What about the ethereal forager? seems good in this deck as well, instead of murktide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Unfortunately i dont have murks (but got katherines and whales) :) those will have to do for now!
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What about the ethereal forager? seems good in this deck as well, instead of murktide.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
Unfortunately i dont have murks (but got katherines and whales) :) those will have to do for now!
I really like it, I think it deserves a test
Sailors Bane over forger imo. I counted 26 support cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
Or the new whale. What's a 4/4 to a 7/5
if we stay uw the first choice is the regent (it is the easiest to play) the second is St. Catherine because she can easily play in turn 3 the third possibility is to also play green and play uro. all the others can be tested but in general they are worse (because they put little pressure/because they don't gain an advantage/because they go down a round later etc..etc..)
The problem is not if it gets answered, but paying the mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
Stifle + Nulldrifter = 4 lands
Dress Down + Nulldrfiter = 3 lands
Thrull + Nulldrifter = 3 lands
4 lands is not easy with 18 lands, Wasteland, Daze, etc.
Stifle is also the worst one with Dreadnought. Maybe Stifle should be 3 copies. See this Ark4n Challenge Top 8 list with 3 Stifle: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55839&d=615613&f=LE
This seems like a good starting point for UW
//Lands: 18
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
1 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
1 Plains
//Threats: 10
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
2 Murktide Regent
//Enablers: 10
3 Stifle
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Dress Down
//Core UW Spells: 16
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
Total = 54 cards main
Those are the best threats and spells. Can't go lower than 18 lands or 10 enablers. Leaves room for 6 more.
Competing for those last 6 slots:
4 Daze
2 Brazen Borrower
2 Lorien Revealed
1 Stifle
1 Doorkeeper Thrull
1 Murktide Regent
1 Otawara, Soaring City
1 blue fetch/dual
4 Daze + 2 Borrower matches past discussion.
Maybe 3 Daze + 1 Borrower + 1 Otawara + 1 Thrull
For the sideboard this looks good
//Side: 15
2 Force of Negation
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
2 Null Rod
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
1 Flusterstorm
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Ugin's Binding
Unlicensed Hearse is proven strong in Dreadnought. You can Crew with evoke Nulldrifter, even if you don't keep the creature.
Ugin's Binding has potential with Nulldrifter in slower grindy matches.
Dress+ nulldrifther 3 Land?
Why not +1 dress and +1 stifle
Turn 2 Dress Down/Thrull end of turnQuote:
Originally Posted by babau
Turn 3 Nulldrifter
3 lands needed.
Stifle+Nulldrifter needs 4 lands & Turn 4 or later.
in some matchups you want both null rod and grave hate, doesnt unlicensed hearse make a bad gravehate choice because of that?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Dress down Need sacrifie It at the end of turn;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
If you play regent and nulldrifther
slip out the back Is possibile Better that
Dress down.
If you cast it on your op's end step it won't sacrifice until the next endstep at the end of your turnQuote:
Originally Posted by babau
In what matches? If it's a common problem, Containment Priest should work over Hearse. It also answers any cheatyface Eldrazi stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
These recent lists all ran Null Rod with Hearse:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56016&d=617310&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55839&d=615613&f=LE
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=55657&d=614220&f=LE
Slip Out the Back+Nulldrifter is also 4 lands & turn 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
If you don't know how to do Turn 2 Dress Down Turn 3 Nulldrifter, you're missing good lines to the deck!
Truly? this is new to me I thought it couldn't be done....but thinking about it for a moment (I'm a noob ;-)) then it's a really strong play.Quote:
Originally Posted by FourDogsinaHorseSuit
4 dress;-) stable
stuff like painter or storm to name a coupleQuote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Hmm for both those matches there are enough tools already: 2 Surgical, 2 Force of Negation, 2 Null Rod, Flusterstorm. Also blue blasts & Prismatic Ending vs Painter. Plus maindeck Force, Daze, Stifle. Don't need to bring in 15 cards. We can attack such combo decks on enough angles without needing 4x grave hate.Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
Same with Cephalid Breakfast. We don't need Hearse. 2 Surgical, 2 Force of Negation, Null Rod, Flusterstorm, 4 Force of Will, 3 Stifle, 4 Dress Down, 3-4 Thrull... They are not getting anywhere with Thassa's Oracle or Stoneforge.
These matchups are easy wins. Don't need overkill hate.
Fair midrange matchups are harder. That's also where Hearse shines, slowly eating away at graveyard resources and threatening to 1-shot them.
great explanation, thank you for that :))Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
Top 4 Legacy Challenge June 1st 2024: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56138&d=618212&f=LE
Bant Pre-MH3 Nought
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Savannah
1 Meticulous Archive
1 Island
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Uro, Titan of Nature's Wrath
2 Murktide Regent
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Life from the Loam
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Sideboard: 15
2 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Force of Negation
2 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Null Rod
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
2 Veil of Summer
For UW with Nulldrifter, we get about the same shell but cleaner mana.
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Otawara, Soaring City
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Nulldrifter
2 Murktide Regent
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Stifle
4 Daze
1 Ugin's Binding
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Sideboard: 15
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Hydroblast
2 Force of Negation
2 Prismatic Ending
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Unlicensed Hearse
1 Null Rod
1 Wrath of the Skies
1 Flusterstorm
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Back to Basics
Exact numbers on Narset, Null Rod & B2B will depend on the meta. Starting as 1-ofs for now.
Teferi, Time Raveler might be better for removing noncreatures than bounce like Brazen Borrower.
Wrath of the Skies looks worth testing.
For WW it kills: Artifact lands, Urza's Saga, Constructs, Chalice of the Void, Moxes, Petals, Baubles, Orc armies, Rhinos, random tokens
For 1WW it kills all those plus: Delver, DRC, Vexing Bauble, Vial, Mother of Runes, Elvish Reclaimer, Elves, Stalactite Stalker, Exploration, Needle, random artifact trinkets, 1-mana flip walkers
For 2WW it kills those plus: Beanstalk, Bowmaster, Questing Druid, Thalia, Animate Dead, Stoneforge, Patchwork Automaton, Painter's Servant, Goblin Engineer, many Goblins, many things
Nulldrifter & Murktide are both safe from it!
as we are playing like a tempo deck, ist hullbreacher better then narset?Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
atm im thinking about ratchet bomb/powder keg, instead of wrath.
is prismatic ending worth in the uw shell even with access to only 2 colors?
Good questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
Narset is for midrange/control matchups like Beans. Narset shuts off their draw engine and is harder to answer, while they have a ton of answers for Hullbreacher. We are not really speed-running those matches, just trying to not get blown out by all their removal. Narset replaces itself so you always trade positively, which helps in that fight. Hullbreacher often just trades 1-for-1 with a 1-mana removal.
Powder Keg was great pre-MH3. Tough to evaluate it vs Wrath post-MH3. Powder Keg does the job well but misses enchantments. I like that Wrath is "X or less" instead of "equal to X". Wrath answers artifact lands, Urza's Saga, constructs, and cheap artifacts all at once. Deserves testing.
Ratchet Bomb hits more permanents but misses Artifact lands and Urza's Saga. Blue artifacts look to be strong post-MH3. But it's hard to predict the new meta.
Prismatic Ending is worse with 2 colors. The deck needs noncreature removal though. March of Otherworldly Light is underwhelming too. Maybe the slot is better as another Wrath of the Skies, Ratchet Bomb, Powder Keg, or Serenity. Needs testing.
I feel WW in Wrath makes it a harder choice then keg/bomb, not sureQuote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I already posted my thoughts on Monoblue earlier. But Ive talked up Thrull since day one and do think that in the current meta, the white splash is worth it even for just Thrull alone.
As far UW goes…
This is a really excellent analysis of the optimal UW build post MH3. I think you are spot on regarding what to play.Quote:
Originally Posted by FTW
I think Bant still has potential though. Uro drawing cards every swing is a big upgrade over Murktide.
For the Bant list I would play the same core as UW above except…
18 Lands
//Threats: 11
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Nulldrifter
3 Uro
//Enablers: 11
3-4 Doorkeeper Thrull
3-4 Stifle
4 Dress Down
//Core Spells: 20
4 Force Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
2-3 Daze
1-2 Prismatic Ending
Prismatic Ending is our answer to a resolved Chalice. Daze is my pick for the remaining slots. Daze is really key to the early game and as an unexpected 2 of, its also going to be relevent mid to late game.
I am also excited to try Jeskai. It would be identical to above but playing Phlage, Titan of Fire's Fury in place of Uro. Trading the card draw for a resolved Lightning Bolt doesnt seem like a bad trade. But not being able to pitch Phlage to FoW is a bummer.
And as a big fan of Thoughtseize in this deck as a way to clear the path for Nought, I think Nulldrifter enables a very potent Esper list with Dreadnought, Nulldrifter, Murktide and possibly a few Death’s Shadow as the threatbase.
jeskai enables fling :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Hammer
why 4 uro and 3 nulldrifter?
1)uro is legendary
2) in round 3 better nulldrifter in to play
3) multiple uro in hand/graveyard is only for pitch
Im thinking nulldrifter, dreadnought and st katherine are the creatures I would use, as you dont need your graveyard for them to work, and you can pack in stuff like rest in peace in the sb.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by johncarvalho
Totally agree
someone tested ledger shredder ?
Here is some early gameplay of Dressnought featuring Nulldrifter…
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wAFGFh...VjaWJsZQ%3D%3D
I'm not sure that with nulldrifther the regent slots are well spent.
I think its worthwhile as a 1-3 of.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
Boshnroll posted a fantastic video with UW Dressnought…
https://youtu.be/41AWAgAzOtc?si=ukuGjIrNhv96Gpi5
Seeing BoshnRoll play is a privilege, it always gives the impression of having everything under control.
two considerations on the build the regent has never been decisive, the manabase is solid and we have the stifles to protect us from wasteland why not otawara in 1x?
given that the main seems quite solid to me and only two or three cards vary based on personal preferences, we could start discussing side choices based on the meta.
The maindeck is far from solved. There are many versions running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
Esper Frog 1st place: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56947&d=624929&f=LE
//Creatures: 15
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Psychic Frog
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
3 Nulldrifter
1 Brazen Borrower
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
//Enchantments: 3
3 Dress Down
//Lands: 19
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Scrubland
1 Meticulous Archive
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Wasteland
UW Thrull 1st place: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56922&d=624504&f=LE
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Nulldrifter
1 Brazen Borrower
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Daze
1 Lorien Revealed
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Lands: 19
4 Flooded Strand
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Prismatic Vista
2 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Wasteland
UW 15land brew 1st place: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=56962&d=625041&f=LE
//Creatures: 11
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Doorkeeper Thrull
3 Nulldrifter
1 Triumph of Saint Katherine
//Spells: 29
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Prismatic Ending
4 Daze
2 Wrath of the Skies
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Lands: 16
4 Flooded Strand
2 Tundra
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Karakas
1 Mystic Sanctuary
1 Sink into Stupor
4 Wasteland
(16 lands and so few "Island" seems too greedy, but I like the Wrath tech for the board)
The most played list is uw.
the others are sporadic for now.
Like the one from boshnroll
Uro is much better than Psychic Frog.
Play this list…
https://youtu.be/41AWAgAzOtc?si=ukuGjIrNhv96Gpi5
But add 3 Uro and the 4th Thrull.
ThrabenU 4-1 with UW:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcj_IPKEGOw
4-0 / 8-0 in first 4 rounds, only losing Round 5 after horrible variance in land draws
This looks so much better since pivoting off Uro.
//Creatures: 13
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
4 Doorkeeper Thrull
4 Nulldrifter
1 Brazen Borrower
//Spells: 24
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Stifle
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Daze
//Enchantments: 4
4 Dress Down
//Lands: 19
4 Wasteland
4 Flooded Strand
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
3 Tundra
1 Meticulous Archive
2 Island
1 Plains
//Sideboard: 15
2 Harbinger of the Seas
2 Force of Negation
2 Wrath of the Skies
2 Prismatic Ending
1 Path to Exile
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Hydroblast
1 Deafening Silence
1 Grafdigger's Cage
Another 1st place list: https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=57397&d=628670&f=LE
I play the same list but with
-1 thrull +1 brazen
-1 tundra+1 otawara
I like the extra bounce to answer Chalice @ 1 on the draw G1. Also Ensnaring Bridge.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
What do you have in your SB? Harbinger and Wrath seem strong in the right matches.
2 hydroblast
1 blue elemental blast
2 force of negation
2 surgical
2rest in peace
2 stony of silence
1 back to basic (like it more the harbinger)
1 containement priest (now is very strong possible +1)
2 prismatic
I'm keeping this but I'm practically not playing due to work.:-)
I'm very curious to try Tamiyo
with 4 brainstorms and 4 nulldrifthers, it seems easy enough to flip it.
tamiyo round 1, thrull opponed eot round 2 e nulldrifther turn 3 ......................:cool::cool::cool:
Another card that seems worth trying is deem inferior,:smile:
https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=57887&d=632508&f=LE
curie--tamyio
Curie is cool tech but the deck has minimal room for flex slots. Its insane this listisnt playing Nulldrifter for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by babau
Dressnought is having its moment though. It has the second best win record in the format and very few decks are prepared for it.