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Yeah, I don't get why they can't work more basics in. On a related topic, how does 3c landstill deal with dragon stompy? What are correct plays against bombs like chalice @1, moon effects and high cc creatures on turns 1 and 2 with no swords or force in hand? It seems like stompy is specifically designed to nuke this deck, 3c or 4. I haven't gotten to test against much except various thresh builds, agro-loam and muc.
I have yet to loose to Dstompy with DiF's version of landstill... they just have no way with dealing with your CA/quality, aside from hoping they screw you... most of the time, you will be able to FoW/swords an early creature...challice @1 isn't too scary, as you have explosives for that and moon (which incidently gives you the third color to kill the moon a good number of times)...
My old build would run disk, which totally rapes these such decks.
The biggest problem I have is that I suck at winning the roll, and in my metagame there are 3 DS decks which are each lucky and always seem to go "2land, red mana moon effect." I am still 50/50 with them, but its because they are lucky. This has caused me to reinsert the 1 BEB in the board so I have 3 more outs to BM.
I played my first tourney with UWb Landstill today in Braunschweig/Germany and finished with a rather disappointing 1-2-1. I went with a near exact copy of klaus' list (another Cunning Wish instead of Jace + 3rd Halo instead of 4th Meddling Mage).
1st round vs. Dreaded Baseruption: Draw
I don't remember much, but it was annoying as hell. He countertops, stiflenoughts, needles and I answer with Humility, Wrath and Return to Dust until the extraturn and we end up drawing.
2nd round vs. Welder Survival: Win
1st round I pwn him with Humility after he admits that he has ne maindeck answer to it. 2nd round I start with Crypt in hand and remove his graveyard after I countered his Survival, which he fetched with Intuition. I do continuous Mishra beatdown until he plays Platinum Angel, but I topdeck Wrath and go in for the win.
3rd round vs. Moon Survival: Lose
I pwnt myself in Game 1. I knew he was maindecking 3 Magus of the Moon and I could have won Game 1 but I put down Engineered Explosives for 2 (in fear of Survival) instead of 3, so guess who's coming down the moment I realize my mistake? Magus beatdown FTL...
Game 2 he resolves a Survival, lays down Gaddock Teeg, extirpates my Swords to Plowshares and Decrees and I die to weenie beatdown...
4th round vs. Burn: Lose
Game 1: death by burn!!! Game 2 he burns me down to 7 and I manage to stay alive by swording my Mishras, but my Cunning Wish for Pulse of the Fields gets BEBed and I die...
All in all it was a neat little tourney and despite my bad performance, I really had fun playing the deck. Unfortunately I wasn't paired against all these nice little Aggro Decks in the tourney. :frown:
What did your boarding plans look like?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodOfHouse
vs. Baseruption:Quote:
Originally Posted by klaus
-3 Standstill; +3 Runed Halo
vs. Welder Survival:
-4 Standstill, -1 Fact or Fiction; +2 Extirpate, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +2 Runed Halo
vs. Survival:
same as with Welder Survival
vs. Burn:
-3 Wrath of God, -2 Humility, -3 Engineered Explosives; +3 Runed Halo, +2 Extirpate, +3 Meddling Mage
Why? Standstill is a great draw spell here. If you really wanted to bring in Halos (which is debatable, given all the EE@2 you'll blow up, and that Baseruption has a more diversified threat base than Thresh) why not cut Wrath instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGodOfHouse
Again, they can't play around Standstill, so there's no reason to cut it. Secondly, I see little purpose in boarding in Runed Halo, given that their threats are so diversified (unless you meant to name Cabal Therapy with it, but I'd rather have a Draw 3 against it anyway).Quote:
vs. Welder Survival:
-4 Standstill, -1 Fact or Fiction; +2 Extirpate, +1 Tormod's Crypt, +2 Runed Halo
vs. Survival:
same as with Welder Survival
It's difficult to say what you should side out here, because everything in your deck is good against them (that's what's called "a good problem to have", btw). But -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Cunning Wish, -1 Fact or Fiction, +2 Extirpate, +1 Crypt seems a better plan than the one you used.
You're probably right about the Standstill but I was somehow afraid of mox-powered T1 Dreadnought/Confidant, so boarded out Standstill preemptively. The Halos were great against Dreadnought and Tarmogoyf, especially since my EEs got needled. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
Again I felled Standstill was a little to slow, next time I'll keep em MD. I think I boarded it in against big artifact critters, but I never one besides Platinum Angel.Quote:
Again, they can't play around Standstill, so there's no reason to cut it. Secondly, I see little purpose in boarding in Runed Halo, given that their threats are so diversified (unless you meant to name Cabal Therapy with it, but I'd rather have a Draw 3 against it anyway).
As I said before, it was my first (Legacy) tourney and I'm still quite inexperienced with the deck, so your comments are helpful to me. Thanks!Quote:
It's difficult to say what you should side out here, because everything in your deck is good against them (that's what's called "a good problem to have", btw). But -1 Crucible of Worlds, -1 Cunning Wish, -1 Fact or Fiction, +2 Extirpate, +1 Crypt seems a better plan than the one you used.
unless your opponent is packing factorys and or mutavault, boarding out standstill is like boarding out ancestral recall, Just not a good idea. Cunning wish FoF and either wrath or crucible usualy get the boot.
Actually, if your meta is starting to run more and more cards like Factories, Mutavaults, and Treetop Village, it's recommended that you cut your Tolaria West, Academy Ruins, and Dust Bowl for 3 WASTELANDS! Holy crap, why am I running that crap again? Well, even without Ruins, you should beat Thresh anyway, and of course, Wastelands greatly aid your mirror + other random stuff. I beat a deck with Treetop Villages not too long ago at a tournament.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Actually, at my local just last friday night, I actually lost to a green deck (very terrible, I was upset at loosing) simply do to that fact that I top-decked into all four of my standstills after my opponent had gotten a treetop on board...
The irony was that it was the loss that put me out of contention; and that this is like the only time that drawing excess SSs would be bad :frown: ...
Oh well, win some, lose some, that's why we play them out.
I think i only cut standstill in the mirror and against deck that use manlands. I tend also to cut them if my opponent play with Aether vial.
To sum up :
standstill goes out against
landstill
43.land deck
goblin : Aether vial/Goblin lackey are major problem, since it allows them to play around standstill. Id rather have blue blast (oh yes, i play those blast, because i am a bad player :))
fast aggro deck that has a lot of 1cc drops. IE elves, WW.
and any other deck using manlands
sandstill is such a powerful card both in terms of card advantage but also in term of psychological advantage that i see no reason cutting them. If opponent gets intimidated by Landstill, you are gaining a major advantage there.
I know once that my opponent cut the standstill while playing against me (i was UGW ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh). That was a huge mistake in my opinion. ThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh simply does not have enough threat to make standstill "ueseless". He still won the game, but it took a hell lot of time, because he was working on topdeck. It's just incredible to be able to wipe everything with a pernicious deed, and then drop a standstill. That is the most incredible play imo :)
Robert
I actually never side out every STandstill. Even against Goblins and decks like WW you still need some CA to keep up with cards like Ringleader. You donīt need them until turn 1-4/5 so itīs right to take 1-2 out but after you wrathed/humilated theyre board they still are Ancestrals.
Unless they have a vial out.Quote:
Originally Posted by NQN
I wanted to bring this decklist to a local tourney. I decided to build UWb landstill and was wondering whether this list is optimal for a meta that consists primarily of thresh, dreadstill, dragon stompy, TES, and Ichorid.
Main board//
Lands:
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tundra
2 Islands
2 Wasteland
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Academy ruins
1 Scrubland
1 Plains
1 Tolaria West
Spells:
4 Brainstorm
4 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Standstill
3 Wrath of God
3 Humility
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Cunning Wish
2 Decree of Justice
2 Crucible of Worlds
Board//
4 MMage
4 Extripate
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Shattering Spree
1 BeB
4 Lelyne of the Void
I don't board out Standstill against anything other than Ichorid. Standstill is a bomb against any aggro deck, what's the reasoning for taking it out against Goblins? Aether Vial? We run 4x Force of Will and 3x EE, I've never had a problem keeping Vial out of play. Atleast in my build I also have Humility whitch can allow for later game plays of Standstill with Vial still in play if you are holding a Decree.
The deck wins with the cards gained from Standstill, if someone is playing something that is preventing you from casting Standstill, play cards that will allow you to deal with the problem and allow you to cast Standstill. My builds are posted all over this thread and other than Ichorid I see no reason to take out Standstill against anything I have ever played against.
Things like Vial and Bitterblossom are the reason I have always run Disenchant effects in the MD. If you board out Standstill you are turning the deck into a subpar multi colored control deck with a lame draw engine of Brainstorm and 2-3 Fact or Fictions. We play a very situational draw engine that requires deck tayloring to include forethought for certain board conditions, it's the price of playing Standstill. In my opinion atleast if you aren't boarding into a different draw engine, your SB needs to include answers to anything that could stop you from being able to cast Standstill. Ichorid of course being the exception.
I usually side out the Standstill to get more removal in the aggro matchup. Yes it gives CA. But it does suck to wait until you resolve EE/Deed before playing it.
In the mirror, i dont keep the Standstill. Why? If he get more mishra's out, im screwed. If he gets more wasteland, im screwed. These are situations that happen. And because of, that i feel that it is better to side them out.
Against fast aggro : Standstill are only good if they have nothing. So that means that to get a standstill in play, you need first to wipe out the bord first. So until you can get the bord cleaned, your deck, as you describe, is a subpar control deck. That's just too much condition for me. Id rather get extra removals.
Oh sorry, i didnt played UGW landstill. I played the 4c with goyfs and Tombstalker to get faster kill. That can make a difference, i guess.
Robert
You need CA in the mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
You need CA against aggro to keep drawing removal and counters.
Just trading one for one against aggro is bad.
Agreed!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jak.
I have had as much success with this deck as anybody I have ever met or heard of and I promise you that boarding out Stanstill is a horrible idea, reconfigure the deck to deal with your issue's.
Horde's of creature's? Wrath of God? Who the hell care's if you draw 3 extra cards on turn 2 or turn ten, it's still a 2 mana Ancestral in Legacy. In most games you can win of the card advantage of one single Standstill but they need to be in the deck for it to work.
Landstill is horrible in the attrition war, granted it gets better if you have a threat in Tombstalker or Goyf but you still have an incredibly high land count that will screw you over time without card quantity draw. If you are trying to play Standstill in an aggro control shell then you are in the wrong forum.
My builds include UW, UWG, UWB, UWGB not just the one in the most recent post and I switch back and forth between them as the Meta shifts and none of thier SB strategies against anything include boarding out Standstill.
Quote:
Originally Posted by konsultant
Do you still board out FoF anymore? I usually find boarding out FoF bad because of the lack of card advantage, especially applied to the UWg lists with 18 Blue cards maindeck. I always love seeing myself being able to draw cards so I can prepare for threats before they appear. Also, FoF splitting also gives me an idea of whether my opponent might be slow-rolling their threats or not.