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Older styled player here, getting back in MTG and have an old school Elf deck. I'm revamping it to bring it up to date, but was wondering about Ugin being in Elves, I understand it being slower then typical elves, but would it be considered for a S/B versus like Miracles or something? Just curious on the feedback.
If you want a Planeswalker mana-sink against Miracles, Garruk, Primal Hunter is probably the card you're looking for. I had real issues getting to 5 mana realiably (as in: post the first Terminus) against Miracles so stuff like Sylvan Library is much more recommended.
I'm surprized Elves is not in the Decks to Beat thread anymore. Isn't it a top tier deck still?
I've actually thought of Garruk Relentless as one of the best green Planeswalkers for Legacy. His tokens aren't as big, but he can serve as removal when needed and his flip side's tutor effect or Overrun ultimate can both win the game. Primal Hunter's card draw likely won't do much in this deck either - unless you've already got one of the big NO targets (in which case, why haven't you won?) then you're only able to draw one or two cards, maybe three if you made a Beast token first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Julian23
The planeswalkers don't get me going. They cost a lot of mana, don't necessarily further your gameplan and don't win you the game on the spot whilst costing just as much mana (or even more) than a NO.
BumpQuote:
Originally Posted by Brentane
Have you seen the decks in the DTB section/do you know how those MU's are for Elves..? Do remember the last update of that section was when TC was still legal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentane
Wait for the next update and then ask again, mkay?
Ok...? But I do not understand what in the TC-meta put it down from a "Deck to Beat" in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Queue another Lemnear gangsta-rap. Feed dat troll!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentane
What would you say I need help with? In my (admittedly limited) experience, I'm weak against Chalice/Trinisphere as well as different flavors of Reanimator, so those hate cards have seemed appropriate so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shagstaman
I'm sorry? I'm serious. I didn't verse any decks with TC in my meta while TC was legal. if you mean more burn spells, Wirewood Symbiote would be good enough to help against that isn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Not sure if this is Lemnear troll worthy. Given that the TC meta was only really around for a few months, people who weren't plugged directly into the source or religiously following tournament coverage might legitimately not now. I'm not saying we don't need another Lemnear rap. I feel like we should provoke one of those gems at least once a month, but I feel like this is a reasonable question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
To answer that question, basically everyone was running sweepers to kill pyromancer tokens, as well as forked bolts main to kill random delvers/pyromancers. BUG and Shardless got pushed out of the meta, as did Death and Taxes. On top of that, the easiest way to beat U/R Delver was to play superfast combo (Sneak & Show, Omnitell, Painter, etc.). Savy?
Re. Snickelfritz: The problem here is that by including so many ooze's/reclamation sages you're heavily diluting the combo elements of your deck when you side them in (presumably along with Abrupt Decay, which answers both trinisphere and chalice). At this point, you've slowed yourself down so much and made your Glimpse chains so awkward that you will randomly lose games you should have comboed out in. While having a Decay on a stick (R. Sage) seems good, that 3 casting cost screws you up a lot. Most of the time it's better to just have the instant speed 2 cost removal.
In my experience, you're better off with an extra Pithing Needle in there versus B/G/x, Miracles, and Stone-forge decks. Besides, Chalice/Trinisphere will drop out of the meta, as it was mainly meant to prey on U/R and cantrip decks.
Finally, I would strongly recommend watching Julian's videos if you're worried about Reanimator. Scavenging Ooze in hand won't really stop a turn 2 reanimation, but you can easily race everything but Elesh Norn. I think he has one where he beats a turn 2 Griselbrand without comboing out, even. As for Elesh, Ooze won't help once it hits the field anyway.
Reclamation sage and ooze are great because they are GSZ targets, so one is enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickelfritz
If you want more grave-hate, it is not a card you want in your library to GSZ for (you already have DRS/Ooze), but a card which is powerful in your hands. Here surgical is better, it comes faster and is good vs other MUs as well (combo with your discards, miracle).
The same reasons make abrupt decay better than the second reclamation sage.
Another good point of ooze is that it is a very good cards even against deck which does not rely a lot on graveyard, like burn, BUG, RUG, UR, even miracle ... and it is not troublesome for your combo (not an elf, but a 2 mana creature) so it is really easily a maindeck card.
He was talking about close to 40% of the metagame playing URx with Electrickery, Forked Bolt and shit just to refuel the hand with the same stuff after each Treasure Cruise. Them you have Miracles as a top deck and plenty of combo decks returning to prey on these UR Delver decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentane
Neither of this matchups is good for Elves and ergo it dropped out of the DtB section until the next update I suspect when at least the burn tunes down. I tune in if I feel the discussion goes down to "why bother with Elves if it's not a DtB", Echelon ;)
http://blog.songtrust.com/wp-content...6803318261.jpg
Edit:
I'm not sure I'm fine seeing my username next to the word "troll" outside the B&R thread, as the raps are mainly a thing to give my 0.02$ on very questionable Topics (that's why I pick the over-the-top style of adressing) in a way to entertain you guys. It's not about picking on someone. It's a Roasting everyone should have fun with as it's never meant to insult. Just felt like have to mention that once more. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IMarques
I had to smile reading the part about provoking, but unless I really dig a topic I have no idea how to top "ogre tea" lol. As said before, I considered the question why Elves dropped out of the DtB section a valid one.
I do not think Elves will be back in the next update, likely the one after though. That is assuming that the next update is not skipped on account of the changing and volatile meta.
Thinking about coming home. I miss the forest. Will need to strip some of the bark though I know, I will be rough around the edges.
Ahw man, so close! Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
I considered "Why did Elves drop out of DTB?" too obvious to merrit further questions.
Basically yes, but then I had to start with two skinny elves laid down by a 0.50$ Investment (that Forked Bolt is) and draw parallels to the anorectic Olsen Twins ... and ... I guess I need to stop right hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Well... It IS friday... So indulge! Surrender to the dark side! Though basically you're calling our elves the private dancers who'll dance for money and for whom any old song will do. Meh, I dig it. Go for it!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Weekend is for friends and my GF, gentlemen. I'm writing raps only weekdays in the subway. Provoke me Tuesday morning ;PQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
It's true. Ogre tea was a mic-drop moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
As an aside, I can attest to the power of just being able to GSZ a Scavenging Ooze versus burn. I explicitly lost a game to Standstill in my last tournament, because I forgot to side in Ooze. Almost won anyway, but was one mana short of being able to pull in WRP (which is amazing against manlands and when your opponent has no spot removal). Had Ooze been in the deck, I would have definitely taken that one by shear dint of being able to play the ooze and eat my yard.