[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

Yeah ... even more anti-storm hatebears!

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At least costs RR....

Maybe I'll try out that pyromancer's acension list so I can play bolts main to better fight off hatebears.

Bolts+pyromancer ascension main in TES ?
I must be in the wrong thread i guess


- Team RUG-STAR Berlin -

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

And there our points of view differ:

1) I don't value T1 discard against D&T too high because of their hatebear density. I prefer to mull into a T 1/2 Combo instead

Maybe, but if you dont have a T1 or T2 win you'll die and on 1st games they do not have so high hatebear density, for me at least a T1 discard has been the unique way to win sometimes these match ups, even C.Therapy is high value in here. it is just to get more chances to win this match up.

2) If I cast discard and they hide FoW, I'm free to combo, no?

Sure, but not if you start and on 1st turn.

3) against Hymn, I prefer dropping my mana and float biz on the top of my deck with BS/Ponder which are perfectly fine being cast off volcanic

Ok I prefer hit his potential Hymn or FoW, I referred to Team America variants minly

4) pondering into a black source can fail, but that rises the question if a hand with volcanic + ponder + black cards was a keeper from the start. Sure, shit happens.
Yeah! shit happens

5) i already mentioned combo decks as exceptions
No, you mentioned Combo mirror, I'll prefer to handle: Reanimator and S&T variants., that why 1st turn U.Sea into discard seems so important.

6) while discarding counterbalance is fine, pyroblasting it off a volcanic does basically the same game 2 and you won't waste a thoughtseize t1 in game 1 just to see your opponents hand only

7-8 discard effects vs 2 pyrosblast from Side does not worth it I think, even this scenario will occur in 2nd and 3rd match ups, I want to handle 1st games also. Also Miracles does not play Wasteland

mmm, definately I think I'll try the 3-1 Split for a while... playing 2 duress 1 T.Seize main and 1 IoK, 1T.Seize side instead of the 1 Duress side... although I'm quite satisfied with t he 4 moxen configuration.... and Of course NO A.Decay main

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EDIT: I meant 12 lands 3 C.Moxen. :)


Apart:
a T1 Discard is great to know how to develop your game plan, unless there is no more mana available because of your unique land beeing destroyed...

Apart_2:
@Royce, Bahamut:
3-1 Split or 2-2 Split?

Hi Bryant I tested this deck for the first time on mtgo the past 2 days I love it. I play the list in your op with a trop in the SB over a xantid swarm was this a ok cut? If I wanted to play a 4th silence out if my SB what would you cut or better from your op what SB slots are open to being changed.

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Originally Posted by Moxnix

Hi Bryant I tested this deck for the first time on mtgo the past 2 days I love it. I play the list in your op with a trop in the SB over a xantid swarm was this a ok cut? If I wanted to play a 4th silence out if my SB what would you cut or better from your op what SB slots are open to being changed.

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I'm no longer on that list. I'll update it right now.

Thank you so much. If you don't mind would you update your SB strategy section when you get a chance as if now im alt tabbing on mtgo reading it and sbing. Also is this a meta change could you explain why you like seize and duress over silence I think I can guess but i would much rather know what you think.

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Originally Posted by Moxnix

Thank you so much. If you don't mind would you update your SB strategy section when you get a chance as if now im alt tabbing on mtgo reading it and sbing. Also is this a meta change could you explain why you like seize and duress over silence I think I can guess but i would much rather know what you think.

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The last 20 pages of the thread are all about it the change.

I don't have time right now to update (Maybe in a few weeks), it's all really the same concepts. This deck isn't very difficult to SB with.

Ok thank you I will check it out I had mostly just read your OP

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Originally Posted by Pelikanudo

Apart:
a T1 Discard is great to know how to develop your game plan, unless there is no more mana available because of your unique land beeing destroyed...

Apart_2:
@Royce, Bahamut:
3-1 Split or 2-2 Split?

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2-2. Any hand that has 2+ cantrips you want to fetch a turn 1 Volc, cantrip with the mana, cantrip again t2, then use a second land for discard (ideally). If they waste your Volc, you want another one. Basically the difference is that before we'd almost always fetch a t1 USea, now it's much better to fetch a Volc and getting cut off red is much less of an issue.

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Originally Posted by Royce Walter

2-2. Any hand that has 2+ cantrips you want to fetch a turn 1 Volc, cantrip with the mana, cantrip again t2, then use a second land for discard (ideally). If they waste your Volc, you want another one. Basically the difference is that before we'd almost always fetch a t1 USea, now it's much better to fetch a Volc and getting cut off red is much less of an issue.

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maybe I miss something, but for this scenario, why do you prefer to fetch for volcanic instead U.Sea?

If you want turn 2 to chain cantrip into discard you need Volc & Sea or Sea & Sea.. which do you prefer in case you want to combo of turn 3 with no other land?

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Originally Posted by Holly

If you want turn 2 to chain cantrip into discard you need Volc & Sea or Sea & Sea.. which do you prefer in case you want to combo of turn 3 with no other land?

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And the question whether Pelikanudo was missing something has been answered. :cool:

I could swear, I talked about fetching Volcanic first, to NOT flagwaving signalize your opponent that you're playing combo, on the last page.

Why else do you think we are playing Misty Rainforest and Scalding Tarn other than faking to be a Tempo deck? Why should anyone tap out for SFM and crap if they see Polluted Delta into U.Sea?

I'm not seeing how this deck is better than ANT variants right now. The metagame seems very hostile towards it. At what point does stubbornness kick in as a reason people play this deck over other combo decks? It seems to have a rabid cult following of people who Japanese foil it out and whatnot, and that can't be helpful in being open-minded to changes.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry btw, just trying to start an open and honest discussion.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I'm not seeing how this deck is better than ANT variants right now. The metagame seems very hostile towards it. At what point does stubbornness kick in as a reason people play this deck over other combo decks? It seems to have a rabid cult following of people who Japanese foil it out and whatnot, and that can't be helpful in being open-minded to changes.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry btw, just trying to start an open and honest discussion.

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This deck's speed and versatility makes it a comparable choice to ANT. ANT, being the slower and more linear deck, is more vulnerable to hate because an opponent has more time to go ahead and play it and ANT has fewer lines to approach victory. I'd say the metagame is simply hostile to Storm in general right now, not TES in particular.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I'm not seeing how this deck is better than ANT variants right now. The metagame seems very hostile towards it. At what point does stubbornness kick in as a reason people play this deck over other combo decks? It seems to have a rabid cult following of people who Japanese foil it out and whatnot, and that can't be helpful in being open-minded to changes.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry btw, just trying to start an open and honest discussion.

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It's easier to hate out the main storm engine of ANT versus TES, but in general the metagame isn't very favorable to either. TES's speed is also a big advantage over it's combo-sibling.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I'm not seeing how this deck is better than ANT variants right now. The metagame seems very hostile towards it. At what point does stubbornness kick in as a reason people play this deck over other combo decks? It seems to have a rabid cult following of people who Japanese foil it out and whatnot, and that can't be helpful in being open-minded to changes.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry btw, just trying to start an open and honest discussion.

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Aha, how was that not a shot at me? Clearly, you haven't seen my collection - I don't base anything off of card availability. It's alright kid, live off your top 8 high, but ANT isn't in any better of a position than TES. But in the mean time, enjoy that full turn extra you need to combo against Death and Taxes.

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Originally Posted by davelin

It's easier to hate out the main storm engine of ANT versus TES, but in general the metagame isn't very favorable to either. TES's speed is also a big advantage over it's combo-sibling.

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I feel like maindeckable cards such as Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, and Wasteland are all much better against TES than ANT. The only plus I'd give TES in this metagame is that SB RIPs don't really do anything against it. ANT is much better against Delver decks which seem to be at the top tables. I've played both decks quite a bit, and I really think basic lands + lots of discard are where you want to be.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I feel like maindeckable cards such as Thoughtseize, Hymn to Tourach, and Wasteland are all much better against TES than ANT. The only plus I'd give TES in this metagame is that SB RIPs don't really do anything against it. ANT is much better against Delver decks which seem to be at the top tables. I've played both decks quite a bit, and I really think basic lands + lots of discard are where you want to be.

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its ironic you say that players here are resistant to change, and then you recommend lots of discard... which this deck has switched to recently. I'd ask if you read the thread lately, but its even reflected in the OP, at least the new decklist, that is.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

I'm not seeing how this deck is better than ANT variants right now. The metagame seems very hostile towards it. At what point does stubbornness kick in as a reason people play this deck over other combo decks? It seems to have a rabid cult following of people who Japanese foil it out and whatnot, and that can't be helpful in being open-minded to changes.

I'm not trying to make anyone angry btw, just trying to start an open and honest discussion.

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The metagame is hostile to storm in general and a reason the manabase and protection suit changed. You asked for open-minded changes ... and missed them happening.

The advantages of ANT to overpower tempo- & taxing-counters with Cabal Ritual are still the same as the problems of that deck to get a kill going once the graveyard is hated out or other countermeasures kick in because ANT is pretty much limited to a playline involving thresholded Cabal Rituals and only 4 Tutors while being at least a turn slower than TES because of that.

What about questioning the worth of Cabal Ritual now that people rather play discard like Thoughtseize or Hymn than Pierce, which CR was able to overpower in the past or noticing that Grafdiggers Cage, Surgical Extraction and RIP are everywhere? TES can be too fast for Hymn and hatebears while shitting on graveyard-hate (and now even more on SFM). I don't see why this meta is any more hostile to TES than ANT.