[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Most of the arguments the doomsday prophets are throwing out there mean modern is going down also. Goyf will be north of $200 and Dark Confidant will be $100 and Liliana will be $110. You could argue WotC is more incentivized to re-print modern staples but the effect will trickle into making legacy more affordable if that happens.

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But any perceived increase in affordability in Legacy due to reprints will be offset by increased demand on staples whose supply is fixed. If people are buying Goyfs and Lilianas for Legacy, they'll probably need Bayous and Tropical islands and Underground Seas too.

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Originally Posted by easysantiago

This is pretty thorough! I only have two things to add.

I am interested in your second point: "Support for the prices evaporates". I wonder what the upper ceiling is. As in, when will people say, 'I'm not paying that, the price is wrong'? Can you think of other instances where this happened on the hobby market?

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I think it heavily depends on the card. In my book, invoke prejudice at $150 is downright ridiculous. I already reached that point.

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As for your fourth point, "Transparency puts an end to the illusion of scarcity": if it didn't work for the Marxists, it won't work for MTG. That is to say, even if scarcity is 'revealed' to be an illusion (which I think everyone knows it is), we still ideologically buy into the game.

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I'm afraid so.

Sure, but it's all going down at that point, especially if you buy into Modern target audience being younger, less affluent people. The marginal difference between modern and legacy isn't huge over the course of a 1-2 year invesment (e.g. 5-10 duals).

WotC reprining 10 fetches would go a long way for both formats. Here's hoping they print some fucking stone hideous new bordered Wayne A. Reynolds art fetches.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

Sure, but it's all going down at that point

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Except that it's not. Both formats are making significant gains in popularity. This may mean that we need to reevaluate who the actual audience for these formats is. I think Phelix is right, and MtG (specifically non-rotating formats) is just transitioning into being a higher costed hobby. I think it's fun enough to justify the steep price of entry, and apparently there are a lot of people who agree.

It's pretty interesting how RL staples shoot up across the board.

Sneak Attack is about 80$ now.

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Originally Posted by Phelix

I think its interesting that people speculate that if it costs X amount of Money, they hobby, game or sport (or a combination) as MtG could be classified, will die.


Why hasnt horseback riding died? its way more expensive. Or powerboating? (or cocaine and Hookers?)


This may be the transition of the a part of the game from being a relatively cheap hobby, like soccer, to a more expensive one.

All the middleschoolers can still play standard.

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I agree with this. And it's also why I think that it will be hard to bring prices down from now on, even with reprints.

Speaking of hobbies (unrelated story coming up), ironically, part of the reason why I decided to invest into magic in the first place was because how much more expensive the other hobbies I wanted to get in were for me. Back then, I had the choice of keep playing soccer (which already costed me a over a thousand dollars a year in terms of transport, equipment, inscription, competitions, mostly in other Canadian cities, and sometimes in the US, and bursaries were bullshit unless you play hockey), or go and get into paintball, which I loved, but was also relatively expensive where I live (you don't go back to renting equipment when you tasted real equipment and that you want to go play at least once a week). In the end, I did not want to play soccer after I started university as a career in sports wasn't my goal, and paintball was really expensive for someone getting in university (especially that it was far as hell, and you have to go in with a team). So after that, when I got into legacy with ANT and it was a few hundreds (back then), I told myself back then that it really wasn't as bad as my other discarded options.

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Originally Posted by Barook

It's pretty interesting how RL staples shoot up across the board.

Sneak Attack is about 80$ now.

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Sneak Attack isn't RL, but yeah... All the staples seem to be on the rise.

So Volcanic Island and Tundra both shot up to $220+ overnight?

*facepalm*

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Originally Posted by Phelix

I think its interesting that people speculate that if it costs X amount of Money, they hobby, game or sport (or a combination) as MtG could be classified, will die.


Why hasnt horseback riding died? its way more expensive. Or powerboating? (or cocaine and Hookers?)


This may be the transition of the a part of the game from being a relatively cheap hobby, like soccer, to a more expensive one.

All the middleschoolers can still play standard.

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There are a couple important differences here though. Horseback riding and powerboating are both individual endeavors, they don't benefit from a large participation base like Magic does. Actually they'd probably be hurt by it, I can only imagine how long it would take to get through a 4000-person dressage event (side note: never date a girl that's into horses, they are insane).

On the other hand, if even the biggest Legacy events started drawing only 150-200 players, I think that could discourage new players from joining the format. I could be wrong, but I think part of what keeps the game popular is it's popularity. I'm sure there's some economic term for that type of momentum.

I think part of what makes eternal popular is it's exclusivity and not having to play with complete novices and infants.

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Originally Posted by Richard Cheese

There are a couple important differences here though. Horseback riding and powerboating are both individual endeavors, they don't benefit from a large participation base like Magic does. Actually they'd probably be hurt by it, I can only imagine how long it would take to get through a 4000-person dressage event (side note: never date a girl that's into horses, they are insane).

On the other hand, if even the biggest Legacy events started drawing only 150-200 players, I think that could discourage new players from joining the format. I could be wrong, but I think part of what keeps the game popular is it's popularity. I'm sure there's some economic term for that type of momentum.

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Also, I always thought that powerboating uses some high-end technology, and horses are living mamals, quite expensive to acquire and feed, etc. My cards are made of cardboard, no spaceship tech, and I don't need oat, too, not even for Tarpan. They could be cheaper, there's nothing inherently expensive in them.
Thinking of it, I'd love to have a horse. Must be nice.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I think part of what makes eternal popular is it's exclusivity and not having to play with complete novices and infants.

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With USea for 250 dollars, you may pretty soon play with dame de voyage exlusively.

I can't wait to attract a whole new crowd of Veblen shoppers to Legacy :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Bed Decks Palyer

My cards are made of cardboard, no spaceship tech, and I don't need oat, too, not even for Tarpan.

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If you feed Tarpan regularly, you should gain more life when it dies.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I think part of what makes eternal popular is it's exclusivity and not having to play with complete novices and infants.

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Less the exclusivity, but more of the second point for me. I hate playing vs children, and I hate playing vs people that don't understand even simple stack interactions and people with extreme budget decks.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I think part of what makes eternal popular is it's exclusivity and not having to play with complete novices and infants.

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You got it right on the infants.

But complete novices? Eh, I would say the average PTQ grinder is more skilled at Magic than a Legacy/Vintage player.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I think part of what makes eternal popular is it's exclusivity and not having to play with complete novices and infants.

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Sounds like something I'd read on TMD circa 2004.

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Originally Posted by TsumiBand

If you feed Tarpan regularly, you should gain more life when it dies.

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OK, I'll give you a golf clap for this one.

Lol ... price of foil counterbalance on MKM. Have to sell mine now

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Lol ... price of foil counterbalance on MKM. Have to sell mine now

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Lol, nice find. I still have a foil set of my own, mmm sweet moneyz. But indeed, geeting that money is difficult to.

I feel like it's worth noting that NM Alpha Lotus is up to 10K on SCG. First time a non-misprint, card has reached that level in retail pricing as far as I know.