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Not sure how it hits Vial. The card is still blue, so it can't be played against Iona or LlawanQuote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
I'd like to point out that Mental Misstep is a lot better in Standstill lists than in those without, specifically because it makes the enchantment a lot more consistent.
If you're thinking about cutting a Silvergill Adept then you do not understand the deck you're playing. Ever draw three Adepts? It's basically impossible to lose.
He means playing the metamorph off of the vial to kill Llawan or Iona.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I don't think I would cut creatures to run MM. It's a lovely free counter, and I probably want to run 4, but I want my beatdown route to be strong. So I would start by cutting non-essential non-creature spells.
EDIT:
Metamorph looks sexy to me, I'll pick up a few. This set seems like it's going to be good for 'Folk, doesn't it?
Silvergill Adept is card advantage. Why do you board out it? I think a good list could be:
4x Merrow Reejerey
4x Lord of Atlantis
4x Silvergill Adept
4x Coralhelm Commander
4x Cursecatcher
4x Force of Will
4x Daze
4x Standstill
4x MM
4x Aether Vial
4x Wasteland
4x Mutavault
12x Island
changing -1x Daze -1x MM +2x Spell Pierce if you expect more combo, control and black-based decks.
Our gameplan, with MM, is card advantage; so Silvergill Adept and Standstill must be mainboard.
I guess my question is why haven't you guys been playing Clone, then?
I think I'd find room for a Mishra's Factory in that list, Horsy.
Because Metamorph is a huge upgrade? Clone isn't exactly playable (seen it though) and neither is Sculpting Steel, but if you put them together, it's decent. I'm not saying it's perfect, but it does warrant testing.
Why Mishra's Factory? We have Mutavaults, which are better than Mishras; and you need a set of Wasteland to play better with Standstill. If you add some manlands, than you will not have mana to use them; and 12 island aren't enough, if we don't want to depend on Vial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
I definitely overlooked the value of this card with standstill. I intend on testing a standstill/misstep list, seems really good.
Yes. That.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims
I still think it's sadly going to be too weak here and that the primary plan against Iona, Llawan, and Emrakul should just be to not let them hit play, and in Progenitus's case, don't let it hit play or Llawan it. Hitting Jittes and copying Lords (Or Sowers!) in the mirror is sexy though, so I may still try it.
EDIT: Also, why is there logic that Mental Misstep has to be paired with Standstill? I'm not saying it shouldn't be, necessarily, but I fail to see the auto-include logic. Mental Misstep doesn't make your game plan card advantage. It makes it tempo. It's a free counter while you drop all the Lords ever. In my head, it takes the deck the other direction, more towards the "Drop guys and win with a little bit of disruption" plan.
Mental Misstep is only bonkers with Standstill when you're on the play, much like Vial. If you misstep their turn one play, they still get a turn two play for you to counter before your Standstill can hit.
That said, it IS bonkers on the play, so I can see the allure.
Yea I wasn't saying they NEED to be played together, just that it feels really good with standstill. I plan on playing misstep even without standstill because of what I think it will do to the zoo match up.
Only problem with vialing Metamorph is it's 4cmc not 3cmc, hence shutting off your vials for later use. Not worth it IMO. If there's a card that merfolk needs in NP, it's Mental Misstep. I can't stress how Merfolks is successful not because of annying efficient beaters, but it's the combination of efficient beaters + free counters skewing the tempo development in such an unfair way.
And as a control player, I would love for you guys to cut Adept, and not run Mental Misstep because they are terrible cards.
...
Did people just say Adept is the worst creature in the deck?? Do you know how nuts Adept is in this deck? Without Adept, decks can still keep up to Merfolks, but with Adepts, you're up 2 cards (a big body and a +1 card-advantage) to continually pressure and push your opponents out of the game.
+1 all this. The 4CMC of Metamorph makes his Vialability limited. As does his odd dissynergy with Coralhelm Commander (Won't copy the levelup counters, etc.) And your assessment of MM is dead on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalwalker
While I agree with this, and while I agree cutting Adept is a very frightening prospect and not one I will consider yet, you could -still- technically make the argument that Silvergill Adept is the worst creature (Of the Merfolk-type) in the deck, depending on the metagame. I personally don't think it is, but I've had games where he has been.Quote:
Did people just say Adept is the worst creature in the deck?? Do you know how nuts Adept is in this deck? Without Adept, decks can still keep up to Merfolks, but with Adepts, you're up 2 cards (a big body and a +1 card-advantage) to continually pressure and push your opponents out of the game.
In some metagames, Cursecatcher is unquestionably worse. But in some metagames, Cursecatcher outshines every card in the deck. It all depends. Merrow Reejerey is, to me, unquestionably the best of the lords, with Lord of Atlantis being a close second, and I'd never cut either of them over a Silvergill. Which leaves Coralhelm Commander and Merfolk Sovereign as the other two to compare him to. Most of the time, I'd take Adept over them, but not always. Coralhelm's slow, but huge and evasive and decent on his own. Sovereign's probably the worst of the four lords, but sometimes more Lords are still better than Adept. So it's a hard call to select the "Worst creature" in the deck.
Silvergill's drawbacks are twofold. One, he's absolutely horrible as a turn 5-7 topdeck when you're sitting on 3-4 lands and a Vial at 3+ or no Vial at all. Two, he's the only Merfolk in your deck that doesn't do any of the following:
1. Disrupt your opponent.
2. Make your other guys bigger.
3. Provide a form of evasion.
Cursecatcher does 1. Every Lord does 2 and 3. Sometimes you need these more than the card and body combination.
You misunderstand; perhaps you haven't seen very many successful merfolk lists. Running a fifth manland is a very common play, and Mishra's Factory is the only realistic option. This let's you leverage Standstill even more. There are 60 cards in the deck, no twenty--you can cut a non-land card for a land. So you could do -1 Daze, +1 Mishra's Factory, for instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Horsy
Running a fifth manland isn't a common play. It's an Alex Bertoncini play. Factory is a weird choice in the deck, especially given that he doesn't run Standstill, but it works for him. And a ton of his success is based on a combination of extremely excellent playskill and having a couple of byes moreso than one or two random card choices. So while I don't condemn Mishra's Factory, I think it's a stretch to lend it too much credit as having more than a marginal effect either way, Standstill or not. You'll win some games for having another manland, you'll lose a few for not having enough blue or not having the one card you replaced Factory with.
Some of us have been playing Legacy for more than the past six months. If deckcheck were still around, I could regale you with an assortment of lists featuring Factory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacosnape
Not to be greedy (well yes to be a little greedy) but im playing merfolk this weekend at boston. Any ideas for what the metagame will look like, any sweet sideboard tech out there? or any crazy changes to the main i should know about.
For reference I play mono blue with no standstills
Um, I've been playing Legacy since it was created. But that aside, I'll concede that other people run it. But more lists succeed without it than with it, and I stand by the point that the one Factory doesn't make much of a difference either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai
yeah, i've tried Factory for awhile now and it still seems underpowered to me. the bonus +1/+1 that it can give Mutavault isnt worth the untapped land most of the time.
most of the time I'd rather the Factory just be an Island. Its not bad, its just not good either.
I'm not sure that Mental Mistep is an auto 4 of. I can see it being a 2-3 of in the place of spell pierce, but even then, they serve different purposes and with MM giving you a bonus against bad matchups (Zoo, Gobos) but not having much value vs Affinity, and combo.
personally, when all is said and done. I bet we all will still be playing Spell pierce. Not that i dont want MM to be good. I do.
Not sure about auto-4-of status either on Mental Misstep, but I think your assessment is slightly off.Quote:
Originally Posted by yoshencranz
Mental Misstep is pretty good against most forms of Storm Combo, since it hits their accelerators, cantrips, etc. Making them overextend into a spell chain and then countering a Dark Ritual to shut off their ability to continue/ stick Ad Nauseam seems pretty easy with this card actually.
Against Affinity, it's not awesome, but it does hit some shit: Disciple of the Vault, Signal Pest, Galvanic Blast, Springleaf Drum, Pithing Needle (out of their SB), and Thoughtseize (SB). (And granted, yeah, not all versions of Affinity run all these cards.)
Anyhow... I'm starting to come round on Mental Misstep a considerable bit more. It seems like the card it competes with most directly (at least in my version) is Spell Pierce. And honestly, it's gonna take me some testing to figure out which I like the most in the main. I could even see running a split (yeah, yeah, I said it). I think I'm gonna end up running 3-4 copies somewhere in my 75 before all is said and done. But we shall see if it goes in the maindeck or what...