Thank you! What's a way to budgetize the deck? This is only because I only intend to play in small, FNM-like tournaments, so this doesn't need to be at the upmost competitive state.
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Thank you! What's a way to budgetize the deck? This is only because I only intend to play in small, FNM-like tournaments, so this doesn't need to be at the upmost competitive state.
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Enchantress is already fairly budget by legacy standards, but I suppose there are a few things that you can do to make the deck cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
Karakas is an easy cut if it's not in the budget, as is the 4th serra's sanctum (replace it with a nykthos, shrine to Nyx). Fetches can be replaced by basics, although this weakens mirri's guile somewhat. Duals can be replaced with shocks without hurting the deck too badly.
If you cut down on the number of green fetches I would recommend considering a few suppression fields.
I will run the full st of Windswept Heaths. The issue is that I'm a teenager with zero access to a job but I hate Standard and already play Modern. That's why I asked about the Card Kingdom list: it's super cheap!
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I'm new to the deck as well. Would be some suggestions to update the sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dingo
My most recent decklist looks something like...Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanthos
4 argothian enchantress
4 enchantress’s presence
4 green suns zenith
1 emrakul
1 sigil of the empty throne
2 rest in peace
1 helm of obedience
1 exploration
4 wild growth
4 utopia sprawl
4 elephant grass
3 solitary confinement
2 suppression field
1 banishing light
2 mirri’s guile
2 sterling grove
1 dryad arbor
1 bayou
8 forest
1 karakas
1 plains
4 windswept heath
3 serra’s sanctum
1 savannah
SB
4 leyline of sanctity
1 enlightened tutor
1 rest in peace
1 suppression field
1 humility
2 journey to nowhere
1 oblivion ring
1 gaddock teeg
1 reclamation sage
1 dread of night
1 doomwake giant
This is what I plan on playing at SCG Worcester. some of the choices look like odd half measures, such as suppression field alongside helm combo, but I actually think it's just fine. I really want suppression field due to lands running rampant locally, and I've found suppression field to be one of the best cards for that MU, with plenty of utility vs other popular decks in particular miracles, DnT, and shardless (sometimes). I also decided to run the RiP/helm combo once again because lands is popular, and RiP is just fine vs goyf and DRS decks as well as random GY based strategies.
I like having access to 3 solitary confinement since I almost always play burn at least once in larger tournaments, and eldrazi have a very hard time beating that card.
And I also like having access to a 3rd win con thus the sigil of the empty throne. It's probably the weakest of the win cons in the deck, but it's the easiest to get working and you can tutor it with sterling grove.
Regarding only running 2 mirri's guile, since I only have 4 fetches guile loses some potency.
Regarding the sideboard...
I like the reclamation sage for blowing up the chalices and counterbalances which seem to be running rampant.
Gaddock Teeg is a zenith-able card vs storm and miracles postboard that demands an answer or else your opponent basically is locked out (not quite true for monastery miracles).
Humility is good vs SnT and hatebear style decks such as DnT and maverick, and also very good vs 4-color loam and elves.
I run 3 copies of suppression field in the 75 and post board vs lands, miracles, DnT, and most blade style decks you want all 3 copies of suppression field.
You want the 3 RiPs vs lands, storm, dredge, RUG delver and shardless BUG.
the 4 leyline of sanctity are for burn, storm, and decks that are going over the top with discard effects. It's decent against Liliana since it stops her -2 and ultimate which can wreck us, although I wouldn't bring leylines in if that's the only card we need to stop.
I play a single bayou maindeck to cast doomwake and dread of night in the SB vs DnT and decks that are playing disruptive creatures.
The 2 journey to nowhere are good vs DnT, 4 color loam, maverick, show and tell, and eldrazi
The singleton O ring is good vs a huge variety of decks with random permanents that need removing.
Other possibilities include replenish, pithing needle, aegis of the gods, sphere of safety, engineered plague, nevermore, swords to plowshares. I'm sure there are others that I'm not thinking of.
If you have any more questions I'd be happy to answer them.
Dingos list is a fairly solid starting point. Stock starting lists are generally:
4 Argothian Enchantress
4 Envhantress presence
4 Wild Growth
4 Utopia Sprawl
2-4 Green Sun Zenith
2-3 Solitary Confinement
4-8 Green Fetches
4-12 Basics
1-3 Duals (all green generally)
2-4 Serras Sanctum
From there you can play a bunch of different win conditions. RIp helm is nice but with RIP you lose Replenish. Emrakul is very good because it's uncountable. Sigil is solid as well. Just varies a bit at that point depending on your meta
Dumb question, but what utility does Replenish offer? I can't imagine people mainboard enchantment removal. Sideboard right?
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Replenish lets you grind through large amounts of discard and counter magic. It really shines against decks like shardless, miracles, abrupt decay decks, and pernicious deed. There are even lines where you can throw your one mana enchantments into the maw of a chalice at one then replenish them back into play. It's worth noting that eidolon of blossoms and doomwake giant trigger whenever an enchantment enters the battlefield rather than on cast like the other enchantress effects, so replenish is a pretty nutty card with those 2 in the GY or on the battlefield. Replenish also lets you use your sterling groves as tutors very liberally.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
It's not mb enchantment removal generally its Abrupt Decay, Hymn, Thoughtseize mb that nabs your needed enchantment. Post board there's Council's Judgment, Reverent Silence and others. Plus Chalice on {1} sucks but Replenish at 4 gets them all back.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
So how many should I run?
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Replenish doesn't do much against councils judgment, and usually the decks with reverent silence are burning wish decks that kill us the turn they cast it. But yes I agree in general that it undoes the work that abrupt decay, force of will, chalice of the void, counterbalance, hymn and thoughtseize do, while additionally recurring our own elephant grass, solitary confinement, and sacrificed sterling grove.Quote:
Originally Posted by harbingerofthevoid
I would run no more than 2 replenish. While strong, it can be an exceptionally awkward card at times, especially with multiples in hand.
Enchantment (28)
1x Banishing Light
4x Elephant Grass
4x Enchantress's Presence
1x Exploration
2x Mirri's Guile
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sigil of the Empty Throne
3x Solitary Confinement
2x Sterling Grove
4x Utopia Sprawl
4x Wild Growth
Land (20)
1x Dryad Arbor
10x Forest
1x Plains
3x Serra's Sanctum
1x Temple Garden
4x Windswept Heath
Creature (5)
4x Argothian Enchantress
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Instant (2)
2x Swords to Plowshares
Sorcery (4)
4x Green Sun's Zenith
Artifact (1)
1x Helm of Obedience
Here's what I'm starting with. It is very similar to dingo's but with a couple meta tweaks. Thoughts?
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Pretty solid list. Not a fan of the STP in the main as they're kind of narrow in their use in this deck since the only dudes you really may care about are hate bears that are often not in the main board. I'd rather have like an e tutor and maybe a doomwake giant (another win condition and makes the death and taxes match up almost a bye)Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
I agree with megadeus that stp is better as a SB slot. One of the great things about enchantress is the lack of meaningful interaction that other decks have with us. We simply don't care about most creatures, unless you are seeing things like thalia, spirit of the labyrinth and ethersworn canonist in game 1 on a regular basis. Then swords may be warranted.Quote:
Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack
If the removal is for eldrazi (you said this is popular locally) then I recommend journey to nowhere since it dodges chalice at 1 and doesn't get countered by reality smasher if you don't have a card to discard. Or maybe additional O ring effects if you value the versatility of removing a chalice or thorn of amethyst.
Still, I prefer broad stroke answers in enchantress, so doomwake giant appeals to me.
I recently tried reclamation sage as a maindeck answer to a variety of problematic permanents, notably chalice OTV, and counterbalance. But it also hits spirit and canonist, it's on color and you have 5 virtual copies because of zenith. I don't necessarily recommend rec sage since against *most* decks our best plan is to ignore out opponent and execute our own plan as fast as possible.
Hope this helps.
There's an Enchantress list Piloted by Jeremy Edwards that took 1st place on a 50 man Legacy event.
The 2nd place through 8 are:
(2nd) Shardless Bug, (3rd) 12-Post, (4th) UR Painter, (5th) Death and Taxes, (6th) Grixis Pyromancer, (7th) Nic Fit, (8th) UW Tezzeret
LANDS (20)
11 Forest
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
Acceleration (8)
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
Engine (13)
4 Enchantress's Presence
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
4 Green Sun's Zenith
Library Manipulation (3)
3 Sensei's Divining Top
Removal and Misc (7)
1 Replenish
1 Banishing Light
1 Seal of Primordium
4 Carpet of Flowers
Protection (7)
4 Solitary Confinement
3 Elephant Grass
Win Condition (2)
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
SIDEBOARD
1 Elephant Grass
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Karmic Justice
2 Krosan Grip
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Worship
I don't quite understand the main decked Sensei's Top as opposed to the Mirri's Guile.
Also wouldn't the main decked Seal of Primordium be better of as a 2nd Oblivion Ring, Banishing Light,
or even Song of the Dryads? Which could hit cards like Iona, and lands like Rishadan Port or Dark Depths.
It's definitely an odd ball list, and I think that a ton of choices are sub-optimal. As Nedleeds pointed out, Mirri's guile seems like a much better choice than top, yet this list has 3 tops in the main and 1 mirri's guile in the side. The SB is probably the strangest part of the deck with some seemingly nonsensical choices like Gaea's touch. What decks would you possibly want that in the SB for? The Garruk primal hunter and K grips are another odd choice, presumably for the miracles MU? But I've never really felt the need to deviate from our normal plan to beat miracles. And possibly the strangest card of the bunch is scavenging ooze.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore1
I would like to ask the deck designer about these seemingly strange card choices.
My issues with top
1) the mana investment matters in Enchantress where you are mana hungry and want to establish inevitability on the 4th-5th turn (3rd turn on a good draw if you play Exploration ... like I do). You rarely have mana to dick around with top especially before let's say a Miracle player can get countertop online. Or a D&T player can bring ports, thalias, horses and flickerwisps to bear on your mana.
2) I want to play Stony Silence / CoS in my board vs. miracles
3) If you are using your fetches and groves (maybe tutors and GSZs also) your Guiles will give you multiple looks and multiple guiles with fetches are still fine. You can resolve the first, see what you have, if you don't like it, you shuffle, resolve Guile 2 all for no mana
4) It's an enchantment, I want the non enchantments in enchantress to either be enchatresses, find enchantresses, or win the game (the Emrakul argument)
So I've been tuning this list, and here is where it is at today. Still weak to Fast combo, and re animator. Does not roll over at all to BGx. I think with more tuning this may be the way to build. ...less set-up, and more control over the game. There are also a lot more slots to give to our bad MUsQuote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Updated List:
4 Opalescence
4 Parallax Wave
4 Sylvan Library
4 Kruphix's Insight
2 Commune with the Gods
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
3 Replenish
1 Fertile Ground
4 Enchantress's Presence
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Oblivion Ring
4 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plains
2 Savannah
6 Forest
Sideboard:
4 Eidolon of Rhetoric
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Sphere of resistance
3 Carpet of Flowers
2 Banishing Light
...will try and stream next week.
This is pretty far away from what I would consider the "stock" enchantress variations. Maybe you could write us up a short primer, explain common play patterns, interactions and what might make this a superior version of enchantress. How dependent are you on the opalescence parallax wave interaction? How reliable is setting up the engine with fewer engine pieces total?Quote:
Originally Posted by Freggle
Interesting list, Freggle. I'd also like to hear more.
I played GW Enchantress in a side event at SCG Dallas last weekend (I've got a report up, if you're interested). I was trying out a Newlamog, which I was happy with. It got me thinking: does it make sense to have 1-2 Ulamogs in the 75 to improve the Miracles matchup? Ramping to 10 is pretty reasonable, and consider the outcomes of casting it:
- It gets countered, but exiles stuff like Counterbalance, Jace, or Mentor. That can buy you time to win.
- It resolves, exiles some stuff, and then dies. However, killing it will probably either eat a Council's Judgment, gain you 10 life off StP (thereby buying you time), or bait a Terminus (which could clear the board of a threatening Mentor).
- It resolves, exiles stuff, and they can't answer it. Now you have a 2-turn clock.
I'd be interested in people's thoughts. I just figured playing a little bit more like 12-Post seems smart against them.