Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
Which land is better and if you should cu Dryad Arbor really depends on your list. Please post.
Tower is much better than stronghold and arbor. I am not a fan of arbor because it does not suit our game plan and seems frivolous by getting swept by deed as well as being a wasted land drop. Corner case t1 gsz for 0 but I believe gsz is rhino and rhino is the best so why waste it on some stupid creature land that has iden(tity)[lol] problems
Stronghold is slow and we don't need more top end, tower gets us ahead so we can resolve our threats and close out the game.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ayotte
Because it got posted to reddit for that tournament report, I think.
Wonderful! More exposure is great. We just have TO behave and act natural.
Fun fact: Nic Fit is Latin for Ricardio. therefore I created the archetype. BOW!
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
madlameguy
Nic Fit Tournament Report - SCG Baltimore Legacy Classic - 6th Place
First of all, congratulations with your excellent result.
Glissa is probably unnecessary. I was playing against Eldrazi with Punishing Fires version and was putting up a good fight knowing that the Junk list would have been able to win that match faster giving that A. Path to Exile only costs 1 mana and B. it hits that bigger dudes aswell. In this case an Endbringer that was the bottleneck in game 1.
RecSage/QPM where either is strictly better depending on the build. However, unless in a focussed meta, it should be in the board where G1 it won't be a dead draw. In a vacum QPM is less dead as mentioned by making Rhino little bigger.
Deathrite Shaman is an excellent card, if only it didn't die from Deed. So far 2 copies have proven to be the correct number, but still in some MU's it definitely shines. Having 2 extra copies in the board for those MU's feels even better.
Courser and Nissa, this is a debate that will probably never be concluded but i am ready to cut both and see if the list gets more focus on overall.
Since Path to Exile is giving away free lands against Miracles i find myself blowing up Veteran Explorer more often against them and it hasn't been that awfull giving that you'd need some solid play to follow up. Slaughter Games and Garruk Relentless defenitly help here. Hoping that the new Sorin will contribute even further and that Sorin also breaks symmetry by creating CA and hammering on the life total. It does seem to make Siege Rhino more obnoxious.
4 Path to Exile have been incredible against Lands and other big dudes.dec. I went back to 3 but it fell a bit short. Also with a large removal package you can spam removal more, literally frustrating them. Some guys actually said: "Sjees, how freakin much of those are you playing?". On the other hand i was missing removal that could take out Jace or Batterskull. Extending the removal package would be stretching it to far. So i might find that Anguished Unmaking has the ability to take up the roles of both McPulse/Vindicate AND Path to Exile. The only worry i have is the lifeloss. To the very least i am going to be testing 2 copies.
On thing i am still going back and forth with is Slaughter Games. Running them makes the manabase a little bit awkward. On the other hand, having 4 Deahtrite Shaman in the 75 it might be very reasonable to keep running them.
I am hoping on some more community input on splashing red for SG.
Finally i have been disappointed by Meren. Like stated, against Swords decks it is horrible. It shines most againt BG decks, but Sigarda and the deck on overall has a decend MU against BGx like BUG Delver or Shardless. However, NicFit in general really likes it recursion and am looking into the direction of something to replace Meren. Options are:
Primeval Titan coupled with the Two Towers. PrimeTime also gets the ability to filter the deck, and fetch Karakas under a Show and Tell.
Sun Titan coupled with Pernicious Deeds is one of the most horrifying things i have ever locked oppenent's with. But the deck does not have to much CMC 3 minus, unless the build adepts this as a strategy. Also Sun Titan kind of requires cards like Diabolic Intent. Which on it's turn makes Eternal Witness very nasty.
Recurring Nightmare is also solid here, but the list in general doesn't run to many creatures (15'ish)
Of all the recursion Sun Titan has given me the most broken interaction and came up pretty often. Also PrimeTime with the Two Towers has done some consistent work in my PFire lists.
So in the end, i agree that around 69 of the cards are pretty much set, but those last 6ish keep breaking heads.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ayotte
Because it got posted to reddit for that tournament report, I think.
I keep forgetting Reddit exists.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Two Phyrexian Towers would be the other option I didn't mention. I would be willing to try that too, honestly I feel that with 1 Tower it just doesn't show up often enough. I remain unconvinced it's worth it though because I really like using GSZ for 0 to help supplement early land drops. I do it less so for the ramp and more so just to hit my mana, it makes the deck far more consistent while you're setting up.
I realize Dryad Arbor is a bit controversial lately but I think it's pretty much indispensable in the list. Having an effective 26 lands in your deck in the early turns is huge for consistency, especially once you can essentially cut 4 lands in the middle of the game. I find that if nothing else being able to get it in matches where you can't afford to give your opponents lands off of Veteran Explorer is huge, and I think that it should be SB material if nothing else for that reason, because sometimes you just can't use Explorer but this deck does need a certain amount of mana to function.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
Which land is better and if you should cu Dryad Arbor really depends on your list. Please post.
The SB changes a lot and contains most of the usual options (though I prefer Faerie Macabre as my dedicated GY hate when I go beyond an additional Ooze) so I'll just list the MB.
22 Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
3 Forest
2 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
Creatures 16
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Siege Rhino
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
Non creatures 23
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sylvan Library
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Painful Truths
1 Toxic Deluge
I should probably note that the local meta is probably the fairest meta in the US. The stores weekly tournaments allow full proxy so after the first few weeks of that, everyone who plays with proxies got the unfair decks out of their system and tend to play the more fair/interactive stuff rather than trying to combo, and those of us with the decks have gone in that direction as well. So there's a lot of various Delver decks, Burn, D&T, Miracles, Young Pyromancer, Shardless, Metalworker, Stone/Death blade, and so on. There's very little to no Dredge, Storm, Reanimator, etc... which is just fine with me. This means that most matches go pretty long, and it means that I find very little need for the Slaughter Games that many have taken to running and instead focus on a 7th basic land over a Taiga, which has been fantastic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bobmans
Courser and Nissa, this is a debate that will probably never be concluded but i am ready to cut both and see if the list gets more focus on overall.
I really like Courser because of the interactions with Sylvan Library and Divining Top. Courser is amazing for grinding out games adding a lot of value every turn, even if it's a bit lacking in raw power. Nissa on the other hand I just don't like after playing her for a bit. A 3 mana 2/2 just isn't good enough, she flips too late, and the flip side isn't good enough. I can get a similar amount of card advantage out of Courser, get that advantage online sooner, and gain some life in the process, plus negging for a 0 CMC card that loses to Goyf isn't where I want to be.
If you were to cut both, what are you considering replacing it with?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Saturday is my first tournament with nic fit
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/382111#online
-1 Ethersworn Canonist
+1 Toxic Deluge
I guess
List of Ricardio because it was the one I enjoyed, I can not tell if it's the best today but I think it's out there I'll start, you think this list is the best today?
My meta is basically
Jund, Miracles, Elves, Blades, Goblins, DaT and sometimes Painter and Storm.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Feel free to credit me for being your inspiration/building the deck on your Reddit thread, madlameguy. I definitely wouldn't mind an ego boost ;)
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brael
If you were to cut both, what are you considering replacing it with?
Painful Truths x1, Diabolic Intent x1. Trade Pulse for Vindicate, methinks.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Feel free to credit me for being your inspiration/building the deck on your Reddit thread, madlameguy. I definitely wouldn't mind an ego boost ;)
If that happens, you might accidentally break the internet.
@Brael: It's perfectly possible to run Dyad Arbor and 2 Phyrexian Towers. That'd leave you with my manabase.
Also, Dryad Arbor is a creature, not a land. Yes it takes up the land drop when you cast it, but when theorizing it should be treated as a creature. That's the role it plays.
@Ricardio: It pleases me that you're impressed by my balls and that they cheer you up.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
For Tower vs. Stronghold, it absolutely depends on the version, and the list. In Fire or BUG, I would usually rather go for Stronghold, in Rhino versions Tower is stronger. It really depends on what the deck tries to do and what the list is. In pure GB you could also pull off 2 Tower, 1 Stronghold.
I think Dryad Arbor is bad in general, would need a very specific deck to be worth it.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
I think Dryad Arbor is bad in general, would need a very specific deck to be worth it.
Its value is fully dependant of the pilot.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
sdematt
Feel free to credit me for being your inspiration/building the deck on your Reddit thread, madlameguy. I definitely wouldn't mind an ego boost ;)
Everyone is a little better off if they get credit on Reddit. ;-) Honestly, I'm always surprised when people play a deck and are unaware of The Source as a resource.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
Its value is fully dependant of the pilot.
Is that a joke?
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
Is that a joke?
Not quite. Its applications are many (and vary between MUs) and the use of those applications is fully dictated by how mindful the pilot is of those applications.
To clarify: I'm not saying that better pilots make Dryad Arbor an insanely powerful card, I'm saying that if you keep Dryad Arbor in the back of your head as a multitool, it gains more value than it appears to have at first glance.
You're obviously very much against the use of Dryad Arbor and that's fine. Let's try the following: Without putting too much thought into it (since you can't sit and think for half an hour when locking horns with an opponent), post a list of uses you'd have for Dryad Arbor. Then let's make it a communal thing and see if people can add to that list (i.e. expand the communal mindfulness of how Dryad Arbor can be beneficial). Let's see where we end up compared to the starting point.
In other news: The buddy I was supposed to go to the tournament with has to work saturday so I choose to spend some quality time with my significant other. We are dropping by the store saturday to pick up my new toys, but they're not going to see any play just yet. Hopefully I manage to reschedule with my buddy so I can put the new list (including Sorin) through the wringer.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Echelon
@Brael: It's perfectly possible to run Dyad Arbor and 2 Phyrexian Towers. That'd leave you with my manabase.
Also, Dryad Arbor is a creature, not a land. Yes it takes up the land drop when you cast it, but when theorizing it should be treated as a creature. That's the role it plays.
That's another possibility, give up the 7th basic. I got into the habit of running a third Forest after playing Nissa and I kind of like it. Not counting Arbor i have 15 sources of T1 green mana (9 fetch, 3 duals, 3 forests) and 12 sources that are Wasteland proof which is just about where I want to be numbers wise to make sure I have green mana on the play on a mulligan. If I were to go down that route and drop to 6 basics I think it would actually be the second Plains or the second Swamp that I would cut though, leaning towards the Swamp.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
we can now add arbor to the discussed into oblivion list, alongside courser and sfm builds.
I have been milling over the idea of cutting S games from junk sideboard and I believe it is the right course of action. Coupled with helping the manabase, I think it frees up 3 important sideboard spots. I am not sure when soi is legal on mtgo, but that is when I will revisit rhino and grab a sorin to aid in my crusade.
SIDE NOTE: Just finished daredevil s2 and DAYUM. 10/10 would recommend.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
I have been milling over the idea of cutting S games from junk sideboard and I believe it is the right course of action. Coupled with helping the manabase, I think it frees up 3 important sideboard spots. I am not sure when soi is legal on mtgo, but that is when I will revisit rhino and grab a sorin to aid in my crusade..
Looking at Aggro Loam, they run amount a total of 4 hatebears (more or less) Revoker, Cannonist, Container Priest and Thalia. Aside some differences, one could say this this is a fine idea to look at.
Regarding Sorin, i see him mainly vs Control MU's, but would you suggest running it MD or SB?
As for replacing Courser and Nissa? I have no idea. Next to 2 copies of Painful Truths i was pretty happy with the amoubt of CA so it is kind of though.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
we can now add arbor to the discussed into oblivion list, alongside courser and sfm builds.
I have been milling over the idea of cutting S games from junk sideboard and I believe it is the right course of action. Coupled with helping the manabase, I think it frees up 3 important sideboard spots. I am not sure when soi is legal on mtgo, but that is when I will revisit rhino and grab a sorin to aid in my crusade.
May I suggest testing abeyance instead of S.Games ?
Here is where I am at the very moment.
- Cut Meren + Shriekmaw for Rhino 4th and 3rd AD.
- Cut DLD for the 3rd Painful Truth.
1 Karakas
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
2 Plains
2 Scrubland
2 Swamp
3 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Eternal Witness
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
4 Siege Rhino
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
2 Vindicate
3 Painful Truths
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 1 Engineered Plague
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 3 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 3 Abeyance
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ralf
How do you use Abeyance? Cast it on upkeep when you expect them to go off that turn? Cast it in response to Dark Ritual? I'm interested in this tech, but I'm a little skeptical of reactive answers in a deck like this one.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ricardio
I have been milling over the idea of cutting S games from junk sideboard and I believe it is the right course of action. Coupled with helping the manabase, I think it frees up 3 important sideboard spots. I am not sure when soi is legal on mtgo, but that is when I will revisit rhino and grab a sorin to aid in my crusade.
I definitely feel that Slaughter Games is worse than it used to be, but I'm fond of it from my Jund days.
Are you still playing Ethersworn Canonists and Thalia for storm? If I cut slaughter games, I'd just have additional discard, Teeg, and surgicals. That makes me a little nervous. There's something warm and fuzzy feeling about looking through a storm players deck and taking things out.
PS - SoI should be legal on Friday.
Re: [Primer/Deck] Nic Fit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ralf
May I suggest testing
abeyance instead of S.Games ?
Here is where I am at the very moment.
- Cut Meren + Shriekmaw for Rhino 4th and 3rd AD.
- Cut DLD for the 3rd Painful Truth.
Did you run 2 copies of Meren?
On overall your list looks pretty solid.
Not really sure about Abeyance, typically we want something that lasts longer then a turn and we want to tap-out. Effects like this suite more in a deck much faster clock, where we are grindy in most MU's.
Lately PrimeTime + Two Towers are back on my radar, while i am also on consideration to cut Meren. Taking in account Ricardio's thoughts on SGames this enables the Stronghold position back into the manabase.
