Maybe unearth? Fill in and try a mini reanimator? With 1x magus of the moon? XD
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Maybe unearth? Fill in and try a mini reanimator? With 1x magus of the moon? XD
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I tried this with reanimate actually and it was terrible. That being said the deck was a strange mix between painter and reanimator and you would always have the wrong piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocioni88
Gamble certainly would be a consideration. It doesn't give me an instant speed win but could grab a moon or something like that. The biggest problem would be to gamble for something like the mindslaver and have it get stuck in hand. Will have to test that a little more.
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@8bit: the Gamble was a good call. thanks for the suggestion.
Also, to people playing a non-white version of the deck (mostly mono red people), what is your sideboard strategy against burn? Have people really tried filigree familiar? I haven't but the idea actually isn't terrible with welders. Anything else? I'm getting wrecked by that deck with my r/b version. Anyone ever play with one of the orbs, or trading post or elixir of immortality?
Yeah, I actually sleeved up Filigree Familiar at last year's Eternal Extravaganza.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post974321
Filigree was pretty insane in one of the match vs. Burn, netting me six life and three cards with an active Welder. But I also had an active Spellskite in that match... The problem with Filigree Familiar is that he's only really useful with an active Welder and Spellskite in the battlefield, making it a three card combo. Filigree Familiar may be more useful in your list though since you are playing 4 Welders. I never tried orbs, trading post, or elixir of immortality since mono-red doesn't play tutor effects, and seemed like a waste of SB space.
Sorry, I don't really have a great strategy vs. Burn currently. I usually SB out all Blood Moons and Ensaring Bridges, but keep in Magus since he blocks, as well as potentially making Searing Blaze a tad awkward. I SB out Ensnaring Bridge because blasts are essential when trying to combo off with Painter to counter up to two burn spells at once sometimes, so going hellbent is not what I want to be doing anyways. Post board, I'd have up to 7-8 Blasts.
I do like Hope of Ghirapur vs. Burn though. It usually draws out a kill spell, which is one less going to Painter. If the opponent doesn't kill Hope of Ghirapur, it basically gives you Time Walk to muster up all the resources to win this turn or the turn after. Hope of Ghirapur is probably better than Filigree, Orb, Trading Post, etc, since all the other cards has a much high CMC and requires more resources to make them work.
Haven't posted here in a bit because I've been getting rep's in with Sneak and Show to practice for a 1k where I plan on playing that. I have been testing a lot of things in painter though in the last week or so.
After about 15 games my preliminary conclusion on Mentor is that he is mostly win-more and not an adequate replacement for bridge. There were a few games where it was quite good as a very high impact tutor target, but most of the time he didn't matter.
I have tested many manabase variations since adding Chandra and I find 26 to be correct. I am running a plains, 3 petal 2 guide, and 1 chrome mox. I don't run e-tutor main so I find the card disadvantage from chrome mox to rarely matter. We also frequently have redundant red cards.
I haven't found a good number yet but after testing I agree with McBain that something less than 4 recruiters is correct. I've had a lot of success with 2, the consistency of the combo doesn't seem to be affected, it's usually grindstone I need to find anyway. We're also in a meta where red blast is often good without painter.
To add to the recruiter point I'm also running a fourth top. It is probably the best change I've made, and I find top to be more powerful than recruiter at finding what I need at any given time. Top is also absolutely broken with Chandra on board.
I'll continue to test and post a list when I'm confident I have enough data.
Fnm report: went 2-1.
I made a few changes to the deck, I bought a helm of obedience just before legacy and sided it in for a REB (was told that it is a blue light meta, it wasn't but I missed all but 1)
Round 1
Opponent: DnT
Overview:
Game 1:
Kept 7, put a painter in play with a backup in hand, surprised it stayed, then grindstone him for the win in response to vialing a flickerwisp. He had no swords.
Game 2:
He revokered grindstone, I got nahiri down trying to ult for a RIP because I had helm in hand, but he kills her quickly. Then I play helm and after a few turns of draw go. I get RIP and win.
Result: 2-0
Round 2
Opponent: eldrazi
Overview:
Game 1:
T1 grindstone, T2 painter, T3 win
Game 2:
Get reality smashed, very little I could do.
Game 3:
Mull to 6 with 2 petals, 1 bridge, 1 plateau, 1 grindstone, 1 helm, scry ancient tomb to the top. Slam bridge down T1, he was surprised at the bridge T1. Then I got mana flooded and he slowly uptick ratchet bomb. I kept milling him with helm and died by my own ancient tombs.
Result: 1-2
Round 3
Opponent: sneak and tell
Overview:
Game 1:
I moon his lands after a few turns of draw go he gets sneak attack down, next turn griz and emrakul.
Game 2:
I get grindstone down, have trinisphere and painter in hand, he show and tells, I debate for a while and decide on trinisphere. He shows omniscience. I play painter next turn and win.
Game 3:
I play ancient tomb, 2 petals and run a painter into force (with a backup and recruiter in hand), then blast his brainstorm, he spell pierces, I play recruiter for welder, play welder next turn to bait any forces. Then I proceed to lock the game with Ensnaring bridge, ethersworn canonist, trinisphere and nahiri. I play my painter when he is tapped out and the following turn ult nahiri to get grindstone and the win.
I made a large mislay game 3, I pitched painter to nahiri and played bridge, the opponent said he only had 1 out and I guessed that it was Echoing Truth, so I welded painter in on his end step, saccing one of the bridges.
Result: 2-1
I'm glad that I added helm in for daretti, it enabled me to have another out when grindone gets locked. Goblin welder held his own and impressed me as did trinisphere.
Just curious, how does everyone feel about Harsh Mentor?
1R
Whenever an opponent activates an ability of an artifact, creature, or land on the battlefield, if it isn't a mana ability, Harsh Mentor deals 2 damage to that player.
2/2
Sorry, not sure how to link cards, especially ones that aren't technically out yet.
You don't mention having RiP, surgical, or crypt in your combo wins against sneak and show. Was he scooping unaware of the emrakul interaction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysdai
I believe that that was the case, I forgot as well in all honesty, we even discussed me sideboarding in surgicals for the emrakuls.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
We were both rusty in fairness, he hasn't played legacy for months and I haven't played painter for a couple of months.
I actually had a mono-red sneak player scoop twice last night on MTGO from me just resolving the combo without the graveyard piece. I messaged him afterward to try to help him out in the future, no response.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysdai
Friendly reminder to everyone: unless you're playing an extremely grindy matchup and going to time is a concern, just play it out. You may learn something or even get a chance to scout the nuances of their list, even if you think you've lost.
Fuck. RIP Welder-Top shenanigans. Where do we go from here, gentleman? I must admit, I'm incredibly disappointed.
It's kind of a shame losing top as I think that terminus was the problem child but I think it was a needed change. That being said i'm not really sure where to go from here, we still have cards like faithless looting and related. I think this deck is still playable without top, but losing top is a beating. I'll be doing some testing on mtgo once the bans come into effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Fortune
Downwards. That's where we're going. Man, they could've banned Counterbalance instead, but no let's chop the consistency of Tier 2 decks as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Fortune
Anyhow I don't think Painter is completely dead, depends on how meta shakes up. Mono-red with multiple bridges and Chandras shouldn't be too affected, but going for combo will be more risky. Welder shenanigans is one thing, but I'm more anxious about not having the possibility to float blasts on top of library anymore.
Losing top hurts, but we are still an extremely viable deck. I admit that I've won the vast majority of my games when top has been in play BUT the loss of top throws a lot of decks into chaos (and may very well kill miracles).
Remember, we thrive in chaos, lots of decks will have far less answers to artifacts in their lists because the threat of counterbalance/top has been countered.
There will be a lot more variance for sure. I am not happy with the ban. Even in mono-red, games with an active Top vs. w/o are pretty drastically different. For one, I think our lists will probably need to play a couple more Mountains because one of the reasons we got away with playing our greedy manabase is bc of Top. It seems we have to delay a turn or two to combo off bc we can't tap Top for Blast. Recruiter chain to find combo pieces lost its value. I think the deck will be a lot more linear.
-3 Top
+1 Land
+2 Scroll Rack ?
-3 SDT, -1 Basic Mountain
+1 Welder, +2 Gamble, +1 Great Furnace
I'll be trying this out. Have a damned IQ this weekend, so I guess I'll report back.
I think that there are a number of directions that you can go with it. Since top is no longer a thing I think that shaving a welder is now an option. I can't speak for the mono R version but for shortcake I think that you can go the following:Quote:
Originally Posted by rabidw0lf
-3 Top
-1 Goblin Welder
+1 Chandra
+1 Bridge
+2 Removal Spells
If you're mono R I think you're kind of forced to play cards like faithless/gamble/etc although it might be time to start exploring some other splash colors. :tongue:
Probably something like this:
21 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Fetch Lands
1 Great Furnace
8 Mountain
17 Creatures
2 Goblin Welder
4 Imperial Recruiter
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Painter's Servant
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Spellskite / Walking Ballista / Hope of Ghirapur
22 Spells
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
4 Blood Moon
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
1 Smuggler's Copter
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
The deck will be nowhere near as fun or interactive, and much more linear, unfortunately. :/
Stream for discussing where we're gonna have to go and potential ideas tonight 11pm eastern.