Ruby Storm

Tested endless games by now and I can say I was 100% wrong about Act on Impulse. Someone in a backhanded comment after barely winning a set live yesterday said isn't not running Blue kinda dumb because you lose Brainstorm and Ponder to avoid being in top deck mode and just make that a bad storm deck. Oddly his comment is correct. Act on Impulse bridges that gap as well as HUF and Ill finally stop being stubborn and just run what is correct to play. I started noting cards performance as I played and Reforge was easily the worst card and should be cut from all builds. I also had one of the overall highest value on Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize. They have won endless games at this point. I was also wrong about Defense Grid vs Pyroblast - Blast is better in a heavy SNT kind of meta but in the end Grid eats a counter or allowed me to just win. Also I went on like a 30+ games stretch and not once did I bring in Scab-Clan and even VS storm the hand disruption was just as good and turn 1 for was able to be cast almost for certain and really the card has been overall terrible and been cut or a least removed to test different things.


4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
2x Desperate Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ruby Medallion
2x Helm of Awakening
4x Manamorphose
4x Act on Impulse
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Cabal Therapy
3x Past in Flames
2x Hazoret's Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
2x Empty the Warrens
5x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Badlands

1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Grapeshot
1x Cave-In
1x Meltdown or By Force
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
2x Thoughtseize
2x Defense Grid
2x Rending Volley
2 Open testing slots which were the Scab-Clan slots.

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Originally Posted by Laser Brains

Vieko, I like your new list and saw that you swept your last tourney. I'm testing your exact list right now. There are so many dirty tricks with LED and from my testing and from experience playing Belcher and Burning Reanimator I can't see why they wouldn't be a staple in the deck. LED + Act on Impulse, LED + Burning Wish and LED + Past in Flames etc.. Plus I found that getting the BB for Tendrils was so much easier. It's just too good to not include. It's interesting though that the deck goes off no problem without them as well.

So far I'm not totally sold on the Guttersnipes though. Although, I might just be bad at playing your build. I can't seem to get Guttersnipe to go lethal. Ideally I want to get him in play before I go off but usually by the time I get him there I've had to cast all of my rituals and have no fuel left to get him to deal damage.

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I've been also testing Vieko's build now and I agree on both points. LED is just stupidly good. It's also great with Act on Impulse since the cards don't go in your hand. Also I have issues getting Guttersnipe in play early enough for it to matter. With just two Cities it's hard to play a fast Guttersnipe without using some rituals to cast it and then I'll have less spells to cast afterwards.

Lastly I think I really need to learn to mulligan better.

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Originally Posted by BR3N7

Tested endless games by now and I can say I was 100% wrong about Act on Impulse. Someone in a backhanded comment after barely winning a set live yesterday said isn't not running Blue kinda dumb because you lose Brainstorm and Ponder to avoid being in top deck mode and just make that a bad storm deck. Oddly his comment is correct. Act on Impulse bridges that gap as well as HUF and Ill finally stop being stubborn and just run what is correct to play. I started noting cards performance as I played and Reforge was easily the worst card and should be cut from all builds. I also had one of the overall highest value on Cabal Therapy and Thoughtseize. They have won endless games at this point. I was also wrong about Defense Grid vs Pyroblast - Blast is better in a heavy SNT kind of meta but in the end Grid eats a counter or allowed me to just win. Also I went on like a 30+ games stretch and not once did I bring in Scab-Clan and even VS storm the hand disruption was just as good and turn 1 for was able to be cast almost for certain and really the card has been overall terrible and been cut or a least removed to test different things.


4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
2x Desperate Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Ruby Medallion
2x Helm of Awakening
4x Manamorphose
4x Act on Impulse
4x Gitaxian Probe
2x Cabal Therapy
3x Past in Flames
2x Hazoret's Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
2x Empty the Warrens
5x Mountain
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Badlands

1x Past in Flames
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Grapeshot
1x Cave-In
1x Meltdown or By Force
1x Hazoret's Undying Fury
2x Thoughtseize
2x Defense Grid
2x Rending Volley
2 Open testing slots which were the Scab-Clan slots.

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glad you're happy w/ your build. get some results :P

also one thing worth noting.

"Ill finally stop being stubborn and just run what is correct to play. I started noting cards performance as I played and Reforge was easily the worst card and should be cut from all builds."

i'm not saying you're correct....but i wouldn't make too many blanket statements like that. how have your delver matchups been? running that many non-basics vs a deck w/ wasteland+ counters seems quite risky. it also makes your dnt matchup much worse, although you can fit a massacre in there.

also because you're on empty and therapy, i'd prob just cut the 2 haz and up 1 and 1 respectively.

Pretty sure this deck would be amazing with Pillarfield Ox in it.

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Originally Posted by vieko

LOL did I? Didn't mean to but I've been listening to a ton of Black Dahlia Murder + Lamb of God lately (among others) so who knows the tricks my mind plays on me ;)

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Nice! I've been on a Gojira/Decapitated stint for a couple weeks.

How many Guttersnipes have you been running?

EDIT: Looks like a friend was trolling another friend...apologies.

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Originally Posted by Icapica

I've been also testing Vieko's build now and I agree on both points. LED is just stupidly good. It's also great with Act on Impulse since the cards don't go in your hand. Also I have issues getting Guttersnipe in play early enough for it to matter. With just two Cities it's hard to play a fast Guttersnipe without using some rituals to cast it and then I'll have less spells to cast afterwards.

Lastly I think I really need to learn to mulligan better.

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I feel Guttersnipe shines the brightest when your opponent has survived our early onslaught and stabilized. It comes out of nowhere and will kill them... sometimes off of an Act on Impulse, sometimes just topped with a yard full of cards. I've had T1-T2 victories with it also... remember: he is not our main kill, it is another thing for them to worry about and an alternative should PLAN A goes down the gutter... my 2 cents!

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Originally Posted by Itsallgood

Pretty sure this deck would be amazing with Pillarfield Ox in it.

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Checking... hoping you are not trolling me ;)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Safety

How many Guttersnipes have you been running?

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3-4... mainly 3 and a Gamble

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vieko

checking... Hoping you are not trolling me ;)

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trolled

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Originally Posted by mistercakes

glad you're happy w/ your build. get some results :P

also one thing worth noting.

"Ill finally stop being stubborn and just run what is correct to play. I started noting cards performance as I played and Reforge was easily the worst card and should be cut from all builds."

i'm not saying you're correct....but i wouldn't make too many blanket statements like that. how have your delver matchups been? running that many non-basics vs a deck w/ wasteland+ counters seems quite risky. it also makes your dnt matchup much worse, although you can fit a massacre in there.

also because you're on empty and therapy, i'd prob just cut the 2 haz and up 1 and 1 respectively.

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I had 3 empty but the Haz allows the deck to have bigger bombs and power plays. It is better than Reforge. I toy with the idea of more discard in the main but I would not want more than 3 Cabal and yes you can just make like 8 tokens and Mind Twist your opponent with Cabal which is also good as has won me many games.

Not a blanket statement. I don't like Act on Impulse and I really don't know why honestly like I just don't because it just feels/looks janky AF to me but it does what the deck needs and lacks and feels like Ancestral Recall at times. HUF just cost a lot but thats why I went back to 2 for big play ability. They are correct to play but mainly AoI and HUF is a preference thing.

I run only 2 non-basic more than most and gain more resilience and I would most of the time prefer they hit the Badlands and not the Ancient Tomb with a WL. I also have been stifled on my fetch and boy it felt great to not have to discard that and it won me the game since it was game 1 and they didn't know what I was on.

I really have just bridged the gap of Ruby Storm and TES. Try it a few games and see what I am saying.

The discard spells/Grids make the delver MU not feel as lost and push it closer to even than being a terrible MU and the odds are better I win because of a Thoughtseize than lose because of a Wasteland on my Badlands. DNT already is hard for most storm decks if they get to untap on turn 2 but I run Rending Volley for this reason. I played Ant/TES for a long time and I always consider DnT the ultimate grind MU or the fast 10 token MU. You need to know how many tokens beat Batterskull.

The problem with Massacre is the deck has only 6 virtual Swamps and no reason to ruin the base any further for a card that while clearly better than Cave-In isn't worth it and I love Massacre. I would at that point add Dark Petition and Ad Nausuem and so on and would just play TES again.


I have a odd question are any of you playing this because its cheap or because its fun and can win and just happens to be cheap?

i designed the deck and card availability isn't a problem for me. i can build almost every deck in legacy. i don't have vintage power, but i do have lots of fbb blue duals. i just like trying new ideas. the fact that this is cheap is just coincidence.

vieko also has the most experience with this deck, i really am at a loss for games here as i am quite busy with job + baby. he's also been on this red storm train since more or less its inception. a lot of the things mentioned even to this day we've already tried and canned them.

it's good to see some revisited.

i'd like to ask where are you guys testing your versions?

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Originally Posted by BR3N7

I had 3 empty but the Haz allows the deck to have bigger bombs and power plays. It is better than Reforge. I toy with the idea of more discard in the main but I would not want more than 3 Cabal and yes you can just make like 8 tokens and Mind Twist your opponent with Cabal which is also good as has won me many games.

Not a blanket statement. I don't like Act on Impulse and I really don't know why honestly like I just don't because it just feels/looks janky AF to me but it does what the deck needs and lacks and feels like Ancestral Recall at times. HUF just cost a lot but thats why I went back to 2 for big play ability. They are correct to play but mainly AoI and HUF is a preference thing.

I run only 2 non-basic more than most and gain more resilience and I would most of the time prefer they hit the Badlands and not the Ancient Tomb with a WL. I also have been stifled on my fetch and boy it felt great to not have to discard that and it won me the game since it was game 1 and they didn't know what I was on.

I really have just bridged the gap of Ruby Storm and TES. Try it a few games and see what I am saying.

The discard spells/Grids make the delver MU not feel as lost and push it closer to even than being a terrible MU and the odds are better I win because of a Thoughtseize than lose because of a Wasteland on my Badlands. DNT already is hard for most storm decks if they get to untap on turn 2 but I run Rending Volley for this reason. I played Ant/TES for a long time and I always consider DnT the ultimate grind MU or the fast 10 token MU. You need to know how many tokens beat Batterskull.

The problem with Massacre is the deck has only 6 virtual Swamps and no reason to ruin the base any further for a card that while clearly better than Cave-In isn't worth it and I love Massacre. I would at that point add Dark Petition and Ad Nausuem and so on and would just play TES again.


I have a odd question are any of you playing this because its cheap or because its fun and can win and just happens to be cheap?

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Thanks for the input! Some reactions to your comments:

1. AOI is probably one of the reasons my list (LED) performs as well as it does: not much to look at but when used properly, it will keep your engine going, get you the kill piece(s) or even a land if you are in a tight spot
2. HAZ is too random a card and carries a huge penalty when it whiffs. It is not a good choice for this deck in my opinion. Rob and I wanted it to be (we tried very hard for a while)... not even worth a 1-of spot MB or SB
3. We tried the discard route once upon a time and found it to be lackluster – as you mentioned: you open yourself to Stifle and Wasteland... for what? a chance to slow down your opponent a few turns or maybe steal a piece of their puzzle? I prefer to have redundancy and kill them faster :)
4. If you are after improving your Delver matchup: Defense Grid is solid against them and as long as you don't get suckered into their tempo game, you should be just fine... If you REALLY wanna tilt against them: Blood Moon is evil.
5. D&T is a difficult matchup if they establish their field tax before you get your reduction in play – I'm testing Shattering Spree and Anger of the Gods in the Abrade / Rending Volley spots against them. So far so good!

I've been toying around with this deck a bit for the past ~week and I've found a couple things. BUG is the hardest match up, DRS and force of will is difficult to get around. It's not the worst but those are the two pieces that bottleneck this deck.

Post board dedicated grave hate hurts, rest in piece/leyline, fortunately people are often on the surgical/faerie plan. Maybe I rely on a past in flames loop to much but it's still something I thing needs to be shored up moving forward.

For D&T, Sulfur Elemental. Along with some wish-able board wipes like pyroclasm, or cave-in, elemental puts in so much work. The match up is still hard, but gets a lot better.

Act on Impulse is amazing, helm of awakening is not. The ruby effect is great, I just don't want it to be symmetric *Kanye Shrug*.

As for Hazoret's Undying Fury, whiffing with it hurts, but it is toooooo much fun to pass on. I'm going to stick with it for now, might be wrong but I'm holding out hope.

Good luck everyone.

I saw Insult / Injury posted as a possible card by mistercakes, but has anyone tried it? I haven't been able to try it because I'm actually trying to build the local Legacy community, but it seems really cool if you can't produce :b::b: for Tendrils or get your storm count high enough for a normal Grapeshot. It also seems good for taking out Eidolons or Canonists.

Vieko tried it, I haven't. He said good but not good enough.

Guttersnipe has opened quite the door to seeing creatures as possible options, rather than going all-in spell-based like other storm decks. For DnT I was wondering if something like Grim Lavamancer would be good. Yes he gets hit by removal and eats our graveyard, but imagine the work he could do against Delver/Thalia/Canonist. Sulfur Elemental has been mentioned, which is classic tech. I tried Inferno Titan, but that wasn't feasible because it needed rituals to cast it in enough time to matter, rituals that really couldn't be cast because of Thalia/Canonist.

Any other thoughts on this? Guttersnipe is a great card for simply another game-winning threat (makes me think maindeck Grapeshot is a good move.) Are there other creatures to consider? We probably don't have room, but its worth asking the question (and it reminds me of Burning Vengeance, which is great tech for Past in Flames. Probably not good enough though.)

grim lavamancer would be good in an environment with a lot of DRS and dnt. i'm not sure it helps out regular game in any way, but if the hate is too strong you could consider this an alternate strategy. i wouldn't recommend it b/c it feels like such low impact. worst case is you've lost a few tickets or a weekly playing a card that doesn't work well.

i really want to try abbot of keral keep. it's really only decent with a medallion out, but it does provide some additional win conditions. it's probably bad, but just want to cross everything off the list.

It's a mini-Act on Impulse with a prowess body attached. Great value, but weaker in the sense of generating enough of a specific effect to help the deck win. Cool card, and I think it should be tested, but generally we want to avoid playing fair in the attack phase unless we are attacking with bunches of gobbos.

Maybe I'm crazy and my casual side is coming out...but what about a Dragonstorm sideboard? I don't know if Bogardan Hellkite is the correct card, but 4 copies of Thundermaw Hellkite seems pretty sexy. They could reasonably be cast off of rocks/rituals if drawn and can swing big after Dstorm gets all 4 copies.

So essentially, shooting from the hip, it would be 5-7 cards in the sideboard: 1 copy of Dragonstorm and 4-6 copies of dragons (maybe 4x BogHell and 2x ThunderKite.) How unexpected would it be to do Grapeshot g1, and then DRAGONS game 2?

If we are considering creatures, I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread but I had monastery swiftspear in my guttersnipe deck as kind of an extra punch through. 1/2 for R that comes with prowess and haste. The dragon idea seems pretty cool but, without testing, I'd say its probably best as a casual idea haha. A+ for creativity though!

And to the person who asked above, I'm in this deck because its fun and cheap. I don't have the legacy staples built back up yet so this seemed like a fun way to get a competitive deck without breaking the bank. Obviously I'm not on the LED plan :). And I'm not playing it anywhere other than against my other decks. My legacy night at the local LGS is on the same night as class. Ah well.

Young Pyromancer seems pretty perfect as an option to board into. Very low investment, good synergy with the Empty plan [edit: and with Cabal Therapy, if you're using it], good next to Guttersnipe. Sorry if this was already suggested. Only problem is it's answered by the same cards that answer the goblin tokens. Another option, if you're splashing black, could be Bitterblossom. It can both serve as defense and as offense, although a bit slow on the offense it still needs to be answered.