Well, the new goblin isn't "exactly" a one drop, since he doesn't do much on his lonesome. You need some kind of a board position first.
Printable View
Well, the new goblin isn't "exactly" a one drop, since he doesn't do much on his lonesome. You need some kind of a board position first.
I was complaining about the lack of one-drop goblins :) well,this is not exactly what I expected, but seems good aniway. Not overestimate him though, because the only card in our deck that gets strong benefits from the battalion trigger is goblin piledriver. If I'm going to play army loyalist i'm also going to play 4 piledrivers, i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenShorty
The hate against batterskull /entreat the angels/ lingering souls is a good addition.
Attack with piledriver ,army loyalist and some other goblins, then give piledriver double strike with boros charm = alpha strike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasan
On first sight I'd say he's a 2-off, maybe more. But Piley becomes more and more sexy with him, 'cause you can't chump block 15/2 with trample ;)
Even on his own he's a 1/1 with haste-seems good on the play and makes goblins more reliable.
I wonder how Army Loyalist is any better than Bloodmark Mentor???
quick comparision:
Loyalist ~vs.~ Mentor
* Manacosts: R ~vs.~ 1R
* Body: 1/1 with Haste ~vs.~ 1/1 with First Strike
* Ability: provides First Strike and Trample when attacking ~vs.~ provides First Strike when attacking or blocking (even if he himself does not engage in combat)
I do not think that having Haste is what we necessarily need from a creature with a 1/1 body. On top of that, costing 1 mana opposed to 2 mana is not necessarily a problem when you think at which moment in the game the care will actually enter the battlefield/ become active. As we already figured out, neither card will be a 4-off, that means you will likely not draw the card before turn ~5(?). At that point it should be obvious that costing 2 mana is not a big deal. Also, when you are in a grindy, defensive kind of position where you need to chumpblock a little (to prepare for the alphastrike) Mentor seems much more valuable to me, since he provides first strike even when blocking and even IF HE DOES NOT ATTACK! Providing Trampe is also not what any goblincard (other than Goblin Piledriver) needs - as you might know: 1/1 or 2/2 creatures with or without trample doesn't make the difference.
So, for anybody is going to test Army Loyalist, please do everyone a favor and insert a proxy-card into a sleeve that can either be Loyalist or Mentor. Then, at any point in the game when you draw the proxy card, take notes on which one would be better.
~Army Loyalist - seems like another goblins that is crying to be used in combination with many "lords".
I am also a sceptic. What is an army of 1/1's and 2/2's going to do with trample and first strike when attacking? Army Loyalist also suffers from Piledriver syndrome, meaning he is only relevant if you have board postition to attack with 3+ goblins. Piledrivers have been reduced to about a 2-of in many lists for this very reason. The token evasion ability is very interesting, and to the best of my knowlege completely unique in the game? Time will tell if it is any more than that. I hope I am wrong, but I don't see this as any more than a 1-of in the SB, at best.
MUST CHIME IN WITH $0.02
Saw the spoiled gobbo and at first I was all :laugh: then I realized he does nothing in multiples and I was all :rolleyes:. SO I WROTE A SWEET PROS AND CONS LIST
PROS
His ability is a game ender under certain circumstances.
Battalion resolves whether or not your opponent responds to your attack with removal.
Obviously ~Loyalist makes Piledriver better.
Battalion is evasion from Germs, Spirits, Faeries, Angels and Goblins.
First strike makes Burn better in combat.
Proactive Tempo boost
Goblin Pyromancer??? I'm trying....
Loyalist might make Goblin Guide playable.
He makes a Mogg Fanatic play the old damage-on-the-stack rules
CONS
Battalion is conditional.
Battalion is not a cumulative effect, so multiple ~Loyalist in hand = a bad hand
When Battalion's condition is not met, Loyalist is just a Raging Goblin. Nobody wants to play Raging Goblin.
If it was a bad idea to attack without a Battalion trigger, it will probably still be a bad idea to attack with a Battalion trigger (Lackey, Loyalist and MWM together still don't want to attack into DRS + Goyf).
I'm guessing ~Loyalist will be a 1-of. Maybe 2. When it's released I'll try it out as a 2-of in a list with 4 Piledriver. Something like...
4 Vial
4 Lackey
2 Loyalist
4 Piledriver
3 MWM
4 Gempalm
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Stingscourger
1 SGC
1 Krenko
2 Chieftain
2 Tarfire
20 land
So like I told at the German board: I don't see the Loyalist in our deck atm. If we are able to attack with more than 3 creatures, we will normally win in a few turns so the Loyalist would become win more.
If we can't attack, we have another 1/1 dude. First strike doesn't matter because normally (without 2 or more lords) all aother creatures are bigger than our green men.
Sure, Token can't block us but in my historie: When I lost against UW by Angels, it was because I made mistakes and not because he had angels. Against Lingering Souls we also normally don't lose exept they have an active Jitte in addition. And Batterskull? We don't have to fear Batterskull.
So, the Token-thing isn't the point.
At least we have trample: The only Goblin, who need to became a trampler is a Piledriver. But also at this point: If we are able to attack with Pily and about 7 other Dudes, we are on the winner's side, don't we?
Fun facts from the OP..
Conclusion? The deck might have made a comeback due to Cavern of Souls.. but SFM into Batterskull is still one of the best early plays you can make against Goblins as a UWx control deck. Its forces them into Matron, into Scrapper, and if they bounce their Batterskull, what then? If you attack into it, he's gaining 8 life per turn while you're on a 5 turn clock. Now you can attack unblocked and practically ignore Batterskull instead of having to play around it. When you consider how hard Piledriver hits for, its even more relevant.Quote:
In 2011 with the release of Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull the deck was once again said to be “dead”.
First Strike means that when he's up against fat guys like Goyf and Knight, he'll live through it if you have a reasonable sized team. Piledriver will also connect more often because he has trample.. meaning he's much more than a removal spell.Quote:
Piledriver is a common choice for the deck. His insane triggered ability causes heavy damage to opponents lifepoints, when unblocked. However this is often not the case, since opponents place creatures and removal in his way – in fact he can be seen as an removal for creatures like Tarmogoyf, Tombstalker and sometimes even Knight of the Reliquary. Piledriver supports aggressive strategies and usually makes the deck more explosive.
I have a feeling that Army Loyalist could potentially facilitate an entirely new build of Goblins. Loyalist is great with guys like Mogg Warmarshall, hell I'd even take another look at Goblin Bushwacker, plenty of maindeck Goblin Chieftains, and Goblin Guide.
This is pretty much my thinking on this new guy as well. The trample is largely irrelevant unless your piledriver is being chumped and first strike will no doubt swing some combats in our favor...but I think the real "meat" on this card is the "cannot be blocked by tokens" part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
An interesting thought to be sure. Haste is somewhat relevant on the play vs. the current Deathrite Shaman problem. Note that all of the cards you listed are legal for play in the modern format...I wonder if such a deck could make waves there (no Ringleader though :cry:)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vacrix
My deck is almost finished, here's the list:
[Core] 22
...
[Others] 16
1 Tarfire
2 Chieftain
1 Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
4 Aether Vial
2 Piledriver
1 Sharpshooter
2 Sparksmith
2 Mogg War Marshall
[Lands] 22
4 Wastland
4 Cavern of Souls
14 Mountain
Thoughts on it?
I like army loyalist as a 1-of in the deck, I still like 4 piledrivers in my goblins and he makes them so much better and he only costs 1 :O!
I don't see the new guy getting much, if any, play. I am going to go back to my old favorite Goblin Pyromancer as a faster kill though. Vialing him in after declaring your attack is sweet and when combined with MWM makes for a very fast lethal (but well-timed) swing.
List is fine. I agree o others with dropping Sharpshooter though, and think yours could became a 3rd MWM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy
Fuck. Just saw I wrote I'd write a report. Should not drink and post again. Anyway, since I said it, here we go:
Deck:
4 Grove
4 Waste
4 Caverns
1 Taiga
5 Mountain
5 Fetch
4 Vial
4 Lackey
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
3 Warchief
2 Chieftain
3 MWM
1 Piledriver
1 TSH
4 Punishing Fire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Sparksmith
1 Stingscourger
2 Krenko
1 SGC
SB:
2 Kinesis
2 Krosan Grip
1 Ancient Grudge
3 Relic of Progenitus
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Boartusk Liege
2 Tuktuk the Explorer
23 lands because P.Fire is mana consuming, as the rest of our deck; 3/2 Warchief/Chieftain Split because I love playing with 2 Chieftain; 1 Pilly because he sucks against Midrange, and I was expecting few combos (same reason for 1/2 Sgc/Krenko); Was at 3 Pfire/1 Tarfire, but having P.Fire online is too awesome; Chalice because in that store there is a lot of burn; Liege for Plagues; Tuktuk the Explorer because he proved himself awesome against non-stp midrange decks, and in the mirror.
R1 - Elves
G1: I'm on the draw, mull 2 non landers to a 5 without removal, and he goes off T3.
G2: Mull into Groove, Waste, Sparksmith, Gempalm, Ringleader and SGC. I play T2 Sparksmith while he plays T2 Absolute Law. Nice life.
R2 - TES
G1: I mull a Lackey hand into a slow one, but die T3 anyway.
G2: I mull into Chalice + Warchief and P.Fire. Set Chalice @0, play P.Fire in response to a Duress, then Waste him 2 times before playing Warchief. He plays lands every turn, C.Therapies my Warchief, then next turn plays Wish, then makes 12 goblins on the other, using 3 LED just for storm. Meanwhile I had drawn a Chieftain and lands. Nice topdeck skills by me...
R3 - Affinity
G1: I keep a decent hand, but he is on the play, and get plating on the metalcraft 2/2 guy, and I can't find the TSH to save my life.
G2: Keep Lackey, K.Grip, Gempalm, Matron and lands. Fine. He drops 4 dudes T1 without a land. I slowly kill his guys, then finish him.
G3: He gets a T2 metalcraft dude, and a bunch of blockers. Lackey + Chieftain slow the game down. Here P.Fire makes it's firs appearance, killing 4 guys. Unfortunately, the turn after he goes to 0 cards, and I have a window to win, he draws a Thoughtcast, Dispatch a crucial Warchief and plays a dude. Next turn he draws a Thoughtcast, Dispatch the Chieftain and plays a dude. Next turn he Plays a Toughtcast, plays a dude, plays and equips Plating. I manage to kill all other guys he had, and Waste 2 lands, to get out of Plating range for a turn, so drawing a Matron or TSH or Grudge or Grip or Tuktuk the Explorer (would became a 5/5 COLORLESS dude after I P.Fire it) would save me, but it is all useless because he draws a 2nd plating and have 3 mana to equip it. Nice.
R4 - Bye.
And then I drop, getting the worst result of my life playing magic.
Still, I think the deck is awesome, and in testing beat the shit out off all other fair decks, while getting a nodge on the mirror. Will be playing something like this list more often.
I really don't think Army Loyalist is going to be as effective as a 1'of but perhaps as a 2'of. That means its more of a Matron target and most of the time, you have a better Matron target. Even against an opposing Batterskull, you'd rather find Scrapper. Loyalist is something you want to draw naturally or off a Ringleader. I figure if you're going to Matron it up, it will be for such niche situations that its not worth running. Loyalist seems better as a 2'of. Even if you draw multiples, that will be an asset against some decks.. like against an opposing Batterskull.
And yes, Goblins is going to be awesome in Modern.
I like jrw1985's list.. but with these changes..
4 Vial
4 Lackey
2 Loyalist
2 Piledriver
3 MWM
4 Gempalm
4 Warchief
4 Matron
4 Ringleader
1 Stingscourger
1 SGC
1 Scrapper
1 Krenko
3 Chieftain
2 Tarfire
20 land
Scrapper is rather crucial. I don't think you can really cut him from the maindeck. Piledriver is good with Loyalist but Chieftain seems better, especially with 3 MWM. I do like the idea of Pyromancer though. It might make a nice singleton Matron target, especially with a configuration with more 1 drops and MWM.
I don't think that Mentor vs. Loyalist is a fair comparison. It depends on the board state, but Loyalist is going to be better most of the time.. namely when you draw it off Ringleader. Costing a full mana less will be relevant if you don't already have a lord in play. When you do, they are still not equal because trample will be randomly better with Piledriver.. but the fact remains, none of that is really why you want to play the card. Thats all extra, even the haste is extra.
Its the fact that you can ignore Batterskull without having to waste a Matron to find Scrapper. They can only gain 4 life per turn instead of 8 life.. Goblins can win that race. That allows you to hold onto Matron and perhaps even find Chieftain and just swing in for the win right past the Batterskull. If you've actually played against Batterskull, you know it wins games against Goblins by itself. Besides, sometimes they can just bounce Batterskull and replay it and then you're fucked game 1 because typically you only play 1 Scrapper in the maindeck. I've played quite a few games, for example, against Death and Taxes. The entire game winds up revolving around me Matroning into Scrappers to remove equipment.. but they start with Batterskull. That gives you the option to use the Scrapper to remove other equipment, or blockers that would screw with your Loyalist. That basically forces them to remove Loyalist so you get to keep your other Goblins. When you have the Battalion trigger, which you should.. or else you're probably already losing.. then it even trades with Thalia, which also slow you down. It might not be a surefire way to get past Batterskull, but its another maindeck tool that directly counters UWx controls best strategy against you.
On a different note.. Sparksmith looks quite good in the current format. It gets rid of blockers, even Goyf sized blockers, and if you also want to play Loyalist, plays combat tricks quite well to keep your team alive. Also, if you have enough dudes in play, it keeps Batterskull off the table, and can kill creatures in response to equip.
Before I started playing Goblins, I thought MWM was gonna suck, but it's AWESOME. I see it as a pseudo-Time Walk against some decks.
I'm glad I picked the deck up! :-)
If ya wanna watch Mr Phillips play some legacy gobbos...
http://www.twitch.tv/search?query=ce...20legacy&stp=1
I saw something on my Siege Gangs, both are from Scourge, but one has a name with font that isn't as clear as the other, same goes for the type and artist name. Is it a misprint?
Army Loyalist is awesome.
First of all, assuming that Battalion is remotely difficult to achieve for Goblins is pretty much asinine. The entire goal for Goblins is to swarm the board and swing, and it does so extremely well even in the face of board sweepers like Terminus. Before this new Goblin, sometimes there would be issues alpha striking because of big blockers, in situations where doing so would lose more than it would gain. However, with first strike/trample/unblockable-by-tokens, the dynamics change. Instead of trading creatures and maintaining card parity, first strike can cause the opponent to lose blockers for card disadvantage. Instead of having a 15/2 that gets killed for no gain against Thalia, or trades with anything with power 2 or greater, now a bunch of damage will push through. Not being able to be blocked by Germ tokens, Spirit tokens, and whatever else... that's just icing on the cake.
Piledriver is going to be become absurdly powerful. Piledriver was usually a liability before, due to its lack of evasion. Giving them trample means that a pair of Piledriver's will literally be game-ending if the opponent doesn't have the immediate removal, even at 7/2 each. Even with Goyfs and Knights to block, they lose their big beats while Goblins loses nothing because of the first strike... and they can't even block with their Germ token.
Most aggro in the format does not have a very large ass (toughness), with a few exceptions like Tarmogoyf and Knight of the Reliquary. With a single lord pump, you're looking at a swarm of 2/2 and 3/3 first strike creatures, which will likely dominate the red zone. Not to mention the benefits with damage-based removal like Gempalm, Sharpshooter, Tarfire, Sparksmith, Lightning Crafter, Siege-Gang Commander, Pyrokinesis, so on and so forth.
The thing is, this guy is only 1cc, which happens to be a spot that this deck has been sorely needing more of. And it already makes sense to run Mogg War Marshal for its synergy with Gempalm, Chieftan, and Krenko... and of course, Piledriver.
Obviously Goblins lists are very tight, and it's just not possible to run everything. That's fine. It's going to take some tweaking and playtesting to figure out just how many of these to run (probably 2), how many Piledrivers to run (my gut feeling is telling me 4), so on and so forth. Regardless, this new Goblin makes the deck much more aggressive against many more decks.
I can also see this new Goblin spawning some Sligh-type builds with Kuldotha Rebirth, Brightstone Ritual, other token spammers (possibly even EtW), Piledrivers, Chieftans, etc. Would be an interesting deck, at any rate.
Goblin Burrows/Contested War Zone also becomes an option.