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Maybe board out 4 FoW and in 2 Misdirection + 2 REB or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by kiblast
Divert makes no carddisadvantage but it cost's 1 mana plus it's dead in the mid-/lategame, sure we dont expect to have a lategame because we play a tempo deck but well sometimes it happens too...
Matchups against midrange decks that play TNN tend to go grindy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulato
It all boils down if you want a reliable misdirection effect even late game, or you are looking for the early blow out that wins you the game.
BUG has too much discard though so you don't really want to bring in pitch spells. Divert is probably better.
Another card that should help with decks running TN Nemesis is Vendilion Clique. Flying over resolved Nemesi and/or taking the unresolved ones (or accompanying equipment) is a pretty strong answer to the strategy without warping our own.
I'm testing 1 Clique in my board going forward. It was time to rotate out the Sulfuric Vortex anyway.
I wouldn't fear to maindeck the Clique. After all, twelve threats are sometimes (Jund, Miracles) not enough. If only there'd be a spare slot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Borealis
__________
Double report!
I played RUG on Monday. The list was pretty usual:
//Qty Name
// Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
//\\
// Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
//\\
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
//\\
// Sideboard
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sulfur Elemental
R1, Leoš, Goblins
g1:I mulled to seven.
Leoš started with Vial while I had fast Mongoose and Delver. I also Wasted two Caverns and Bolted away the Instigator right before he overwhelmed me with his superior CA. Not even third goose was powerful enough to stop his Piledriver and War/chieftain horde esp. after I lost the red source.
sb: out bad counterspells, in Roughs, Needles, elementals, Grudge and Grip.
g2: I mulled to six.
Leoš once again started with a Vial, but I had Grudge redy, so my Goyf was big, no, it was bigger than that, it was huge. We exchaged quie some Wastelands, then in a relive-your-history I bolted away an Instigator and played Delver. Matron found Ringo but either i had Stifle or maybe it was an unlucky ringo or w/e. Rough later I flushed away his board but lost Goyf to Incinerator of which I should have thought. Fortunately I stillgot some critter to end the game.
g3: I mulled to five. Magic is fun.
I Needled the Vial and flipped Delver with FB that took care of Instigator. ("With our new Bad Dreams Pillow you may copy paste your adventures!") Matron found Ringleader and then SGC showed up and although I Bolted him, it was too late to recover, esp. when I lost green.
Loss, 0:1.
R2, Petr, Goblins
Legacy is diverse.
g1: I mulled to five. Magic is diverse.
My opening hand of Volc, doubleBolt, double FoW ws quickly exhausted and after I bolted Chieftain, Petr just played another few goblins to (Pile)drive me out.
sb: see above
g2: I had fast Goyf and I also had Grudge. I wasted his Cavern and generally took no care of his MWM. Then Warchief showed up so I promptly FBed him. Ponder, Mongoose, Mongoose and that's all she wrote.
g3: Petr had Vial, of course. I had Delver, of course. Btw, Warchief and Piledriver is Goblin's Goyf and Mongoose, but at least they do a little bit less dmg. I Stifled Matron and played another Delver who was Tarfired. Ringo showed zero Goblins. I Bolted lethal Piledriver and then Rough and Goyf sealed the game.
Win, 1:1.
Between the rounds I sold an U/B fetch to a really fine guy and we've agreed upon another fetchlands' trade.
My next opponent was also interested in my cards, but first things first...
R3, Stsung, Jund
g1: I mulled to six. Stsung had PFire online and sent my Delver to thrash bin. Then she hymned me. I Wasted Grove, but she found Sylvan Library. Than she tried Lili whih i pierced, but Library brought her CA and CQ and Goyf, DC (ok, Dazed...), BBE later I scooped.
sb: bah... I'm not sure. I took in Submerges, Needles Roughs and maybe something else, out went bad counters.
g2: I played Delver and then punted when instead of playing Submerge on GOyf before using my Waste, I just removed her Trop and then was stucked with unusable removal. I lost pretty fast.
Loss, 1:2.
I waited for her to return with cash for the jap. Heath and I was really tired and annoyed. Pretty bad evening so far if you ask me; I also needed to defecate. So I made sure I'm odd, then I dropped and rode home.
No matter what, the two sold fetchlands count.
_____________________
Today's list:
//Qty Name
// Lands
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
//\\
// Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
//\\
// Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Forked Bolt
//\\
// Sideboard
2 Rough/Tumble
3 Submerge
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Pyroblast
2 Flusterstorm
2 Pithing Needle
2 Sulfur Elemental
Yeah, it's the same. :smile:
A small note:
Well, I know all the stuff about how MtG conserves your money and "it's an investment" and such. But clearly leaving the job one hour sooner, driving the car through the jams and then spending money on fees... well, lets not start this again.
Otoh, I sold two Obliterators the moment I entered the lgs. Some guy was waiting for me, as the lgs had none of the big bad 'Gators.A lucky guy, if I'd be a bit slower, maybe he'd play Phyrexian Scutas instead.
G1, Bye
Hm. At least I had time for scouting. Scouting is important.
So I went scouting to a nearby sweet-shop wher I had a tart and a cup of cocoa. Then I went to a nearby shop and bought myself a bottle of Porto wine I had dreamt of for a few days. Upon my return I realized that it's too late to make the deal with fetchlands, as the next round was about to start.
Bye, 1:0.
G2, Luke, Doran
g1: I kept a four lands, Waste, Stifle, Ponder hand. Been on the play and unwilling to see any Waste-only mulligan today, I kept the hand after some hesitation.
I Stifled Luke's fetch, then I Pondered into another Stifle. And guess what use I found for it... a fetchland! But Lukáš found a land, but it was just a Waste-land. I Wasted it, losing some dual to it, but nvm, I had abundance of land, plethora of them and a real neoplasm. Or is it pleonasm?
Well, but I still had no threat and the effective mulligan started to be annoying, esp. as I drawn land after land. Lukáš played DRs which I Bolted (yay!) and then Jitte that I Dazed. (Magic is funny.) Finally Delver showed up and then BS brought Goose and then the light side won.
sb: I took out Forces with the idea that there will be enough of card disadvantage even without them. I kept Dazes, though. They're tempo. I shaved some Ponder and soemthing else. In went Needles, Rough, Submerges, etc. I'm not sure now.
g2: Of proactive cars, I played Mongoose, Goyf and Ponder. of reactvie cars, I played Daze (on Choke, kekeke) Submerge (on DRS), Bolt (on Goyf who together with the previously mentioned DRS gang-blocked my own Goyf), Stifle (Nihil spellbomb); then I rushed out of cards and although I managed to Snare the Confi, I lost to Ling. Souls.
g3: I kept a risky hand (three creatures, Bolt, Submerge, but no cantrip nor green) and was punished for it pretty fast. AD the Delver, Mystic>BSkull, Choke; gg, thx, cya, bb.
Loss, 1:1.
R3, Tom, Affi
I had Delver and Mongoose, but was stuck on one land. My opponent had Skirge, Pest and some artifacts like Drum. Ponder bricked and I still was on one land when he played both Frogmyte and Ravager. I tired another Delver and lost when he finally realized that he may sac the Ravager to feed Skirge. He even played it bad so my alphastrike would be enough if only only I'd drawn the stupid Volc to aim one Bolt to the dome.
sb: out two Stifles and two Froces, in KGrip, Grudge, 2x Needle, maybe something else.
g2: I had fast Goyf, but his draw was faster no less with multiple Pests, Frogs and an Ornithopter in the opening turns. I had pretty powerfull hand and just waited for a nice 2-for-1. But he decided to not block my mere 2/3 Goyf, so I just Bolted Frogmyte (the biggest threat so far) and on my next turn I even FBed two Pests.I preemptively Needled the Ravager, then I Snared the Plating and then I played Goyfannd then I won.
g3: This one was ugly. Though I was a bit behind due to being on draw, I gained a control of mu once I Pierced a Thoughtcast and then Grudged his only land. BS found Delver which I flipped fast, then on my 13 life (and his 22; yes, a Skirge again) I took the match over with Goyf.
Note: True Etched Champion is realy annoying.
Win, 2:1.
R4, Jiří, ANT
g1: Delver. BS Dazed, Delver flip, Delver. BS Pierced. Second Delver flipped. Third Delver. Eight Goblins. Delver flip, gg.
sb: out two Mongooses (I too twok Roughs), 2 FBs, 2 Bolts. In the named Roguhs and then 2 REB, 2 Flusterstorms.
g2: I played Delver. BS I Blasted, then another BS I Dazed but Jiří had fetch open... ok, I had the Stifle. I Snared the IT. I Flussed DRit. I pierced Duress. I won with the loneDelver.
Win, 3:1.
Quite solid result with a pretty nice fourth place that left me with no prize.
Magic is fun.
http://marycigarettes.files.wordpres...pg?w=640&h=480
MVP: Hm... Hard to decide. I think I like all the creatures, but Mongoose was outshined today. No Miracles and all-day stalls/combo are not the best environment for it. Also, double Nihil spellbomb sucks. Therefore no honeybadger jokes, sorry. Lets say that the MVp was the guy who bought two another Deltas and then even returned for a pack of Storm cards. :smile:
Overall feeling: Deck is solid. I need to be more courageous with the mulligans, though. Otoh, the deck plays so little "real and colored" lands that it's not hard to Waste-mull into oblivion. I still don't miss gy hate. I'd love to squeeze in Cage, thouh.Also, I don't have a smallest clue what I'm doing when siding. I thnk I need to develop/steal some goos sb strategy and stay true to it. The usual "sb out ths against that" doesn't really help when one doesn't know what he¨s doing.
I gotta stay true to the deck, butit shouldn't be hard after I sell everything else.
@Bed Decks Player: Thanks for your report.
Ryan has a nice article with his opinion on RUG Delver in the current TNN metagame.
http://www.quietspeculation.com/2013...to-rug-delver/
A real good article. His conclusion is that RUG Delver will profit from the new meta.
With combo rising and clunky midrange decks relying on cc3 spells we should be really happy now.
Nice article, thanks the for link Sasan.
While I'm not particularly thrilled about True-Name Nemesis as a card that exists, I'm not terribly worried about it either. There are already so many cards in the format that we can't let resolve, that another one really doesn't matter all that much. The fact that we can just up our Red Blast count, which is still very relevant against a lot of other decks, just makes it easier to ignore TNNs and keep doing what we do. I think Overturf makes some good points in his article about the metagame evolution going forward, and I'm glad someone is thinking ahead for us.
Well put!Quote:
While I'm not particularly thrilled about True-Name Nemesis as a card that exists, I'm not terribly worried about it either.
Sasan, I liked the linked article, thanks!
Given how RUG mirrors tend to revolve around Submerging and pushing past opposing Goyfs, I'm not sure that I'd be happy to play against a near-mirror like UWR that not only has real removal for RUG's Goyfs but replaces their own Goyfs with lifelinkers and unanswerable threats. UWR's threats are admittedly slower and less efficient, but they are much more powerful and completely unphased by Deathrite Shaman and other graveyard hate. They are even on-color to run the best graveyard hate in the format. It'll be interesting to see how the meta ends up panning out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
But Goyfs are not weak to REBs so that makes up a bit that Submerge is not active versus Patriot. Patriot is not a mirror game by the way. It has evolved to a blade midrange deck with Delvers. With Grudges and REBs the matchup is totally winnable. Just like you have to answer Cliques/Snappys now they have Delvers/TNN. The deck has not become faster. It is just Esper Stoneblade minus black, cliques, Jaces and Snappys plus Bolts/Delvers.
I agree with the fact that RUG Delver is not as bad as some players pretend in the current metagame. It feels that the rise of combo decks makes it a relevant choice. TNN is raceable and deniable, even if it's obviously a problematic card which leads obviously to akward situations (ie. countering RIP, facing TNN next turn. Probe helped me setting up my counters there, however I tried Snare et more removal instead of it which happened to be very effective against SFM and other "must-be-dealt-with" guys, again I don't know which card is currently better right now so I play what I feel more comfortable with). That being said, I have some problems with certain Merfolks builds. I played against a standard Merfolk deck, without Reejerey and packing 2 phantasmal Image and 4 Nemesis instead. I played several games. Without Nemesis in hand it's like the good old MU, tough but winnable the usual way. But Aether Vial and TNN backed up with with Images was a nightmare in most of the games, I felt it greatly lessens our chances of winning. I didn't fear TNN in Blade Control / Bant/ Patriot decks but here it was different. I was wondering if you guys experienced the same thing. I know that Merfolks is not currently one of the most important threats to deal with, but it has a significant place in my meta.
I play 2 Pyro / 1 REB, 2 Grudges in Sideboard, bringing obviously the 3 REB effects, still reluctant to board the two grudges (didn't see Jitte during the games).
Always board in Grudges versus Vial decks (Merfolk, Slivers, Goblins, DnT). It is a must!
Then the MU becomes far better.
Used to play with only one Grudge before and it was fine. But I definitely agree about boarding the two, keeping counters for what comes next to the vial...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
So I just jumped back into playing legacy after a long break and chose to play RUG. So far I've had no problem beating Patriot or UR Delver in the face of TNN. In fact I've lost exactly one game to double TNN but still won the match.
OmniTell, otoh, is giving me fits. Whats the best approach to that matchup? Any advice would be appreciated.
Should the topic title be changed to have the name "RUG Delver" somewhere in it? I'm not saying actually just replace it with RUG Delver, but it could be fit under the "a.k.a." part, as it's what the deck seems to most commonly be called right now.
No, screw those SCG deck names. :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Seth
What do you guys think of one remove soul or a negate in the maindeck?
Whatever your playing to solve with either of those cards, I feel like there is a better card. What are you trying to fix with thoseQuote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyKapree
Read the good old card Counterspell, become aware of the fact that we run blue only lands and come back to the thread to tell us that your idea is not good in legacy. Counterspell is that much better than your narrow cards :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ShiftyKapree
I'm not 100% sure about this. I also haven't played a lot of Tribal decks lately, in the past it's been mostly limited to Goblins and Merfolk. In both cases, I don't think I sided in more than 1 Ancient Grudge (or maybe Krosan Grip) for fear of drawing dead cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
Against DnT, or any deck where you are pretty sure they will also be running equipment, obviously the artifact destruction is good. But siding it in solely for vial... I'm just not sold on this. Drawing Ancient Grudge after turn 2/3 just doesn't seem great to me. Assuming you have enough other proactive cards to fight their permanents, I think it can be correct to leave out the artifact killers against non-Jitte decks, especially on the draw.
The Vial decks win by overwhelming the opponent with their ressources advantage. Either they can cast more spells a turn or use Vial for their creatures and their mana (Ports/Wastelands) to attack our mana base. In both cases the results for us are devastating. With an early Grudge for their Vial we have a real edge. I would board in 3 Grudges if I had them in the sb - and JUST for Vial. Just play the tribal matchups and come back and report if I am right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Borealis