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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
I went back on my usual built of snareless/probeless and tested 3 tarfires main with 3 pierce main and it was incredible.
cut 1 goose for another goyf (since my list was 3goyf/1ooze main), dedication to grow a goyf was the plan.
Tested this deck vs of my team8 who pilots MAV decks (punishing/standard mav) real good. the deck felt more reach and more tempo as u can burn early drops EoT and never missed my old reliable forked bolts..goyfs was always early 4/5 with em tarfires, thus putting a lot of pressure for him to land KoTr early just to be met by dazes..with 7 burn spells, i think the deck went much faster..
I had a 1 foreign goyf in the set that i simulated if it was the 4th goose, though it can be targeted but some games that went the wire was for me reaching the finish line through 5-6 life points gained. Several games he managed a batterskull, but as long as u keep counterspells for stps..goyf will trump it.
it was a 5-1 result last night.. (rained hard and wasnt able to test them with our sbs coz we went out of the shop earlier)
this i will be bringing in the next tourneys (though im still thinking to go 2 tarfires/1fice) just to add a blue card for fow.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
poxy14
I went back on my usual built of snareless/probeless and tested 3 tarfires main with 3 pierce main and it was incredible.
cut 1 goose for another goyf (since my list was 3goyf/1ooze main), dedication to grow a goyf was the plan.
Tested this deck vs of my team8 who pilots MAV decks (punishing/standard mav) real good. the deck felt more reach and more tempo as u can burn early drops EoT and never missed my old reliable forked bolts..goyfs was always early 4/5 with em tarfires, thus putting a lot of pressure for him to land KoTr early just to be met by dazes..with 7 burn spells, i think the deck went much faster..
I had a 1 foreign goyf in the set that i simulated if it was the 4th goose, though it can be targeted but some games that went the wire was for me reaching the finish line through 5-6 life points gained. Several games he managed a batterskull, but as long as u keep counterspells for stps..goyf will trump it.
it was a 5-1 result last night.. (rained hard and wasnt able to test them with our sbs coz we went out of the shop earlier)
this i will be bringing in the next tourneys (though im still thinking to go 2 tarfires/1fice) just to add a blue card for fow.
Yep, against creature heavy decks this will work, but my main concern is combo and control (due to metagame, of course, and not only because of the most often matchups, but also due to the fact that combo-control meta will push the aggro decks to the lower tables), where three removal a bit suck. Otoh, it's just one burn more then usual (as i play 2 FBs) and they will feed the gy with sorcoeries, yo we'll end with pretty fast 5/6 Goyfs that kill in four turns.
I don't like Snareless builds. Snare is too good to not play it, at least as a one of.
Although it stops big part of D+T, the mere fact that they play Vial and SFM make it quite less appealling. otoh, they won't have it every time and post board I keep it for RiP (and Thalias when on draw).
Spell Snare is useful against every Goyf.dec, esp. Junk and such, where stopping Hymn, Goyf, Bob, Library, SFM or Jitte is crucial. In mirror you wanna win the Goyf war, although in the early game the most important is to not die to Stifle-Waste; post-board it's a dead card, of course, except if they take three Oozes..
Talking of ANT and such, they play IT, BW, CRit, each of them is worthy a counterspell, moreover Pierce might not work when they go LED, LED, IT, resp. Drit, resp. sac LEDs; that's when it's good to have unconditional counterspell... yet one that doesn't stop Duress, so maybe this is moot.
Elves and Goblins, though completely different, both completelly laugh at Snare, unless I'm missing something.
UW Miracles is where you want to stop RiP, CB (and ocassional Counterspell); Snare is very powerful here, as both cards stop you dead.
Maverick has pretty clogged the cmc2 slot, too. Btw, every SFM->BSkull defeats you. Snare's good to prevent it.
Burn. People play it and PoP exists. You won't have that many Dazes available...
Waht else?
But ok, if it works for you, fine. I'd be interested in your results, as I like the uniformity and consistency of your build. (I'd go as far as playing three Tarfires, no F/I.) Otoh, from my past experiences (back in time few months) I decided to not leave home withut Snares. Losing to Goyf is so humiliating...
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Yep, against creature heavy decks this will work, but my main concern is combo and control (due to metagame, of course, and not only because of the most often matchups, but also due to the fact that combo-control meta will push the aggro decks to the lower tables), where three removal a bit suck. Otoh, it's just one burn more then usual (as i play 2 FBs) and they will feed the gy with sorcoeries, yo we'll end with pretty fast 5/6 Goyfs that kill in four turns.
I don't like Snareless builds. Snare is too good to not play it, at least as a one of.
With the rise of tnn and combo decks in my meta lately, my snareless built was a meta call, upping my pierce MD to 3 and solely relying on burn vs resolved SFM and other annoying 2 drops. I did try ur list of 2snares/2pierce and was happy with it.. with lots of monouomnitell/show decks/belcher/ANT, i think i need to switch back to my older built for the meantime...
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
poxy14
With the rise of tnn and combo decks in my meta lately, my snareless built was a meta call, upping my pierce MD to 3 and solely relying on burn vs resolved SFM and other annoying 2 drops. I did try ur list of 2snares/2pierce and was happy with it.. with lots of monouomnitell/show decks/belcher/ANT, i think i need to switch back to my older built for the meantime...
Have you found andy special tech against TNN. No one plays it in our lgs, but if it shows up, I'd love to be a bit ahead. :smile:
For now I pack Stifles to cut them of important mana for long enough, and then counterspells for the actual spell, but is there anything else we can do? I fear our color combination is quite weak to it, unless we'll speak of specialized (and bad) crads like Curfew.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Have you found andy special tech against TNN. No one plays it in our lgs, but if it shows up, I'd love to be a bit ahead. :smile:
For now I pack Stifles to cut them of important mana for long enough, and then counterspells for the actual spell, but is there anything else we can do? I fear our color combination is quite weak to it, unless we'll speak of specialized (and bad) crads like Curfew.
That's basically the gameplan vs TNN, slow them down to get to 3 manas, reserve dazes and fows by the time they would be able to cast it..
on sideboards, we have anti artifacts to deal with equipments, and 3 REBS/pyoblasts should be able to keep them TNN's checked..
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
Have you found any special tech against TNN. No one plays it in our lgs, but if it shows up, I'd love to be a bit ahead. :smile:
For now I pack Stifles to cut them of important mana for long enough, and then counterspells for the actual spell, but is there anything else we can do? I fear our color combination is quite weak to it, unless we'll speak of specialized (and bad) crads like Curfew.
You are correct a resolved True-Name Nemesis can be a pretty big issue for RUG. However we do have ways to keep it from hitting the board. I am not sure what exact match up you are looking at. However, I play-tested the UR (with TNN) versus RUG match up extensively both pre and post board last weekend. The final result from 12 games (6 pre board and 6 post board) was (11-1) in favor of RUG. I lost one game I lost was a 2 lander one fetch, wasteland, and all dudes. I think it was 2 Nimble Mongeese and 3 Goyf. Which if my opponent hadn't the Wasteland would have been hard for him to deal with. I think my opponent, while not a UR expert, is a very skilled player and I don't believe that he made any glaring play errors.
In this match up (which I would expect to be similar to many of the other TNN match ups), we have to apply pressure while prioritizing the attack on their mana base. So on the play an early Delver is great. However Stifling their fetches is also great. You want to keep them off of 3-4 mana. You want to keep you Dazes live. Daze and FoW are our only real trump cards to TNN and Daze can be easily played around/through with counter magic. In my testing games, my opponent managed to stick TNN a few times, however this does not end the game. If you have a transformed Delver, you can keep crashing through. If you have 2 or more ground guys, you can attack through, sometime losing a Goose. In our games, the TNN almost always had to hang back an hold a Goyf from killing him which led to draw-go type turns. I think this typically favored RUG.
For the post board games, +1 REB, +1 Pyroblast, +2 Flusterstorm; -4 Spell Pierce. The REB and Pyroblast give to hard counters to the TNN. Flusterstorms are just better counter spells when fighting these counter wars.
So I would have to agree with the previous comments. You need to attack their mana base and clock them. Post board 2-3 REB effects are probably where you want to be. Flusterstorms can also help ensure you win the permission wars. I like Ancient Grudge right now as well for the :w: build with the SFM package. TNN is not all that scary when it isn't holding a Jitte or a Sword of X and Y. Hope this helps!
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sturtzilla
You are correct a resolved
True-Name Nemesis can be a pretty big issue for RUG. However we do have ways to keep it from hitting the board. I am not sure what exact match up you are looking at. However, I play-tested the UR (with TNN) versus RUG match up extensively both pre and post board last weekend. The final result from 12 games (6 pre board and 6 post board) was (11-1) in favor of RUG. I lost one game I lost was a 2 lander one fetch, wasteland, and all dudes. I think it was 2 Nimble Mongeese and 3 Goyf. Which if my opponent hadn't the
Wasteland would have been hard for him to deal with. I think my opponent, while not a UR expert, is a very skilled player and I don't believe that he made any glaring play errors.
In this match up (which I would expect to be similar to many of the other TNN match ups), we have to apply pressure while prioritizing the attack on their mana base. So on the play an early Delver is great. However Stifling their fetches is also great. You want to keep them off of 3-4 mana. You want to keep you
Dazes live.
Daze and FoW are our only real trump cards to TNN and
Daze can be easily played around/through with counter magic. In my testing games, my opponent managed to stick TNN a few times, however this does not end the game. If you have a transformed Delver, you can keep crashing through. If you have 2 or more ground guys, you can attack through, sometime losing a Goose. In our games, the TNN almost always had to hang back an hold a Goyf from killing him which led to draw-go type turns. I think this typically favored RUG.
For the post board games, +1 REB, +1
Pyroblast, +2
Flusterstorm; -4
Spell Pierce. The REB and
Pyroblast give to hard counters to the TNN.
Flusterstorms are just better counter spells when fighting these counter wars.
So I would have to agree with the previous comments. You need to attack their mana base and clock them. Post board 2-3 REB effects are probably where you want to be.
Flusterstorms can also help ensure you win the permission wars. I like
Ancient Grudge right now as well for the :w: build with the SFM package. TNN is not all that scary when it isn't holding a Jitte or a Sword of X and Y. Hope this helps!
How would you board against UWR Delver and the mirror? Otp and Otd?
http://mtgdecks.net/decks/view/60971
I have headaches from perfect boarding Plans :rolleyes:
Against uwr i want to be prepared against TNN, RIP and SFM.
So I wanna board in 2 grudge 2 REB 1 Pyroblast (maybe 2 Flusterstorm too but pierce counters RIP), but what exactly should i board out? If I board out 4 Daze 4 FoW Im very soft to TNN, Snare counters SFM, Jitte and RIP, Stifle is great against his fetches and wastes???
Maybe just 4 FoW? Or the 2 pierce and 1 daze 1 fow? Im not really sure...
Would be great if you can help me here
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manipulato
How would you board against UWR Delver and the mirror? Otp and Otd?
http://mtgdecks.net/decks/view/60971
I have headaches from perfect boarding Plans :rolleyes:
Against uwr i want to be prepared against TNN, RIP and SFM.
So I wanna board in 2 grudge 2 REB 1 Pyroblast (maybe 2 Flusterstorm too but pierce counters RIP), but what exactly should i board out? If I board out 4 Daze 4 FoW Im very soft to TNN, Snare counters SFM, Jitte and RIP, Stifle is great against his fetches and wastes???
Maybe just 4 FoW? Or the 2 pierce and 1 daze 1 fow? Im not really sure...
Would be great if you can help me here
You may side out Forked Bolts. They don't kill TNN and you got Grudge and Snare for SFM searches. Other than that... idk. I'm also quite lost in this, normally we take out counterspells and bring in answers, but TNN changed this.
Maybe you may just take TNN answers, meaning cut the Bolts - what do you have them for, SFM? - and bring in things that stop TNN (counterspells) or that stop TNN from growin' big (anti-equipment cards) and those that stop them from shrinking your dudes (anti.RiP cards). You will overwhelm any numbers of SF or 1/1 tokens, so you don't need removal.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Manipulato
How would you board against UWR Delver and the mirror? Otp and Otd?
http://mtgdecks.net/decks/view/60971
I have headaches from perfect boarding Plans :rolleyes:
Against uwr i want to be prepared against TNN, RIP and SFM.
So I wanna board in 2 grudge 2 REB 1 Pyroblast (maybe 2 Flusterstorm too but pierce counters RIP), but what exactly should i board out? If I board out 4 Daze 4 FoW Im very soft to TNN, Snare counters SFM, Jitte and RIP, Stifle is great against his fetches and wastes???
Maybe just 4 FoW? Or the 2 pierce and 1 daze 1 fow? Im not really sure...
Would be great if you can help me here
I think I would begin with Forked Bolt. From there it is kind of difficult. I think there are valid arguements to cut Lightning Bolts, Spell Snares, and Spell Pierces. The counter package you run depends on how you want to shape the game. If you want to counter RIP and SFM outright, then keeping Snares is good. If you want to win counter wars, Spell Pierce is better. Stifle has a lot of flexibility in the match up... hindering their mana development, keeping your lands around, SFM, Jitte counters.... etc. I think it is good when it is good but rapidly loses value becoming FoW fodder. So maybe Stifle is the card to shave. All in all it depends how you want to play the game. Hope this helps!
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Went 6-3 at SCG Vegas (Started 5-0 :( ) and some of you may have even seen my awesome punt on camera round 9 v. Elves! Will post a more detailed report later maybe but here is my list:
Creatures (12)
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemesis
Lands (18)
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Spells (30)
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
1 Forked Bolt
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Spell Pierce
4 Stifle
1 Spell Snare
1 Reality Ripple
4 Ponder
Sideboard
1 Spell Pierce
1 Spell Snare
1 Gilded Drake
2 Divert
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Flusterstorm
2 Rough //Tumble
-Cheers-
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
What was reality ripple for?
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monovfox
What was reality ripple for?
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/fcdynv-oau4/hqdefault.jpg
Although your sideboard seems very flexible, I'm not sure if the lots of one ofs is a good approach. I dislike to ponder and ponder and ponder again and again to finally find the card when it's too late.
Why no Submerge and Sulfur Elemental?
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
monovfox
What was reality ripple for?
Batterskull I'm guessing, and random tempo plays?
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bed Decks Palyer
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/fcdynv-oau4/hqdefault.jpg
Although your sideboard seems very flexible, I'm not sure if the lots of one ofs is a good approach. I dislike to ponder and ponder and ponder again and again to finally find the card when it's too late.
Why no Submerge and Sulfur Elemental?
The sideboard was excellent for me all day with the exception of gilded drake (and that was just because I dodged sneak and show).
My analysis of the format was that there was an overall reduction in RUG in the metagame and so submerge was not as vital as it has been in the past. I think my overall statement was true but the few RUG decks that were there all rose to the top...so when I didn't have submerge and LFTL for the mirror I was at a disadvantage.
I highly dislike playing sulfur elemental and rough//tumble in the same deck.
As stated reality ripple was for batterskull and for making my dudes dodge removal. It worked well at both and you will notice I lost to 0 TNN decks.
R1 UW Blade (Batterman, Daniel) 2-0
R2 UWB Esperblade (Sardinas, Oscar) 2-0
R3 4 C Cascade (Rembert, Isaac) 2-1
R4 UWB Esperblade (Wijaya, Vidianto) 2-0
R5 Elves (Harduvel, John) 2-1
R6 RUG (Sidher, Ricky) 1-2
R7 UWR (Paglia, Vincent) 2-0
R8 DNT (Logan, Colin) 1-2
R9 Elves (Yu, Jarvis K) 1-2
-Cheers-
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Sulfur elemental is definitely needed, since D&T just wrecks this deck and, sometimes, you can't dig up a Rough in time. Plus, split second makes Mom cry.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
Sulfur elemental is definitely needed, since D&T just wrecks this deck and, sometimes, you can't dig up a Rough in time. Plus, split second makes Mom cry.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
Hi, I didn't get what do you mean with Split second makes Mom cry? Which situations are you refering to?
Thanks :)
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
Sulfur elemental is definitely needed, since D&T just wrecks this deck and, sometimes, you can't dig up a Rough in time. Plus, split second makes Mom cry.
Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk
Sulfur elemental is good no doubt...your reasoning between digging for sulfur elemental or Rough//Tumble is bizarre at best since Rough//Tumble is arguably better once you do dig for it since it deals with the x/2's where sulfur elemental doesn't. The only downside to Rough//Tumble is Thalia (but then it costs the same as sulfur elemental) and it doesn't hit their fliers, which is a much bigger deal now that they play Serra Avenger again but I don't think giving them a 4/2 vigilance flier is going to do you any good.
Also split second is irrelevant against DNT 100% of the time. Flash though is pretty good.
All in all there is way more elves in the field than DNT and you would rather be all in on Rough//Tumble than a 1 of that is only good in one matchup.
Edit - If there was more Lingering souls in the format then I think I could justify running Sulfur Elemental again. Or if you play in a meta infested with Mom.
-Cheers-
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Example: you have bolt and sulfur in hand. They have Thalia, Mom and avenger. Eot, flash in sulfur, bolt avenger. It works as a combat trick as well, if you are attacking you can flash in elemental to force them into a bind.
Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Barbed Blightning
Example: you have bolt and sulfur in hand. They have Thalia, Mom and avenger. Eot, flash in sulfur, bolt avenger. It works as a combat trick as well, if you are attacking you can flash in elemental to force them into a bind.
Sent from my mobile phone; please ignore spelling errors or grammatical laziness.
Ahh yes, I see! I thought you meant something like throwing bolt in response to Sulfur so I couldn't get countered, but that wouldn't work. Ok, solved! :)
To contribute to the discussion, I run both Rough (x2) and Sulfur (x1) in my SB. I hate 3-drops but if it's only 1 of 60 it's not so terrible. However I have already experienced how annoying Serra's Avenger are for our usual hate. I would tell you to save bolts/counters for them, as apart from Battersull is normally the only card out of Rough/Sulfur reach.
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Re: [DTB] Canadian Thresh (a.k.a. RUG Tempo, Tempo Thresh)
Well, all these things depend on meta. As DnT makes a good portion of decks in our lgs, I definitely will play 2+2 Rough and SE for some time on.
Part of what makes SE appealing is the flash and split second. They can't respond with MoR (to give some of the survivor necessary protection) and they can't return Thalia to hand, Vial in some dude, etc. What annoys me on Rough is that we can't time it as easy as SE, it's not a threat (though crappy and StP-able) and they can respond to it with any number of fast effects, say "in resp. I return Thalia to hand with Karakas, tap MoR to give her pro:red, move +1/+1 from Jitte to Mirran Crusader making him 3/3 and Vial in Flickerwisp to flicker SFM to save her and EOT find Batterskull. Rough resolves. Kill your Mongoose, please."
I play both. I decided I won't lose to 2/2 dudes for 2 mana.
