[Deck] Dreadstill - Enter the Fist

Rich Shay [The_Atog_Lord] went 4-1-1 finishing in 8th at the end of swiss then beating 4c Thresh 2-0 in top 8 and losing to Goyf Sligh 2-1 finishing in 4th overall. Here is the Ugr List we built him in the car on the ride there, it was a little different from the normal lists since we were basically testing new ideas.

Lands:21
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
3 Island

Creatures:7
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought

Noncreature Spells:31
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
4 Stifle
4 Counterbalance
3 Krosan Grip
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Daze
1 Trickbind
1 Cryptic Command
1 Fire/Ice
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Firespout
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Red Elemental Blast

A few post tournament notes, -1 Cryptic Command, +1 Fire/Ice (Fire/Ice was awesome all day) and -1 Island, +1 Phyrexian Dreadnought (he wanted another most of the day.) Also in the side he said he would but a Relic and a Firespout for 2 Sower of Temptations.

I also played Ugr Dreadstill but I played a much more conventional list, I went 4-2.

Lands:22
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island

Creatures:9
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

Noncreature Spells:29
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Stifle
4 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Trickbind
1 Crucible of Worlds

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Firespout
1 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus

A Brief Report:
Round 1:Rw Goblin
1-2 ...Firespout doesn't kill that awful 3/4 goblin king guy from Shadowmoor.
Round 2: Legacy Elf Ball
2-0 Summoner's Pact pass... E.E. @1 Blow it killing 3 Llanowar elves, waste your bayou, pass. Upkeep oh well I guess I die to summoner's pact.
Round 3: MUC (Kadaj?)
1-2 Back to basics+3 sower's off the top seem really good.
Round 4: Uwb Dreaded Fish
2-0 Standstill provides to much card advantage for him to keep up with.
Round 5: Tezzeret Stax
2-0
Round 6:Faerie Stompy (VsTheWorld)
2-0

After testing Uwx versions of the deck in several big tournaments this month (48, 51 and 39 players) and getting not very good results I'll say that I've missed Spell Snares all day long: the cards I've lost against the most were Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance. I know this may be a flaw argument as these are two of the most powerful Legacy cards, but I have discovered through pain that in a developed meta Spell Snare is a must.

And after playing today against Meathooks, Dreadstill, Team America, Team America, Not-Quite-Survival (and soon after dropping) I think it was a fail not having red for 3-4 REBs...

So, that's it, I'm moving back to an Ur build... just like others did before.

Magus of the moons seems very powerful as well...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by godryk

After testing Uwx versions of the deck in several big tournaments this month (48, 51 and 39 players) and getting not very good results I'll say that I've missed Spell Snares all day long: the cards I've lost against the most were Tarmogoyf and Counterbalance. I know this may be a flaw argument as these are two of the most powerful Legacy cards, but I have discovered through pain that in a developed meta Spell Snare is a must.

And after playing today against Meathooks, Dreadstill, Team America, Team America, Not-Quite-Survival (and soon after dropping) I think it was a fail not having red for 3-4 REBs...

So, that's it, I'm moving back to an Ur build... just like others did before.

Magus of the moons seems very powerful as well...

---

Yeah definetally the Ur build but -2 Clasm in the board +2 Magus of the Moon. Also manabase stability definetally seems pretty vial especially against Team America.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by J.V.

Round 3: MUC (Kadaj?)
1-2 Back to basics+3 sower's off the top seem really good.

---

Yeah, that was me, haha. Even though I won that match, I was very impressed with the way Dreadstill performed all day. I was so impressed with the way it was testing against me before the tournament that I actually changed my list to combat it better, so it's made an impression on me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a UGw list? Swords seems stupidly good these days, so I'm curious if anyone's given the idea any thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kadaj

Yeah, that was me, haha. Even though I won that match, I was very impressed with the way Dreadstill performed all day. I was so impressed with the way it was testing against me before the tournament that I actually changed my list to combat it better, so it's made an impression on me.

Does anyone have any thoughts on a UGw list? Swords seems stupidly good these days, so I'm curious if anyone's given the idea any thought.

---

Actually Rich and I both had Ugw Lists built in the car and ultimately switched to Ugr, Swords is excellent, but we both decided that we would rather have the sweeper in Firespout.

For how long have you been playing Crucible, JV? Also, how do you like 22 lands? I'm pretty ambivalent on this. In my 4c build, I used to have 22.

Questions for Shay: Is Grip better than Spell Snare? With only 6 counters (yeah, 7 with Cryptic...), did you miss somes? 3 Dreadnought without Trinkets isn't a low count for 5 stifle effects?

@godryk: on big tourny with specific meta, I would go with the REB's. As I know my meta, I prefer Spell Snare, because there's a lot of aggro-controlish (but not a lot of blue-based decks) like Terragueddon, Eva Green, Aggro Loam and more typic aggro like Goyf Sligh, Goblins...

@ JV & people at the event: Is only TA making 2-3 splashs difficult? Or it had Dragon Stompy also?

Do you think that firespout is good againts Affinity ?

This weekend I wend 9-1-1 and split the top two in an 11 man tourney.

My UWr list was the following:

4x Nought
3x Trinket Mage

4x FoW
4x Stifle
4x Brainstorm
4x Standstill
3x Daze
3x Spellsnare
3x Counterbalence
3x StP
2x Top
1x EE

4x Factory
4x Flooded Strand
3x Wasteland
3x Island
2x Polluted Delta
1x Volcanic Island
1x Steam Vents
1x Tundra
1x Academy Ruins

SB:
3x Crypt
3x BeB
3x ReB
2x Firespout
2x Meddling Mage
1x Relic
1x EE

Important Note: Have more colored lands than fetchlands.

Here were the MU's:

Round 1
2-0 against UG Thresh. I got counter top and he did not. Nought eventually finishes him off.

Round 2
2-0 against Burn. He resolvs some burn spells. I counter some burn spells. He can't kill Nought. The second game was more of the same.

Round 3
2-1 against Ichorid. Game 1 he runs me over. Game 2 I race him with a Nought. Game 3 he scoops after I play my 3rd Crypt and still have a relic on the board.

Round 4
1-0-1 against Uwg control. The first game took almost 45 minutes. I drew 12 cards off of Standstill, and got a counter-top out. Eventually Nought finishes him off. Game 2 was a draw.

Top 4
2-0 against the same deck as round 4. This guy never has a chance. He keeps playing Standstill but he always ends up breaking it. I Stifle 3 fetches. At least both games go quicker this time.

I like StP against Goyf and other random dudes, but I'm not sure if it is worth the mana base.

Hello,
Comments or suggestions on the stifle-nought deck im planning to run.

Thanks

Lands
3 scrying sheets
3 flooded strand
3 tundra
7 snow-covered island
5 snow-covered plains
21

Win Con
2 painter servant
2 grindstone
4 phyrexian dreadnought
8

Utility
4 stifle
3 brainstorm
2 ponder / -1 ponder +1 trickbind
3 sensei divinning top
2 counter balance
14

Disruption
4 force of will
3 daze
4 mana leak or 2 counter spell & 2 spell snare
11

Anti-Creature
4 swords to plowshares
2 wrath of god
6

I used the snow engine and sacrificed man-lands and wastelands. Im just gessing maybe the snow engine + brainstorm would give me the cards i want in different situations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by _erbs_

3 scrying sheets
3 flooded strand
3 tundra
7 snow-covered island
5 snow-covered plains

2 painter servant
2 grindstone
4 phyrexian dreadnought

4 stifle
3 brainstorm
2 ponder / -1 ponder +1 trickbind
3 sensei divinning top
2 counter balance

4 force of will
3 daze
4 mana leak or 2 counter spell & 2 spell snare

4 swords to plowshares
2 wrath of god

---

The first thing that I recognized is the severe lack of Tinket Magi in your deck. Tutoring for Grindstone aswell as Dreadnought and Top makes him the perfect fit. I would most likely cut those Ponders to make room for him.
The Mana Leaks and Dazes seem weak due to the absense of Wastelands. I'd strongly suggest testing:
- 3 Daze
-4 Mana Leak
+ 3 Spell Snare
+ 2 Negate
+ 1 Counterbalance
+ 1 Trickbind

With only 3 Fetchlands, Brainstorm's power got diminished, too. I guess I'd go all the way in that case and go:
-3 Fetchlands
-3 Brainstorm
+ 2 Snowlands
+1 Academy Ruins
+ 1 Enlightened Tutor
+ 1 Oblivion Ring
+ 1 Engineered Explosives
------------
Fast forward to my version:
3 scrying sheets
3 tundra
8 snow-covered island
6 snow-covered plains
1 Academy Ruins

2 painter servant
2 grindstone
3 phyrexian dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage
2 Enlightened Tutor

4 stifle
1 Trickbind
3 sensei divinning top
3 counter balance
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives

4 force of will
3 Spell Snare
2 Negate

4 swords to plowshares
2 wrath of god

-
Hope you like it.
Klaus.

For the sake of doing so, I aggregated the last 28 Dreadstill decks on Deckcheck, aka, the whole first page of lists, minus the 2 decks that have less than 60 cards.

Here's what I found:
164- Blue Fetchland
112- Brainstorm
112- Force of Will
111- Stifle
110- Factory
106- Standstill
100- Phyrexian Dreadnought
99- Island
92- Daze
84- Wasteland
80- Counterbalance
71- Tropical Island
67- Trinket Mage
65- Tarmogoyf
56- Sensei's Divining Top
49- Engineered Explosives
47- Volcanic Island
46- Spell Snare
36- Trickbind
13- Swords to Plowshares
12- Tundra
10- Krosan Grip
7- Fire/Ice
6- Pithing Needle
6- Underground Sea
5- Crucible of Worlds
4- Dark Confidant
4- Oblivion Ring
3- Plains
3- Academy Ruins
3- Thoughtseize
2- Ponder
2- Echoing Truth
2- Enlightened Tutor
2- Repeal
1- Cryptic Command
1- Tormod's Command
1- Seat of Synod
1- Swamp
1- Misdirection
1- Firespout

The aggregate Dreadstill deck looks like this:

Creatures: 8
4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Tarmogoyf
2 Trinket Mage

Spells: 29
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Counterbalance
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
2 Spell Snare
3 Daze
4 Force of Will
2 Engineered Explosives

Mana: 22
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
6 Blue Fetch
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island

1 Open Slot

On the whole, rather unsurprising. It should be noted that barely anyone ran 22 lands, but the averages just made it come out that way due to some decks running 6 or so Islands. I am much more interested in doing sideboards, which I will try to do at some later point, and I will probably distinguish between splashes for that.

Actually i teched out a list powering the Magus.
I would like to hear, what you think of it, escpecially Rood.
Here it goes:
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
5 Island
3 Volcanic Island

4 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage
4 Magus of the Moon

4 Stifle
3 Counterbalance
4 Daze
2 Trickbind
2 SDT
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives

Side:
3 Red Elemental Blast
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Pithing Needle
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Pyroclasm
2 Open Slots

Actually i'm thinking about going -1 Trickbind, +1 Trinket Mage.
What do you think?
Greetz,
EaD

@bocci: Thanks for that look at things. I always find data like this interesting.

@Jazzykat & Bocci: Agreed, that is very useful information Brian, Thanks a Lot! I actually started doing something like that (but by splashes instead of total) and never got around to finishing it.
@Ead: I would cut one of your Volcs for another basic island since post Magus your going to want as many U sources as you can muster.

Like J.V., I played Dreadstill (Ugr) on day 1 of TMLO. I ended up dropping pretty early on, but I have a few notes from playing the deck this weekend:

• Tops. I was only running 2 (plus 3 Mage), but I always wanted to see one, especially in the mirror. In the future, I wouldn't play less than 3.
• Spell Snare. It's so good. I played 2, which seemed like the right number. If I had room, I'd consider going up to 3.
• Wastelands and Factories. Instead of the traditional 3/4 split, I played a 4/3 split. The rationale was that with 4 maindeck Goyfs, you don't really need 4 Factories. The 4th Waste seemed stronger in the mirror and just stronger in general.

This is what I'd probably play in the future:

Lands:22
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
2 Volcanic Island
4 Island
4 Wasteland
3 Mishra's Factory

Creatures:9
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
2 Trinket Mage

Spells:29
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Spell Snare
4 Stifle
1 Trickbind
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pithing Needle

Sideboard:15
3 Blue Elemental Blast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Firespout
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EaD

4 Magus of the Moon

---

What kind of metagame do you play in that you want a maindeck playset of them? There are plenty of decks that can operate under Moon, and who will thank you for casting a Grey Ogre that disables half of your threats and card advantage sources. I'd say that if conditional cards are to be played maindeck at all (and Moon is certainly powerful enough that this might be the case), their number should be limited.

@b4r0n- I think the 4th Factory is a must. I just find that sometimes bad things happen if you drop an early still but can't draw a threat to put them on a clock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bocci

@b4r0n- I think the 4th Factory is a must. I just find that sometimes bad things happen if you drop an early still but can't draw a threat to put them on a clock.

---

I don't think it's necessary to put your opponent on a clock in order for Standstill to be effective. If they're not breaking your Standstill, then you get to drop lands and move into the midgame. You should benefit more from that than your opponent does. If not, then you probably shouldn't have played the Standstill in the first place.

Hello,
The snow engine was terribly slow, against aggro decks or burn decks i find it hard to play standstill because most of the time im the one whos at a disadvantage.

i didn't feel any big use for wasteland expect for the minimal mana disruption combined with stifle and trickbind. Mishara's Factory for me is just so so.

Based on my testing im still new to the dreadstill world.
1. I felt the deck lacks draw cards when you can't draw via standstill
2. Library manipulation is kinda short or not enough for me.
3. Extirpate will kill the deck if you have no other win con, i tested 4 dreads only as the win con.
4. Counter magic for me was not enough its hard to protect dreadnought from the tons of artifact hate flying around. And you have to counter other cards that will hurt the deck.
5. CounterTop is good once you get it online.
6. Meddling mage is nice to have but im having a hardtime which cards to pull out, its nice to make him main board. Helps in protecting dreads and other threats.
7. trinket mage is good if you have the mana, but with my old mana config:
6 fetch
3 mishra
3 wasteland
4 tundra
3 island
1 plains

I im having a hard time playing him with out tapping out. And my land count average is 3, sometimes i can't cast stp bec of the land hate my opponent is casting. Mana based for me felt very fragile

After my play testing i ended up with:

Lands
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
7 island
4 plains
19

Win Con
4 stifle
1 trickbind
4 phyrexian dreadnought
9

Spells
4 swords to plowshares
1 powder keg
1 engineered explosives
1 echoing truth
3 brainstorm
3 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
3 mana leak
2 spell snare
1 annul
2 counter spell
4 accumulated knowledge
32

comments are greatly appriciated

i would like to add another win condition but i can't think anything expect for maybe tarmo, but before i invest in tarmo and tropical islands, is it the next best win con or painterstone is still better ?

i also tried removing the countertop combo for raw counter magic to see how it would run.

thanks

erbs you may want to check back as to why we include 4x Standstills in Dreadstill...it's irreplacable in terms of what kind of powers it brings to the table. You could honestly test it some more it's rediculous.

This isn't the thread really for random Stiflenought decks, only ones that include the hybrid of Landstill as well.

Just wanted to reply to this...
"I don't think it's necessary to put your opponent on a clock in order for Standstill to be effective. If they're not breaking your Standstill, then you get to drop lands and move into the midgame. You should benefit more from that than your opponent does. If not, then you probably shouldn't have played the Standstill in the first place."

The whole point of standstill is to abuse it via manland if opponent refuse to break it or is stupid enough to not break it.

I would definately have 4 manland in a deck with 4 standstill. Not putting pressure = opponent might not break standstill.
I played many games in tournament where i dropped a turn 2 standstill without knowing what my opponent was playing. Sometimes its game breaking (im getting 3 cards), sometimes, its game screwing. The average game breaking is higher, so im sticking to this strategy. Having more manland allows you to play consistenly the turn 2 landstill while not knowing what the opponent play. If he happens to play a landstill-like deck, you have your manlands to counter his and you usually win the stall because you have wasteland. Some standstill don't run that many copies of wasteland ..

Do you people side out Standstill when you are fighting against Landstill? I felt that it is hard to abuse standstill in that specific matchup. Having relevant cards might help more. Like Red Blast

Robert

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omega

Just wanted to reply to this...
"I don't think it's necessary to put your opponent on a clock in order for Standstill to be effective. If they're not breaking your Standstill, then you get to drop lands and move into the midgame. You should benefit more from that than your opponent does. If not, then you probably shouldn't have played the Standstill in the first place."

The whole point of standstill is to abuse it via manland if opponent refuse to break it or is stupid enough to not break it.

I would definately have 4 manland in a deck with 4 standstill. Not putting pressure = opponent might not break standstill.
I played many games in tournament where i dropped a turn 2 standstill without knowing what my opponent was playing. Sometimes its game breaking (im getting 3 cards), sometimes, its game screwing. The average game breaking is higher, so im sticking to this strategy. Having more manland allows you to play consistenly the turn 2 landstill while not knowing what the opponent play. If he happens to play a landstill-like deck, you have your manlands to counter his and you usually win the stall because you have wasteland. Some standstill don't run that many copies of wasteland ..

Do you people side out Standstill when you are fighting against Landstill? I felt that it is hard to abuse standstill in that specific matchup. Having relevant cards might help more. Like Red Blast

Robert

---

I absolutely side out Standstill against decks playing Standstill. Unless you know what's in your opponent's hand, you may find yourself in a terrible position after playing your Standstill. I've played a lot of BHWC Landstill and tested Dreadstill mirrors against Deep6er and most of the time whenever someone plays a Standstill, it's the wrong time. There are a few times where your hand looks amazing to play Standstill, for instance, maybe you've got plenty of colored land in play, and a Mishra's and Wasteland in hand and you know there's another Mishra's in the top of your library because you've a SDT in play, but your opponent has a better hand or draws better. You're better off siding out at least 3 Standstill for something better.

Exactly what URABAHN said. I always board all four Standstills against any mirror variant and/or Landstill builds. It's too risky IMO and you're much better off running a few more relevant spells from the board.

I'm going to take a pretty standard Ur list to a tournament in 2 weeks.

4x Nought
4x Trinket Mage

4x FoW
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Standstill
3x Daze
3x Spellsnare
3x Counterbalence
2x Top
2x EE
2x Trickbind

5x Island
4x Factory
4x Flooded Strand
3x Wasteland
2x Polluted Delta
2x Volcanic Island
1x Academy Ruins

3x BEB
3x REB
3x Crypt
2x Firespout
2x Magus of the Moon
1x Relic
1x Needle

I would like to include some Wipe Away's in the board to deal with resolved Goyfs or Counterbalence, but I'm not sure what to cut. If I cut Firespout I'm not sure if EE alone can deal with goblins. Also I'm not sure if Needle is necesary. The most likely targets seem to be Grindestone or Aether Vial, and I don't see those that much. Either way I think one Crypt will be cut. 3 graveyard hate cards should be enough. Comments would be helpful. Thanks.

@Roodmistah
Sorry if im kinda hard headed its been so long like 5-6 years since i played blue thats why im so unsure of different things. Im greatful for the tips your giving.

@Omega
Thanks for tip.

_____________________________________________________________

I changed my decklist and looks like this right now but im having problems with the following:
1. board control
2. casting counter balance due to the lack of another :u: source
3. casting stp is hard aswell bec i sometimes don't get any :w: sources
4. is wasteland really a must ? would having more man lands in place of it better like faerie conclave or forbidding watch tower as it could produce colored mana aswell
5. depending on dreadnought alone is hard especially when it gets extirpate or destoryed by tons of artifact & creature hate.
6. Is painter stone or tarmogoyf be a good alternate win con or is meddling mage better ?


Lands
4 flooded strand
4 tundra
3 mishra's factory
2 wasteland
3 island
2 plains
1 accademy ruins
19

Win Con
3 trinket mage
3 phyrexian dreadnought
2 painter servant
2 grind stone
10

Spells
4 swords to plowshares
2 powder keg
3 brainstorm
1 ponder
4 force of will
3 daze
1 spell snare
1 mana leak
3 standstill
2 sensei's divinning top
3 counter balance
4 stifle
31


I added the painter stone im my current list it has its pros and cons vs tarmo, but i do want about it i can kill my opponent in 1 turn. But what i hate about it is that its another 2 card combo, both my win conditions are 2 card combo which kinda suck but i don't know what to do.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by e=mc^2

Also I'm not sure if Needle is necesary.

---

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

@_erbs_ Wasteland + Daze aren't the best options to compliment Painter/Stone. You really don't want to put yourself back land drops when trying to grind someone out (especially with 19 land).

Keep them if you want to focus on the 12/12. The tempo gain is amazing with the big guy in play. I would drop them if I wanted to focus on the Painter combo, and play nought as a secondary kill.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whienot

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

---

Also, randomly neutering Survival is really fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whienot

Keep the Needle. I don't know your meta, but Engineered Explosives and Pernicious Deed are troublesome targets.

---

Do you run Firespout? If you don't do you have any issues with the Goblins MU?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by e=mc^2

Do you run Firespout? If you don't do you have any issues with the Goblins MU?

---

I do run Firespout, though Goblins is winnable without it. If Gobs is your main aggro concern, I think Pyroclasm is better. They have the ability to keep you off 3 mana (Waste/Port). The spout shines against Slivers and Zoo, will occasionally kill a Painter's Servant, and is just funny against Faerie Stompy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whienot

I do run Firespout, though Goblins is winnable without it. If Gobs is your main aggro concern, I think Pyroclasm is better. They have the ability to keep you off 3 mana (Waste/Port). The spout shines against Slivers and Zoo, will occasionally kill a Painter's Servant, and is just funny against Faerie Stompy.

---

I'm not sure which aggro deck I will face most or even if I am most worried about aggro. I haven't had enough aggro MU's to know how the deck preforms without a red sweeper. I do know that Magus can wreck decks which run 0 or close to 0 non-basics, like Team America, Tombstone, or 3c Threshold. In the end it may be more important to have something against those decks than have a sweeper against agro decks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roodmistah

Exactly what URABAHN said. I always board all four Standstills against any mirror variant and/or Landstill builds. It's too risky IMO and you're much better off running a few more relevant spells from the board.

---

Just to back this up with some theorycraft, in a Standstill mirror, both players' Standstills turn to shit. One player is going to have stronger Standstills than the other, sure -- but even if your Standstills are only 60%* shit to the opponents' 70%, say, that still leaves your Standstills being in much larger part shit than your other cards, so it's good sense to board them out for other cards which suck less. Standstill is strong against other decks because it is something like 100% stronger than the opponents' Standstill would be (which they, hence, do not play); in the mirror, a 10% advantage or frequently less is not enough to make it an effective card.

* Yeah, not very quantifiable**. Numbers for illustrative purposes only.

** Actually, I guess you could quantify the strength of a Standstill by what percentage of the time it is your opponent who has to break it. This can't be used to compare the shit-quotient of Standstill relative to your other cards, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Illissius

Just to back this up with some theorycraft, in a Standstill mirror, both players' Standstills turn to shit.

---

I pretty much agree. The exception is when you play a deck with Crucible, Planeswalkers or especially DoJ against one that doesn't have them; in that case, assuming I don't have a sideboard full of awesomeness, I keep in ~2 Standstills as a conditional late-game card drawing spell (that mostly pitches to FoW before turn 5-6).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by e=mc^2

I do know that Magus can wreck decks which run 0 or close to 0 non-basics, like Team America, Tombstone, or 3c Threshold.

---

If this is your meta, compliment the Magus with bounce. It's very satisfying to drop Magus then Echoing Truth/Wipe Away their turn 2/3 threat.

Has anyone tested Pongify in the SB as a 1 U removal spell for things like Goyf or Tombstalker? They get a 3/3 out of it but that's better than a 5/5 flyer that we usually can't do anything about unless we have Echoing Truth. Just a thought.

Edit: Or is this just a bad idea?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xero_2285

Has anyone tested Pongify in the SB as a 1 U removal spell for things like Goyf or Tombstalker? They get a 3/3 out of it but that's better than a 5/5 flyer that we usually can't do anything about unless we have Echoing Truth. Just a thought.

Edit: Or is this just a bad idea?

---

Snakeform seems objectively better to me than Pongify in a build with Tarmogoyf. Factory can survive blocking the Snake, and its a 2 for 1. And if it isn't going to work, at least it cantrips or hits 3 drops with Counterbalance. But I still can't justify cutting Spell Snare from the deck. I honestly don't know you guys who run Krosan Grip in the Spell Snare slot do it.

No, never cut Spell Snare ,imo. Just Pongify in the SB when needed, kind of like StP or something. Also we can kill the 3/3's with Firespout (adds to the 3cc for CB) and then swing with Goyf/Factory/Nought. Just a thought though, completely untested.

I have a question for those who play the Ur version with Magus of the Moon in the board. Do you guys take out standstill when you bring the Magus in? Magus seems like it would not be too great for the standstill game. You would have to wait to get a dude down or a Top or something before you played Standstill.

The matches where Magus rocks Standstill sucks anyway (Landstill/Lands/Eternal Garden), which makes for an easy swap.

As for Team America, Tombstone & 3c Thresh... tough call. From your list above I would -1 Standstill, -1 Trinket Mage, +2 Magus. The Counterbalance count can probably be lowered in the Tombstone matchup.

I've been trying out this deck on MWS, both Ur and Ugr (and Ubr with confidants, although I think that was dismissed a while back in this thread), and to be sure, most opponents were scrubby and all, but even when they were good players, this deck proved to be pretty incredible. Props to Rood and all of you crazy creative people.

Is there anything that this deck is legitimately afraid of? Or have I just been fairly lucky in my MWS testing, and not actually encountered much in the way of tough matchups?

The Rock is probably the worst matchup. Deed, EE, Vindicate, Stp, big dudes, & discard. It's not unwinnable, but very tough.

After that, Landstill and Countertop decks can give you fits. Grips/REB help against Counterbalace post board, with REB helping to fight through counters.

Moon effects go along way in shutting off The Rock's removal as well as hurting Landstill.