[Primer] Nic Fit

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Originally Posted by square_two

Bit surprised you aren't running any Lightning Bolts. I have come to really appreciate Collective Brutality, but I still think the deck could use some fast speedy interaction and even a couple Bolts feel noticeable to me.

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I used to run Bolts over Deluge and Brutality, but for now I like the versatility Brutality offers as either removal or discard no 5. As for Deluge, I've made very good experiences with it md on top of the 3 pernicious deed, it just gives you another edge against a wide variety of decks (delver, dnt, stoneblade, bug, elves and even miracles).
I'm not sure yet if it's really necessary to play it in sneak fit, though, because we don't have to care about the boardstate with our combo as much as the other lists do. I kinda like the idea of having the white splash for nahiri and swords so if I get my hands on a Nahiri I'll probably test it out. Being able to answer marit lage or sire of insanity md might be pretty relevant right now..

Current build of Nahiri Sneak:

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Fierce Empath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
1 Woodland Bellower
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Sneak Attack
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top

3 Pernicious Deed
2 Collective Brutality
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 To The Slaughter

2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Nissa, Vital Force

2 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard:
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Thoughtseize
2 Pithing Needle
2 Blood Moon
2 City of Solitude
1 Wurmcoil Engine

Manabase gives 15G/14B/13R/12W. With nine fetchlands, it's tempting to include Tireless Tracker, but he's just so fair this build probably doesn't care much. Nissa VF's ultimate is pretty strong here though.
Plenty of sideboard options. Might want more combo hate, but we already have six maindeck discard spells and two in the board, plus a fast clock and Surgicals. Thoughtseize could probably just be Duress to be honest, might be better for us - there are very few creatures we really care about. Nahiri helps shore up our removal suite, and also deals with a couple permanents that could otherwise be problems for the deck, like Sulfuric Vortex and Keranos. Rebuying Nahiri with Nissa is pretty powerful.

This list would love some graveyard recursion, since it has multiple discard outlets in Collective Brutality and Nahiri. I'm honestly tempted to jam in some Lingering Souls. Punishing Fire overlaps with Collective Brutality in utility and probably isn't worth it, though, and I don't think Loam is particularly relevant either (although we do have a lot of fetchlands). We also don't have any way of tutoring for it, and frankly grindy value engines become pretty irrelevant when you're swinging with Emrakul.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

Current build of Nahiri Sneak:

This list would love some graveyard recursion, since it has multiple discard outlets in Collective Brutality and Nahiri. I'm honestly tempted to jam in some Lingering Souls. Punishing Fire overlaps with Collective Brutality in utility and probably isn't worth it, though, and I don't think Loam is particularly relevant either (although we do have a lot of fetchlands). We also don't have any way of tutoring for it, and frankly grindy value engines become pretty irrelevant when you're swinging with Emrakul.

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Sun Titan could work in this deck. Not sure if the 2 white would be hard to get. Torrent of souls is also an interesting card. Probably not worth the mana cost, and its a nonbo with emrakul. Would be great with sun titan or grave titan where we can almost guarantee at least 1 more creature to attack after you revive to take advantage of the creature boost.

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Originally Posted by zyren

Sun Titan could work in this deck. Not sure if the 2 white would be hard to get. Torrent of souls is also an interesting card. Probably not worth the mana cost, and its a nonbo with emrakul. Would be great with sun titan or grave titan where we can almost guarantee at least 1 more creature to attack after you revive to take advantage of the creature boost.

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I don't think Sun Titan is worth it - it's hard to cast and it isn't reliable enough to take any of the slots the other six drops use, so it'd have to be a fourth fatty. IMO Wurmcoil Engine is closer to getting included than Sun Titan is.

Besides, in that same slot you can have another Bellower. Bellower -> Empath -> Emrakul to the face > Sun Titan.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

Besides, in that same slot you can have another Bellower. Bellower -> Empath -> Emrakul to the face > Sun Titan.

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I'd rather have a second Fierce Empath than a second Bellower, personally. IMO it's a major benefit to be able to Zenith empath for value early on, without greatly reducing your sources of emrakul in the late game.

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Originally Posted by Navsi

I'd rather have a second Fierce Empath than a second Bellower, personally. IMO it's a major benefit to be able to Zenith empath for value early on, without greatly reducing your sources of emrakul in the late game.

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The logic is pretty much the same :wink:

Do you guys have any thoughts to Nic Fit variations resembling the old Survival of the Fittest lists that were all toolbox? The problem with the old Survival lists is that they were garbage without Survival of the Fittest and had horrible topdecks, due to the high amount of one of's and utility creatures.

If I remember correctly the "original" ie CalebD list, ran what was mostly a GB Rock list with Explorer for land advantage and Therapy synergy. What advantages or disadvantages do you feel running the more toolbox approach has over a list with mostly 3-4 of's and maybe 2-3 bullets?

Thinking of trying a slightly more proactive build. In particular, Nissa VF is a great card to slam early and let's us be way more active in pressuring our opponent's life total. Maybe try the sideboard tech people were trying last year of Price of Progress, feels very strong in the current meta game.

Has anyone tried playing 3-4 Nissa, VF in a list?

I recently took a list to proxy fnm, I went 1-3 due to a series of bad decisions but the deck itself felt strong. I'm running an Abzan Superfriends because A) I love being able to play six mana walkers in legacy and have it not be blatantly terrible, B) there's a decent bit of Miracles in my meta and I like dodging their removal, C) There's a decent bit of Sneak and Show and fair decks, too, so MB Ensnaring Bridge is great.

Here's my list, I'm very new to the deck and I'm wondering if there are any really obvious holes that someone who knows more about the deck could help fix. I'd like to stay very walker centric even if y'all say it's terrible, but other than that I'm pretty open to suggestions. Thanks!


3x Bayou
2x Forest
1x Tropical Island
1x Karakas
1x Marsh Flats
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath

3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Sensei's Divining Top

2x Swords to Plowshares

1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Veteran Explorer

2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Toxic Deluge

3x Pernicious Deed

Sideboard

1x City of Solitude
2x Enlightened Tutor
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


I'm especially unsure about the O-Rings. I'm considering something like Lost Legacy or Choke, maybe even Chains or Nether Void.

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Originally Posted by Kozilek

3x Bayou
2x Forest
1x Tropical Island
1x Karakas
1x Marsh Flats
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Swamp
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath

3x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Sensei's Divining Top

2x Swords to Plowshares

1x Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Scavenging Ooze
4x Veteran Explorer

2x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Liliana, the Last Hope
2x Nissa, Vital Force
1x Sorin, Grim Nemesis

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Toxic Deluge

3x Pernicious Deed

Sideboard

1x City of Solitude
2x Enlightened Tutor
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Leyline of the Void
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


I'm especially unsure about the O-Rings. I'm considering something like Lost Legacy or Choke, maybe even Chains or Nether Void.

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Hi!

I think you're too greedy on big friends. I think 1 Elspeth SC and 1 Sorin GN is the max.
Instead, I suggest to run at least 2 collective brutality:
-it helps a lot again combo and burn
-it can be used to sac your explorers
-it helps bridge to be effective (if you're stucked with a few big drops, bridge will not do the job against any fair deck)
-it hit little creature and pinger DRS

You should probably also go up to 22 land. 21 lands for such a mana hungry build is just asking for trouble.

First place out of 35....

http://blog.gameplace.ch/legacy-12-03-17/

Creatures (12)
3 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Monastery Mentor
4 Academy Rector
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Instants (4)
4 Abrupt Decay

Sorcery (13)
3 Lingering Souls
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Diabolic Intent

Artifacts (4)
4 Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantments (4)
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Primeval Bounty
1 Omniscience

Planeswalkers (2)
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Garruk Relentless

Lands (21)
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Phyrexian Tower
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Plains

Sideboard (15)
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Contamination
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Damnation
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Thoughtseize

I really like the token sub-theme going on there - enabling the greedy 3 Intents, full Therapy value, also the Contamination in the side (both walkers fuel it). Possible wins from Mentor. I assume that Rector is primarily for Omniscience which turns every Intent into possible Emrakul.

Could see 1-2 Swords being added. List is pretty low to the ground so I assume 21 lands + 2 DRS is fine. Therapy doing lot of work with the tokens.

Edit: Also, Recruiter of the Guard tutors for any of your creatures - DRS, Vet, Witness, Rector, Mentor. Might be worth a copy or two if the space could be found.

Looks like it's being pulled in way too many directions IMO.
Contamination feels super clunky when your token makers can't be cast with only black mana - pretty reliant on Deathrite. Singleton Mentor seems optimistic. We play Therapy and Tops though, so there's probably something there, but I'd rather have 2+ than just one.

Emrakul/Omniscience is sweet, but seems like a lot of commitment. I'm surprised there's no Fierce Empath to make Zenith more relevant.

4 Decay / 2 Deed as only removal worries me. Lands would be pretty bad.

3 Diabolic Intent feels like a lot. There's a lot of cards in the list that are completely dead topdecks if you don't have a guy.

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Originally Posted by maharis

First place out of 35....

http://blog.gameplace.ch/legacy-12-03-17/

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...and another from Illinois a week ago, top 8 from 95 players: http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14911&d=289997&f=LE


4 Bayou
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Forest
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills

2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
2 Grave Titan
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
4 Veteran Explorer

4 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Snuff Out

2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Sylvan Library

//SIDEBOARD
1 Golgari Charm
1 Kitchen Finks
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Nature's Claim
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
1 Thragtusk
1 Umezawa's Jitte

@Navsi: That list should run a Dryad Arbor if it's to support that many Diabolic Intent, that's all.

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Originally Posted by Echelon

@Navsi: That list should run a Dryad Arbor if it's to support that many Diabolic Intent, that's all.

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True. If you're running Arbor and Contamination, Meren starts to look pretty great too.

Hi everyone,

I wanted to build a BUG control list with Pernicious Deeds (I feel like the card is sweet in the current meta) and decided that a Nic Fit shell might be good. This isn't your typical Nic Fit list with crazy bombs, basically the curve ends with Leovold and Jace, but I was wondering if I could get some feedback on it.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/593704#online

I added the probes because the blue count for Force was a little low, but they have been decent in combination with Therapy.

The list is certainly a bit threat-light, but that's kind of what I was going for with a more controlling build. The 2 copies of Nissa in the board really put in a lot of work in matchups like vs Miracles when big threats are more necessary.

If I were to add a big bomb maindeck, I would want something that pitches to FoW. Consecrated Sphinx maybe? Are there any good UG creature bombs? This would be great, as it could both be tutored by GSZ and pitched to FoW.

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Originally Posted by FZA

Hi everyone,

I wanted to build a BUG control list with Pernicious Deeds (I feel like the card is sweet in the current meta) and decided that a Nic Fit shell might be good. This isn't your typical Nic Fit list with crazy bombs, basically the curve ends with Leovold and Jace, but I was wondering if I could get some feedback on it.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/593704#online

I added the probes because the blue count for Force was a little low, but they have been decent in combination with Therapy.

The list is certainly a bit threat-light, but that's kind of what I was going for with a more controlling build. The 2 copies of Nissa in the board really put in a lot of work in matchups like vs Miracles when big threats are more necessary.

If I were to add a big bomb maindeck, I would want something that pitches to FoW. Consecrated Sphinx maybe? Are there any good UG creature bombs? This would be great, as it could both be tutored by GSZ and pitched to FoW.

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A straightforward threat that's resilient and UG is Sagu Mauler, but it's weak to sweepers and edicts. Haven't tried it, don't remember reading about anyone trying it neither, but I would look for a bomb if I were you. Running 4 Zeniths just for Veterans, grave hate and a couple 3 drops feels a litttle bit lackluster. I'd run Thragtusk which is an awesome stabilizer if you can relax the blue requirement.