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@everyone
Lots of Spirit of the Labyrinth in the builds. Was it good or did it reflect that a lot of DnT like the rest of Legacy players at the event were not Legacy regulars but people picking up the third position because they had a little Legacy experience?
@Medea_
2 Vryn Wingmare, very interesting. Was it significant? When was it good and when was it bad?
Thoughts on the sideboard?
I try not to cast it without getting value, so it's generally a 3 drop. It's a tricky card to play because sometimes you're supposed to just cast it instead of waiting for a target, and it can be hard to figure out whether you're in that spot or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koke_MTG
Out of Vial it's a 2, so it kinda averages out to be a 2.5.
Planning on streaming at 6:30 eastern! I'll be playing RW D&T and briefly looking at some decklists from the Open. https://www.twitch.tv/deathandtaxesftw
So last night I spent quite some time sharing my thoughts on the various SCG Open/Legacy Classic decklists. Here's the link to the Youtube video.
@redtwister
Wingmare #2 has been pretty good thus far.
I got another 5-0 with a Daredevil list last night. I'm 100% sold on the card at this point. I think cutting a SfM for the Daredevil is a reasonable choice, they play similar roles.
Interesting. What quantity do you like 1-2?Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
I think you want 2. It's a good card.
The guy on the Grixis Delver thread who just won the MODO challenge was also impressed with the pirate from his finals opponent.
I was thinking of playing BW after getting most of the DNT cards but it looks like I might have to try RW instead. (Also I really want to bounce PKN with Karakas ^_^)
Do people still think Pontiff is needed compared to other red options like Sparkmage or Lavamancer etc? I guess killing TNN makes it still one of the best removal options.
Medea can probably articulate this much better than I can: the red cards you list have similar applications (and overlap), but aren't 100% identical. One of those "a square may be a rectangle but a rectangle isn't necessarily a square." Pontiff's biggest upside is the one-time effect of obliterating your opponent's x/1 blockade. Mirror match, TNN, and occasional Elves boardstates. There are other scenarios like unflipped delvers, annoying baleful strixes, post-combat x/2 killings, etc. Sparkmage/Lavamancer are recursive removal with legs. They cannot wipe the table in 1 fell swoop, but certainly push board control in your favor (fair matchups).Quote:
Originally Posted by kombatkiwi
Is BW superior to RW or RWb (ie; Madea includes Pontiff with RW lists)? How do splashes compare to mono-W? Madea's most recent Thraban article about RW did a very solid job expressing how splashes are redistributing matchup % from A and moving it to B. So while a particular matchup may get better, you can assume something else is likely getting weaker. You're gaining vulnerabilities by splashing a color in the first place in exchange for a non-white game-winning card. Splashes don't make the deck strictly better nor is there a perfect list in general.
@Warden You did a fine job there. I'll write an article on this someday, but the way I envision each change to a decklist is by a series of matchup sliders. Each change you make influences your percentages against every deck in the format. There is rarely a true "best" version of the deck, but you hedge for certain things you want to beat at any given time and try to come up with the build you think ends up with the most overall positive matchups against what you expect to play. The changes you make often "cascade," so to speak, and lead to other changes.
Pontiff is a stupid good haymaker card that really increases your chances at beating Elves and TNN decks like Stoneblade. Playing a Pontiff does require some degree of commitment to it (if you actually want to deploy it on curve consistently), often doing something like maxing out on Caverns if you are already on a RW build. A choice like that leads to worse matchups against Wasteland decks and makes some of your true white cards harder to cast.
One thing you have to decide is how greedy you'd like to get in your splashes. Some people are happy enough splashing a Pontiff off 3 Cavern of Souls in an otherwise monowhite build. Other people want to run a Scrubland to fetch up. It's all about how much you think the card is needed, how early you want to deploy it, and how willing you are to wait and deploy it off a vial.
By popular demand, I'm going to stream with Dire Fleet Daredevil tonight. I'm planning on starting at 7:00 EST. If you have any thoughts on what the list should look like based on your testing, feel free to share them here.
Edit: List will look something like this:
Lands
3 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
3 Plains
3 Plateau
3 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
1 Windsweapt Heath
Creatures
3 Flickerwisp
4 Mother of Runes
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
1 Palace Jailer
Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard
2 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Path to Exile
2 Rest in Peace
2 Sanctum Prelate
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Containment Priest
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
1 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Orzhov Pontiff
Brian Mears in Philly rockin WW DnT in Round 7. Took game 1 versus Lands.
He looked pretty good doing it, and played well.Quote:
Originally Posted by redtwister
I do think he should have gotten out of game 2 faster than he did. He was in fairly good shape (though not guaranteed) to get game 3 if it didn't go to time.
This. I'm in tears laughing at the sheer awesome level being displayed by this gambit.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCunningham
Sent from my SM-N915V using Tapatalk
Hey folks,
My regularly scheduled stream times are going to be Monday and Wednesdays at ~7:00 PM Eastern time. This week I'll be playing the Dire Fleet Daredevil list again. I'll post when I stream outside of those scheduled times. Does anyone want me to post when I go live on Mondays and Wednesdays as well as a reminder?
xoxoxox -Phil
Agree that he generally played well, but I was practically screaming at my computer telling him to scoop that game two. It was fine to play through until the Relic Warder and Thalia died, but once they bit it and both Punishing Fire and Loam were running at full speed he was at effectively zero percent to win the game. Game three or in untimed rounds I am fine playing that out (look for mistakes, see which sideboard cards get Loamed over, etc.), but he would have needed a hand of 3 or 4 Surgicals, then stacked his deck after that to even have a chance. It also got them into some weird spots where the teammates were having a debate about how to pay for Tabernacle and how to use Port using time that they just didn't have room to play around with. I think he started pretty well in game three, and with just a little bit of extra breathing room or a few extra turns could have squeaked out a win. If that game starts with 11 minutes on the clock instead of 7 it is completely different.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moctzal
Myself (and maybe many people) get The Source notices in a weekly or daily digest, so the notices generally appear after they are relevant. You are starting to notify me a little more than I would like since I am getting the notifications in so many places, but probably there are not so many people in the world subscribed to every single D&T infostream. Anyway, posting this kind of thing to Twitter or Facebook or Discord seems to make more sense to me than posting here. Just my 2 cents.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medea_
Sounds like he was just one Sanctum Prelate short of handling it.Quote:
Originally Posted by geneyquakes
Twitch notices work pretty well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisCunningham
If you want to know when medea is streaming, you have to follow his channel.
Not sure if anyone noted this, but Dire Fleet Daredevil works even if you have Grafdigger's Cage in play. Exiles the spell from the graveyard, then allows us to cast it.
Not sure if that matters for us, since Rest in Peace is still the best choice, but thought I would point that out.
I might be underrating how good Prelate would have been on that board, but if I'm not mistaken he only had two lands anyway and no vial, and we he was facing down at least one Maze of Ith. Also Long had Barbarian Ring in the deck and if at any time that pops up it becomes actual zero percent. Another issue is that while Long wasn't slowplaying by any means, he was taking very long turns. He had an exploration, Loam, stages, and was being very careful to protect his Punishing Fires. Lands in that spot is a massive favorite to win, and will also very likely eat up huge portions of the clock. DnT in that spot is commited to just jamming any basic Plains, Recruiter, Vial, or Prelate into play and otherwise doing absolutely nothing, while Lands is going to take 30-40 seconds a turn almost by default.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
I don't know his exact sideboard, or what his outs were, and honestly it is possible he wasn't even really looking at the clock. My gut reaction, especially with the clock ticking down on the screen right in front of me and a full look at his opponents, was that he just wasn't going to win and using 4 extra minutes to lose just makes G3 that much harder. I could very well be wrong but staring at that clock ticking down just bugged me out for some reason.
When you are in a feature match, you usually have no view of the clock. It's a little frustrating. The players probably had no idea how far into the round they were.Quote:
Originally Posted by geneyquakes
Hello fellow Death and Taxes enthusiast!
I have a problem i hope you could help me solve. This is my current List. Im splashing Magus of the Moon and Pontiff with 4 Caverns and Vials (Yes i know the numbers, odds etc of doing so; Thx Thrabenuniversity / Medea ) and i quite like the concept. You gain extra point in Matchups where Cavern is awesome, loose some because it does not cast Swords/ Gideon, but get some free wins against Bug/Czech Pile decks/ TNN etc. But thats not why im here...
My list:
4 Aether Vial
4 Mother of Runes
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Flickerwisp
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
2 Magus of the Moon / Pontiff
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
8 Plains
Sideboard:
2 Path to Exile
1 Councils Judgement
2 Orzhov Pontiff / Magus of the Moon
2 Rest in Peace
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
Questions:
1. What configuration of Pontiffs / Magus would you choose and why. 2 Magus Main, 2 Pontiff Sideboard? 1+1 Main and 1+1 Side ? Only 1 Pontiff ? Let me hear your thoughts
2. I wanna squeeze in a Leonin Relic Warden to improve the (nowadays not so good) Sneak & Show Matchup (Omniscience :frown: ). Thoughts and if you aggree... which card to cut?
3. How do you fight the "new" Miracles ( Search for Azcanta Version ) ? At the moment im relying on Councils, Sword of War and Peace and Gideons... Any card im missing out of my board? Is it time to switch to Cataclysms again instead of Gideons ?
Thank you for reading and or responding! If you have any questions yourself regarding my list feel free to ask. Im no professional but im grinding this deck since 3 years :wink:
1. Magus of the Moon is stupid good. He steal so many games. I'd run two main.
2. If you want to fit in Relic-Warder, I'd drop CJ. They cover many of the same things.
3. In addition to what you started, Pia and Kiran Nalaar is really good at grinding people out. Gideon and Cataclysm are about the same. Gideon is a bit better when you are ahead or at parity. Cataclysm is better when you are behind.
I'll chip in that if I was running a splash build without Council's Judgment, I'd prefer Cataclysm to Gideon because it deals with Planeswalkers.
Thx Medea and Moctzal for your input!
I will stick with 2 Magi Main and Gideon then.
And i will test the CJ - Leonin swap. I already swapped the second CJ for a Pontiff since he also gets rid of TNN and i always felt that was one of the main reasons to play CJ at all.
If anyone else has some general critical thoughts about my list please feel free to share :smile:
Hey everyone; just wanted to briefly chime in.. I ran Daredevil at SCG Dallas a week ago (my team got 20th place) and I went 9-4 (and 2 matches didn't get to finish due to my teammates)Quote:
Originally Posted by iatee
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=118322
Daredevil was great all day and I will be playing 2 going forward.
#1 the gotcha moments are real; until people figure it out of course. My favorite moment:
I had Batterskull, thalia, Flicker, and Mom in play vs. Esper deathblade opponent who had his own skull in play. I attacked with my skull and flickerwisp; he made his block and then cast Zealous Persecution. I vialed in Daredevil and Dazed his own ZP.
#2 Having another 2-drop first striker was very relevant; just hold equipment so well.
#3 being a RED creature came up a lot; lots of dreads of night.
#4 I did end up boarding out a SFM in many games because it felt like mystic and daredevil overlapped a lot of the times.
#5 I mainly bolted and brainstormed. I would have like another recruiter just to increase my capability to "perfect brainstorm." The brainstorm where I drew a recruiter and was able to put back two redundant thalias; then recruiter to find a relevant threat and shuffle away the 2 extra thalia's felt so busted :D
#6 I played 3 plains. I really would have liked 1 more.
Also wanted to add Cataclysm was busted for me ALL DAY. I just ended the game so many times with that one card one time nabbing 2 Lily's and 4 creatures in one go. A few Jace's; even an Ugin (vs. 12 post).
Mmmmm, I like it when you talk dirty.Quote:
Originally Posted by AsmodeusDM
Seriously though, DFD opens up a ton of really weird lines. I had a game on stream last night where I got to Fatal Push and Decay two threats out of Delver and buy a ton of time. That's some great value and flexibility. I'm going to keep testing the card. There's some tension with other parts of the deck (especially RiP and Thalia), but I am officially intrigued. I'm not 100% convinced it is better than other options, but I'm sure I want to play it for another week or two to gather more data. My results have been 3-2 every time in 3 or 4 leagues now (which is sub par for me), but the card itself has been fine. If I could stop getting paired against Elves...
We dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medea_
to Kaesejay question ;
i run more or less same config . 4 cavern 1 pontif main / 1 magus main .. and one each in SB... having 2 reqruiters is enough for me to justify the one/one split game for one .... as stellar as they can be you have still also games where they are underwhelming.
one thing however i did change after with a lot of initial reluctancy was removing 1 rishadan port for an extra white source .. because the need and constraint on White is just so preassuring... even more so with 4 flickerwisps and gideon / cataslism aspirations.. its not the blasphemy i thought it initially to be...
and one less port, is one less sub optimal port activation to worry about ... still think port is the most skill intensive card by far in the deck, with lots of room for error's to be made
greerts
PleasantKenobi recently did a runthrough of RW Taxes with Daredevil full of usual memes and dry British humor. It's an interesting list with more 3 drops than I'm really comfortable playing and only 1 Cavern.
3 Mother of Runes
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Dire Fleet Daredevil
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
4 Flickerwisp
2 Mirran Crusader
2 Magus of the Moon
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Cavern of Souls
3 Karakas
4 Rishadan Ports
4 Wasteland
3 Plateau
3 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Flooded Strand
2 Windswept Heath
SB:
2 Path to Exile
1 Disenchant
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Honor the Pure
2 Rest in Peace
2 Council's Judgment
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer
1 Cunning Sparkmage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Magus of the Moon
In case you're at work or something, the results of the league worked out like this:
0-2 Grixis Delver
2-0 Spanish Inquisition?
2-1 BR Reanimator
0-2 Grixis Delver
?-2 Deadguy Ale?
It felt like he was pretty out of practice and kept risky hands. It was still entertaining, and I think his variant is at least somewhat worth discussing. A lot more WW cards despite the red splash, and I'm feel pretty good about his decision to have a third Magus in the board.
It seemed like a pile of randomly thrown together cards poorly piloted.
That video's largely for entertainment purposes. Not much to be learned there.
Haha yeah who would run mother of runes, thalia guardian of thraben, wastelands, ports, sfm, etc in D&T anyways? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Moctzal
New favorite Dire Fleet Daredevil story.
Played against Goblins with Pyrokinesis. Play DFD, use that plus exile an excess red card from my hand and Plague Wind him.
It's the varied card choices made that differ from other RW lists that don't look very reasonable. Cutting a Mother of Runes, running 4 Flickerwisp, some of the sideboard decisions, etc. It doesn't look very reasonable, and there's no explanation given. So it appears to be a set of whimsical choices made by someone who's not concerned with selecting cards with a reasonable process in mind. It's just someone making a video for entertainment purposes, with a new hotness variant of a deck the creator likes. That's fine, but I don't think it merits any serious discussion here.Quote:
Originally Posted by CptHaddock
So the obviously stupid question is, does Dire Fleet Daredevil make it worth running Grafdigger's Cage instead of Rest in Peace?
Clearly, RiP is just solid against DRS and Goyf in ways that Cage is not, but Cage is very useful versus Elves, stops Snapcaster Mage, is better as a turn 1 play against Reanimator and good against Dredge, decent against ANT (not TES, if I remember correctly), etc.
Are you all siding in RiP enough against the DRS and Goyf decks to make it worth it?
Since so many people run a 1-of Surgical Extraction/Faerie Macabre alongside RiP, does it change how we think about graveyard hate? Or is the nonbo simply not that much of a problem?
I'm guessing I am missing some giant hole in my thinking.
@piroko139
I think the list is sub-optimal. The pilot has a post going on Reddit on /r/mtglegacy if you want to follow up there.
@Redtwister
Unsure on how I feel about the RiP/DFD situation. I'm actively working on this.
I know in modern when I play Snapcaster decks, I like having something like a single RIP for the really heavy GY decks like Dredge or Living End, and then 1-2 Relic of Progenitus against moderate GY decks (Grixis Shadow) to keep my own cards in my own GY for Snapcaster Mage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Medea_
I can see some merit in considering a spread of GY hate, like 1 RIP, 1 Relic of Progenitus, 1 Grafdigger's Cage, 1 Surgical Extraction, 1 Containment Priest and then bring in the ones that are good in each given matchup.
Cage also already has some other upsides (1 mana hate is a little faster vs Reanimator and ANT, it hoses Green Sun's Zenith, and give you some diversity if you have multiple hate pieces in play vs cards like Reverent Silence and Echoing Truth).
So it depends on how the things lost from multiple copies of RIP compare to the upside on DFD (I think it'll take some times and matchup analysis to figure out if it's worthwhile to slide the GY hate configuration in the deck around).
My LGS had two of these decks appearing out of the blue.. couldnt find any answers to their mana acceleration, ballistas and steel overseer pumping them up..
Any advice on how to take on this matchup with mono W?
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=18145&d=312501&f=LE