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That shell is pretty good, in my opinion all lists should have 3X Dread Return and 4X Ichorid, which leaves 3 slots open, which I fill with a 4th Mine and 2 Gamble. I suppose if those last 3 spots were something that didnt cost mana like Street Wraith or Leyline you may be ok with 7 rainbow lands, but Id rather be able to cast Gamble and my SB cards more reliably.
Glad to see your on top of things. :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bovinious
The more 'free' slots in the deck, which also includes Ceph Sage, the less lands you need. Thats the minimal number I recommend when keeping sb cards in mind.
I think the deck can go to three Ichy's if running Leyline of the Void. Remember this. If bridge can become that primary you only need 3 ichy as fodder and slight back up. Dread Return is the most frequently sb'ed out card.
I forgot to mention Street Wraith, Im glad you brought him up. His power level goes up according to how powered the deck can be. What I mean by this is perhaps better when refered to as manaless. Also his use goes up depending on how many FoW's you want to dodge. He's so good with Bazaar.. :frown:
I've been recently working on a better Sideboard for this deck. First I thought that unmask could be quite good. But soon I noticed that removing black cards is not good in this Deck. Then I tried Duress and it was really good as an answer to hate and against combo. Of course Duress is much more effectice when you are on the play, so if either you have lost game 1 or for Game 3 when you know what kind of hate you are facing.
When Lorwyn becomes tournament legal thoughtseize will be the most versatile answer to everything but leyline. It even gets rid of Mogg fanatic and Tarmogoyf. To be able to cast Thoughtseize constantly I added another land and cut an Ichorid for it.
What do you think of Thoughtsize in the sideboard?
I'm not a Thoughtseize fan here.
Leyline handles Mogg Fanatic and Tarmogoyf just as effectively if not moreso.
Leyline doesnt really answer Tarmogoyf because of the number of card types you will inevitably be dredging into your own yard. Fortunately, just winning is a pretty solid answer to goyf.
About how much would a descent Ichorid deck run? Just looking at the lists I am going to take a wild guess at around $325. I have been thinking about taking up another deck, so I would like to know what the damage to my wallet might be.
4 LEDs at ~ 12, 4 Gemstone Mines at ~6, 4 City of Brass at ~5, 4 Ichorid at ~5, 4 Bridge at ~8, then SB Needles and Leylines. Its not that expensive actually, I guess it depends what you have for it already.
It answers Tarmogoyf in the only sense it's important to do so, in that it keeps Tarmogoyf from going to the opponent's graveyard. Other than that, you're exactly right. The solution to Tarmogoyf or any other nondisruptive creature is to just win.Quote:
Originally Posted by outsideangel
Far far less than that. Ichorid's buildable for under $200. There isn't a rare in it that costs more than $6-8.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEvilTeaCup
For what it's worth, I like the full playset of Ray of Revelation. There's so few artifacts that hurt you and so many enchantments, ranging from Leyline to Elephant Grass to Ghostly Prison to the ever common Engineered Plague (Try winning with two Plagues on Illusions and Horrors, especially after they Extirpate your Bridge from Below. It's tricky.) I feel like quad Ray serves better than a lot of the dead SB slots.Quote:
Originally Posted by Muradin
Oh nice. Thats probably less than the cost of Thresh's manabase... Anyway, how does playing this deck feel in comparison to other combo decks? What about other decks in general? The deck looks like a blast to play, and it is plenty competitive. Is there any room for creativity and originality in this deck? Thanks and maybe next tourney you journey to, you might notice this odd tea cup wielding mofo across the table with a deck oddly similar to yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Well usually all combo decks are different and play different. I used to play test the deck a bit and found it extremely fun. The problem I had with it was that it is dependent on luck a lot. Like getting the LED or Breakthrough or getting enought bridges and nars in the GY. It was probably my skill at playing the deck most of the time, but sometimes you could just get unlucky and not get those things. It does have good MUs like Thresh.
I have been using this deck for a bit and I personally think that Leyline of the Void maindecked playset is a great idea. It keeps your Bridges safe and it weakens or Cripples other Graveyard based decks [Breakfeast, Thresh, Ichorid].
I do have one question though: is there some sort of card that can give my Trolls trample? If there is, would there be a way to implement it into this deck?
Don't ask why as I want to use this as my "secret tech". :wink:
There's Brawn if you're using fetchlands and Arbors, or Wonder and Traitor's Clutch for other kinds of evasion.
How about Sylvan Might?
Instant 1G
Target creature gets +2/+2 and gains trample until end of turn. Flashback 2GG (You may play this card from your graveyard for its flashback cost. Then remove it from the game.)
You can pop it off for "only" at the cost of a LED and then some more mana. Now that is tech. >_>
Or, you can try Defy Gravity, if you just want flying.
U Instant
Target creature gains flying until end of turn.
Flashback U
Or you can Dread Return a Smogsteed Rider or Sun Quan, Lord of Wu.
Now thats some super secret tech. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynel
I might go use the brawn: only problem is the fact I'd have to get more Tropical Islands and I'm using my only playset in my Thresh deck. :frown:
Ichorid feels like no other deck. The first thirty or fifty times you play it, you'll find it awkward, inconsistent, and incredibly bizarre, kind of like how a typical player used to do with Solidarity at first attempt. However, with practice and effort, it becomes natural and deadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordEvilTeaCup
The creativity and originality comes largely in the sideboarding. Many many many things fall under the "Danger of Cool Things" label in Ichorid, and it's one of the only decks I've ever seen where you have to go out of your way to find cards worth sideboarding. 4 Leyline of the Void is mandatory in SB. The other 11 slots are kind of up for debate. Chain of Vapor is common due to it being insanely easy to cast and useful against Leyline. Ancient Grudge and Ray of Revelation are both complete powerhouses. Other options that have been tried include Pithing Needle, Chalice of the Void, Duress, and Force of Will, none of which have done much to prove themselves worthwhile. So the sideboard's still got room for improvement.
Maindeck Leyline's a metagame call, although I'd like to go on record to say that Leyline of the Void doesn't cripple Threshold at all considering you're going to make their Tarmogoyfs enormous on your own quite effectively. I personally don't like it, but I'd do it in certain metagames.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
As far as the trolls, giving them trample would be a waste of a slot considering that on the whole you should be getting one into play about one out of ten games, if not even less frequently. I played through an entire tournament tonight (4-0, won top 4) and only brought a Grave-Troll in play once out of all the games (Against Burn.)
However, if you wanted to make a Troll evasive, Defy Gravity would be the only acceptable way to do it, in my opinion. D.G. is one of the only things you can semi-reliably cast in the midgame.
I played this at Croatian legacy champs and entered top8 with 4-0-2 score, i played against mono black aggro, some kind of loam control, landstill and *****. I lost first top8 round to ***** due to deck fizzling horribly in first game and hate in game two.
Heres the list i played, only thing i did not test was gamble.
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Cephalid Sage
1 Flame-Kin Zealot
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
2 Golgari Thug
4 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Putrid Imp
4 Breakthrough
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Deep Analysis
3 Dread Return
4 Bridge from Below
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 4 Pithing Needle
SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 Cabal Therapy
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Ray of Revelation
SB: 1 Cephalid Sage
Excellent performance mixer! I am no position to comment on your list due to me being a Ichorid virgin... That sounded awkward, but I think that is probably the best term for someone who has never played this deck :laugh:. It does seem very unique.
Hmmm, I really like the fact that this deck is still pretty open as far as SB goes. It means perhaps in some delusional part of my mind, I could be of help and bring a deck further in its develop. Its a nice thought anyway.
@ Mixer: you absolutely NEED 4 Cabal Therapy MD, I'd go down to 3 Ichorids before 3 Therapys, but would optimally keep 4 of each.
Could mixer also cut 1-2 lands? Would the deck still function optimally?