakul+Eladamri's Call+Release the ants are also 3 slots in the 75 overall.
The aspects regarding Thalia and the use of Wish precomco are true, however.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phazonmuant

I cut the sb Intuition for a German Teferi's Realm.

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Can somebody explain what Teferi's Realm does? Can't they just pick a permanent type they do not control to phase out making the Realm useless?

You mostly want to use the realm trigger during your own upkeep. Its usually set on creatures so that when you start your upkeep, you phase out all of their hatebears and then go off. You can also do it on artifacts (vs mud or decks w/ trini) and non-aura enchantments versus a counterbalance.

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Originally Posted by somethingdotdotdot

You mostly want to use the realm trigger during your own upkeep. Its usually set on creatures so that when you start your upkeep, you phase out all of their hatebears and then go off. You can also do it on artifacts (vs mud or decks w/ trini) and non-aura enchantments versus a counterbalance.

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Can probably take out a rushing river for it.