[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by georgjorge

Those sound like they could be used...just imagine dropping the 7/7 off a first-turn Lackey...

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Didn't think about that. However, the 7/7 can help as a tutorable way of working around plague too. Unfortunately that's not going to work with 2x Plague, unless you do it in resp or play Goon.

However, I'm waiting for some good Tribal or Changeling answers to Combo, Goyf, and Enchantments/artifacts (main problems of gobbos right now). A tribal/changeling disenchant would be great.

Hey, I just realized that some changeling tech would be great against slivers! it would be great to see that 7/7 becoming an 8/8, flying, untargettable, hasted dude. :tongue:

What do you think of this build?
I switched from white splash to green and will test 2 Berserks MD. It can be very surprising i think...

4X Goblin Piledriver
4X Goblin Ringleader
4X Gempalm Incinerator
4X Goblin Lackey
4X Goblin Matron
4X Goblin Warchief
3X Mogg Fanatic
2X Siege-Gang Commander
2X Tin Street Hooligan
1X Goblin Sharpshooter

4X Æther Vial
2X Berserk

4X Mountain
3X Wooded Foothills
4X Taiga
3X Bloodstained Mire
4X Rishadan Port
4X Wasteland



// sideboard

4X Tormod’s Crypt
3X Krosan Grip
4X Chalice of the Void
3X Pyrokinesis


Any suggestions for Sideboard? It needs some changements i think...

Boggart Mob 3b
Creature - Goblin Warrior Rare
Champion a Goblin (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another Goblin you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Whenever a Goblin you control deals combat damage to a player, put a 1/1 black Goblin Warrior creature token into play.
5/5

Black splash looking tempting?

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Originally Posted by kabal

Boggart Mob 3b
Creature - Goblin Warrior Rare
Champion a Goblin (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another Goblin you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Whenever a Goblin you control deals combat damage to a player, put a 1/1 black Goblin Warrior creature token into play.
5/5

Black splash looking tempting?

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mEH.

There's so much more bomb in Seige-Gang and Kiki-Jiki. It's completely win-more.

Maybe, maybe not on the big guy. Championing a Ringleader or Matron would be amusingly awesome. I don't think he's worth the black splash on his own, but he's better than most of the black I've seen and if you're already running black, he's considerable.

I suppose the biggest thing we need to remember about Goblins though is that if multiple Goblins are hitting and getting through, we're probably winning. We lose to certain fast combo decks, decks with answers we can't get rid of, and decks packing nifty hate like Clasm and Plague backed up by other awesome shit.

So I'm probably forced to conclude he'd at least some of the time be win more, but maybe not always. The 5/5 body would be more valuable than the ability.

There are a lot of nice black goblins in the new set!

The problem is, what to take out? Maybe Mog? I dont know...

What is the weakest Goblin in Vial Goblins?
Mog? I dont know... but postboard i play mostly without Mog!



I think whene you change the goblin deck then it must be:

1.) Changes that are very small so that you still could do the same stuff vial goblins does...

or

2.) Big Changes that makes a different Goblin deck! (Maybe Goblin-aggro control...)

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Originally Posted by kabal

Boggart Mob 3b
Creature - Goblin Warrior Rare
Champion a Goblin (When this comes into play, sacrifice it unless you remove another Goblin you control from the game. When this leaves play, that card returns to play.)
Whenever a Goblin you control deals combat damage to a player, put a 1/1 black Goblin Warrior creature token into play.
5/5

Black splash looking tempting?

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This guy is SWEET against aggro control or control. He can combat Goyfs, and like someone else said, he'd be the nuts with a matron or a ringleader. He may not be super fast, but I think he would be a house if the game goes mid/late. He def warrents some testing.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

What is the weakest Goblin in Vial Goblins?

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Piledriver. Seriously.

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Originally Posted by TeenieBopper

Piledriver. Seriously.

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I would say its a tossup between Piledriver and Matron. Piledriver is great for the combo-style kills, but its too reliant on you overextending into mass removal. Matron's tutor effect is strong, but it's still a 1/1 for 3. Late game chaining one into a ringleader is great, but early on it's just absolutely terrible.

I was under the impression that Piledriver was a great goblin.

I'm guessing that Siege-Gang Commander is MVP?

Piledriver is the weakest goblin in the deck because it doesn't do anything, especially not by itself. You could replace Piledriver with just about any creature and not a whole lot would change. There'd be less Ringleader synergy, but that's about it. At least SGC gives you good Wrath recovery and some utility.

Think about old school Long.dec. Was it all about Tendrils of Agony? No. You could've replaced Tendril's with Grapeshot. Goblin Piledriver=Tendril's of Agony.

http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1189980333

WOW. Just wow..

EDIT
Is this really real? Im freakin out.

Why? its like the goblin king, or do you think the regenerate is important? (I think you dont need it)

Mvg

Of course the regen is great. You keep your Piledrivers. Regen is tech against huge attacking goyfs. It costs :2::b: which is easier than :1::r::r:. You actually want this in the mirror unlike Goblin King of suicide.

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Originally Posted by TeenieBopper

Piledriver is the weakest goblin in the deck because it doesn't do anything, especially not by itself. You could replace Piledriver with just about any creature and not a whole lot would change. There'd be less Ringleader synergy, but that's about it. At least SGC gives you good Wrath recovery and some utility.

Think about old school Long.dec. Was it all about Tendrils of Agony? No. You could've replaced Tendril's with Grapeshot. Goblin Piledriver=Tendril's of Agony.

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OMG...that is funny...you ARE joking right?...piledriver is ONE of the main reasons that Goblin Warchief is such a threat. Piledriver just wins games that you have no business winning. Piledriver forces your opponent to make decisions and loose cards that they don't want to. without piledriver, you wouldn't have a possible turn 3 win and the deck wouldn't be nearly as competative against combo and such. have you ever actually PLAYED the deck before? seriously

On a side note, I know it seems really janky and it probably is, but have you guys taken a look at "Fodder Launch" yet?

Tribal Sorcery - Goblin
As an additional cost to play Fodder Launch, sacrifice a Goblin.
Target creature gets -5/-5 until end of turn. Fodder Launch deals 5 damage to that creature's controller.

its a funny card, but I thought it was cool that you could play it for B2 with a warchief out

I don't see how you can try to come across as a goblins expert and suggest fodder launch in the same sentence.

The bottom line is that goblins is definitely seeing some serious problems with the long upswing that combo has been on, combined with tarmogoyf making the thresh matchup much more difficult. It's really easy to run around mindlessly criticizing people who are trying to evaluate what can be changed about the deck without offering anything helpful yourself.

What do you think should come out if Piledriver is so critical?

I have a strategy question:

You have a hand with: Vial, Mountain, Wasteland, Lakey, Goblin Matron, Goblin Matron, SGC

You are on the play!
What do you play Vial or lakey?
Against thresh-decks, combo, Mirror, Angel Stompy and Fary Stompy?

What do you play if the SGC is another Mountain?

I usualy play always Lakey but is that the correct play!?

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Originally Posted by sammiel

I don't see how you can try to come across as a goblins expert and suggest fodder launch in the same sentence.

The bottom line is that goblins is definitely seeing some serious problems with the long upswing that combo has been on, combined with tarmogoyf making the thresh matchup much more difficult. It's really easy to run around mindlessly criticizing people who are trying to evaluate what can be changed about the deck without offering anything helpful yourself.

What do you think should come out if Piledriver is so critical?

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Actually I never "claimed" or said anything whatsoever about being a goblins "expert" (but I don't think that you and teeniebopper are either), but if you actually read my post you can see a variety of reasons why Piledriver is really good in this deck and should <b>probably</b> not be cut. Mainly because he gives the deck a super fast clock and makes it competative with combo. Also, if you couldn't tell by the way I wrote, I wasn't super serious about Fodder Launch either but was merely pointing it out as another answer to goyf and a potential finisher. I personally think that Boggart Mob is way better and actually warrents some testing. But just because I don't spend all of my time on the source posting a bunch of junk, doesn't mean that I don't know shit about goblins (and yea, I actually DO play the deck sometimes).
Anyhow, I think I agree with whoever said that mogg finatic is the weakest link. That or Seige gang.
The real problem is that the deck is compact as it is and all of the creatures in the deck are really good, which makes it really hard to cut one or say which is the weakest. its really hard to have a strong game against both aggro-control and combo because the cards you want against the the one deck, are opposite of the ones you want against the other.
I don't think there is any way, but if there were a way to maindeck Challice, than I think that would be pretty sweet.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

I have a strategy question:

You have a hand with: Vial, Mountain, Wasteland, Lakey, Goblin Matron, Goblin Matron, SGC

You are on the play!
What do you play Vial or lakey?
Against thresh-decks, combo, Mirror, Angel Stompy and Fary Stompy?

What do you play if the SGC is another Mountain?

I usualy play always Lakey but is that the correct play!?

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I'd lead with Vial here against an unknown deck. Since your hand curves rather high (at 3cc, then 5cc) and you only see 2 lands (1 of which may be used to nuke a nonbasic), I'd feel much safer with Vial out, rather than Lackey who eats every type of removal out there. If Vial resolves, go nuts and play Lackey the next turn or Vial it in at end of turn.

Thresh: Lead with Vial. They only have Force to stop it (okay, and maybe Pithing Needle). For Lackey, they have Force, Swords to Plowshares/Lightning Bolt, and Nimble Mongoose.

Combo: Lead with Lackey, you're going balls to the wall here.

Angel Stompy: This is tough. You're probably going to lose this matchup regardless. Go with Vial so you always have the backup SGC plan.

Faerie Stompy: Also tough. Lead with Vial so you can still get Lackey into play if they go turn one Chalice@1.

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Originally Posted by HdH_Cthulhu

I have a strategy question:

You have a hand with: Vial, Mountain, Wasteland, Lakey, Goblin Matron, Goblin Matron, SGC

You are on the play!
What do you play Vial or lakey?
Against thresh-decks, combo, Mirror, Angel Stompy and Fary Stompy?

What do you play if the SGC is another Mountain?

I usualy play always Lakey but is that the correct play!?

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I believe leading with Lackey is always the correct play, especially against control b/c I would rather have a aether vial stick then a lackey in most scenarios against control. Plus, with the hand above, you have wasteland to help against control decks that don't play a lot of basics. I think lackey first turn is always the correct play.

I can see in some situations that a first turn vial would be a better play, but I'm always trying to get the vial to stick rather then lackey. I always love to see your opponent using force of will on lackey which tells you that they don't have many answers for your creatures in the early game.