[DTB] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by Endril

@Nelis - I couldn't run a deck with less than 4 warchiefs, but that's the most solid mana base I've seen for goblins.

@Topic - My maindeck answer to zoo is my removal. I have 2 scg, 1 stingscourger, 1 sharpshooter, 3 lightning bolt, 3 gempalm, and 4 weirding. Then I have 3 pyrokinesis and 2 perish in the board. Sharpshooter has won me games, so I at least want it in the board. Stingscourger I'm still divided on, but I hear more people telling me to keep it in than take it out and I see the wisdom in it. I've been told to remove lightning bolts, but it's been a better fit for my MU's than the cards I would run it its place. Any more thoughts on those choices? I'm specifically wondering if it's worth taking out removal to run war marshal. I haven't considered it much before now because it doesn't actually take creatures off the board and there's other MU's where removal seems more important.

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I also run r/b list with bolts and I love them. Zoo has been on the rise and with bolts in zoo doesn't scare Me what so ever. I play 3 bolts, 3 wierding, 1 stingscourger, 1 gempalm and I have been able to slow zoo enough too swarm turns 4 and up. As far as the stingscourger goes I feel that one should be played because it's "tutorable" and is good vialed in. As I stated earlier in the thread I play 3 perish and 3 pyrokinesis and some think that's it overkill but perish is amazing right now and I never board kinesis vs zoo because it's really not that good. Kinesis is there strictly for the mirror and merfolk.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Endril

@Nelis - I couldn't run a deck with less than 4 warchiefs, but that's the most solid mana base I've seen for goblins.

@Topic - My maindeck answer to zoo is my removal. I have 2 scg, 1 stingscourger, 1 sharpshooter, 3 lightning bolt, 3 gempalm, and 4 weirding. Then I have 3 pyrokinesis and 2 perish in the board. Sharpshooter has won me games, so I at least want it in the board. Stingscourger I'm still divided on, but I hear more people telling me to keep it in than take it out and I see the wisdom in it. I've been told to remove lightning bolts, but it's been a better fit for my MU's than the cards I would run it its place. Any more thoughts on those choices? I'm specifically wondering if it's worth taking out removal to run war marshal. I haven't considered it much before now because it doesn't actually take creatures off the board and there's other MU's where removal seems more important.

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I also run r/b list with bolts and I love them. Zoo has been on the rise and with bolts in zoo doesn't scare Me what so ever. I play 3 bolts, 3 wierding, 1 stingscourger, 1 gempalm and I have been able to slow zoo enough too swarm turns 4 and up. As far as the stingscourger goes I feel that one should be played because it's "tutorable" and is good vialed in. As I stated earlier in the thread I play 3 perish and 3 pyrokinesis and some think that's it overkill but perish is amazing right now and I never board kinesis vs zoo because it's really not that good. Kinesis is there strictly for the mirror and merfolk.

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Originally Posted by danielcrocker

I also run r/b list with bolts and I love them. Zoo has been on the rise and with bolts in zoo doesn't scare Me what so ever. I play 3 bolts, 3 wierding, 1 stingscourger, 1 gempalm and I have been able to slow zoo enough too swarm turns 4 and up. As far as the stingscourger goes I feel that one should be played because it's "tutorable" and is good vialed in.

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This is pretty much exactly my thoughts. I really dislike running more than one stingscourger, its great to be able to tutor it for those special situations but thats it imo. Bolts really help the zoo matchup, keeping the damage low in the beginning turns is key and bolt lets you stop all their turn one threats.

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Originally Posted by Endril

@Nelis - I couldn't run a deck with less than 4 warchiefs, but that's the most solid mana base I've seen for goblins.

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The idea behind running 2 Warchiefs and 4 Chieftains was that a turn 2 War Marshal is best followed by a turn 3 Chieftain. And I realized that Warchief wasn't really needed until midgame so that's why I went for that configuration. I didn't feel like cutting another goblin for a third Warchief. Maybe a 3/3 split between Warchief and Chieftain could work too.

Yeah, I don't feel like screwing around with the manabase by running less lands or strange cip lands. I don't want to be screwed by too little mountains.

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

Is your list mono-red or RB?

While we're at it, would you like to share your list?

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4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
15 Mountain

4 AEther Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander

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Originally Posted by lotriderm

4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
15 Mountain

4 AEther Vial

4 Goblin Lackey
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Matron
4 Gempalm Incinerator
3 Stingscourger
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander

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Do you side anything against Zoo with this build?

Just got into legacy and looking to build a budget deck that I can upgrade easily

MAIN DECK

3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Pyromancer
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Skirk Prospector
2 Stingscourger
1 Wort, Boggart Auntie
Creatures [31]

4 AEther Vial
3 Warren Weirding
Spells [7]

17 Mountain
5 Swamp
Lands [22]


SIDEBOARD
2 Blood Moon
2 Perish
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Tormod's Crypt
5 ??

this a decent goblin deck? Would you drop the splash of black? Am I running too much mana?

I know I have no land destroy/duals/fetches, I might be able to barrow a couple for game day from friends but for now I'm planning my deck around not having them, and upgrading as I get the money.

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Originally Posted by Neuad

this a decent goblin deck? Would you drop the splash of black? Am I running too much mana?

I know I have no land destroy/duals/fetches, I might be able to barrow a couple for game day from friends but for now I'm planning my deck around not having them, and upgrading as I get the money.

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The deck looks really good. Only the Skirk Prospector should definitely be cut, but I see the combo with kiki-crafter-prospector, so your call actually.

If you don't have fetches/duals, don't splash a color. Go monored. Thats just too risky. And try to get a hold on Wastelands first.

err...isn't Leave No Trace and Disenchant White?

If you want to splash black, at least add Auntie's Hovel. You might, might be able to get away with 1 or 2 copies of Graven Cairns too, or you can add Sulfurous Springs.

My friend just built Rb Goblins without the Wastes/Ports and his manabase looks like:

4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Graven Cairns
3 Sulfurous Springs
1 Swamp
13 Mountain

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Originally Posted by ScatmanX

The deck looks really good. Only the Skirk Prospector should definitely be cut, but I see the combo with kiki-crafter-prospector, so your call actually.

If you don't have fetches/duals, don't splash a color. Go monored. Thats just too risky. And try to get a hold on Wastelands first.

err...isn't Leave No Trace and Disenchant White?

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Sorry, copied part of the wrong SB. In the midst of piecing together a couple decks to show friends and see what they think.

I'll see what I can do about getting fetches/duals, I ran a R/G standard deck yesterday and was able to get 4 fetches and 3 Taigas to play during the tourney so. . . if I can't I might drop black.

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Originally Posted by Exospaciac

If you want to splash black, at least add Auntie's Hovel. You might, might be able to get away with 1 or 2 copies of Graven Cairns too, or you can add Sulfurous Springs.

My friend just built Rb Goblins without the Wastes/Ports and his manabase looks like:

4 Auntie's Hovel
1 Graven Cairns
3 Sulfurous Springs
1 Swamp
13 Mountain

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I actually like that mana base, Aunties, Graven, and Sulfurous are all fairly cheap. . .hell I even have 1 of the Sulfurous laying around. Thanks alot <3

To the sb discussion against combo:

I would always run 4 chalice against combo simply because it can be dropped for 0. If I do not waste my turn 2 drop, I can win turn 3, reliably on turn 4. I would run thorn+chalice over nullrod because they do nasty against other decks as well while the nullrod shuts off my vials.

Against zoo:

I decided that zoo is an utterly lost mu. Someone over at the zoo thread said if you run into your second land until turn 12, you win for sure and I found it to be true.
My list currently does not run port though, in my experience (I did not test it very much tbh) it has been win more. You cannot shut off zoo removal or most creature drops from zoo+you cannot get creatures in yourself. It does not hurt reanimator, combo or dredge. The only mu where I found it really helpful is enchantress.

Warren Instigator has proven extremely strong for me. I wonder why so few lists run it, I think it's by far the best turn 2 drop. It won many games for me, if he is not handled he warps in matron+sgc or ringleader+something else nasty.

My side currently looks like this:
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre

@ (nameless one)

No, I usually don't bring in any cards against Zoo. Unless they have a really good draw and I keep a pretty mediocre hand, I don't lose to Zoo that often.

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Originally Posted by SpoCk0nd0pe

To the sb discussion against combo:
Against zoo:

I decided that zoo is an utterly lost mu. Someone over at the zoo thread said if you run into your second land until turn 12, you win for sure and I found it to be true.
My list currently does not run port though, in my experience (I did not test it very much tbh) it has been win more. You cannot shut off zoo removal or most creature drops from zoo+you cannot get creatures in yourself. It does not hurt reanimator, combo or dredge. The only mu where I found it really helpful is enchantress.

Warren Instigator has proven extremely strong for me. I wonder why so few lists run it, I think it's by far the best turn 2 drop. It won many games for me, if he is not handled he warps in matron+sgc or ringleader+something else nasty.

My side currently looks like this:
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre

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Why exactly is Zoo a lost matchup? From my experience it is at least 50/50, maybe even in favor of Goblins if you pack some extra removal. Wasteland+Pyrokinesis (or any other removal) can be a one-sided wrath of god. And essentially all you have to do is stay alive turns 1-3 then play out some Ringleaders to overwhelm them.
Your sideboard has too many GY hate. Run some Pyrokinesis or Perish.

The only truly terrible matchup is Tendrils imo. You have to get lucky with a hate piece and a really fast clock or even luckier when they beat themselves. Usually I am always 1 turn short to kill them before they combo me out.


Here is what I will run next tournament:

Maindeck:

Artifacts
4 Aether Vial

Creatures
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Piledriver
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
2 Mogg Fanatic
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Warren Instigator
2 Siege-gang Commander
1 Stingscourger

Tribal Sorcerys
3 Warren Weirding

Basic Lands
7 Mountain
1 Swamp

Lands
2 Auntie's Hovel
4 Badlands
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Perish
3 Pyrokinesis
1 Boartusk Liege
4 Leyline Of The Void
4 Thorn of Amethyst

Expected matchups, from most likely to least likely to face:
Zoo
Reanimator
ANT
Goblins & Fish
Bant decks of all sorts
UWx Control (CBTop, Planeswalkers, Standstill)
Black decks of all sorts /w engineered plague
Loam decks of all sorts
Dredge

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Originally Posted by lotriderm

@ (nameless one)

No, I usually don't bring in any cards against Zoo. Unless they have a really good draw and I keep a pretty mediocre hand, I don't lose to Zoo that often.

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Its funny because we almost have an identical list (Instigators for War Marshalls and a single Incinerator for Commander). There has been a rise of Zoo in my meta (5/20) from the past tournament here. I should try using War Marshalls again in favour against Instigator)

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Originally Posted by ddt15

Why exactly is Zoo a lost matchup?

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Its not exactlly lost but.....

http://deckbox.org/mtg/jitte
http://deckbox.org/mtg/tarmogoyf

And if their smart they fetch basics.

I don't know, from the few games I've played all you need to do is start up the Ringleader+Matron Engine and you'll be fine.

Ember Hauler
Creature - Goblin
:1:, Sacrifice Ember Hauler: Ember Hauler deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Flurk's crude Goblin language didn't differentiate between "I bring the flame" and "I am the flame".
2/2
Any potential? Reusable shock not terrible

Quote:

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

Its funny because we almost have an identical list (Instigators for War Marshalls and a single Incinerator for Commander). There has been a rise of Zoo in my meta (5/20) from the past tournament here. I should try using War Marshalls again in favour against Instigator)

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Since I don't run Instigators, I decreased my "bombs", so I trimmed the Siege-Gang to 1. With 4 Chieftains, War Marshalls become more of a threat too.

Try blocking with mogg war marshal and then dropping ringleaders and matrons. Their removal all fly at lackey and chiefs and their PtE power out your ringleaders. In time, you'll just swarm the cats with your little green men.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpoCk0nd0pe

To the sb discussion against combo:

I would always run 4 chalice against combo simply because it can be dropped for 0. If I do not waste my turn 2 drop, I can win turn 3, reliably on turn 4. I would run thorn+chalice over nullrod because they do nasty against other decks as well while the nullrod shuts off my vials.

Against zoo:

I decided that zoo is an utterly lost mu. Someone over at the zoo thread said if you run into your second land until turn 12, you win for sure and I found it to be true.
My list currently does not run port though, in my experience (I did not test it very much tbh) it has been win more. You cannot shut off zoo removal or most creature drops from zoo+you cannot get creatures in yourself. It does not hurt reanimator, combo or dredge. The only mu where I found it really helpful is enchantress.

Warren Instigator has proven extremely strong for me. I wonder why so few lists run it, I think it's by far the best turn 2 drop. It won many games for me, if he is not handled he warps in matron+sgc or ringleader+something else nasty.

My side currently looks like this:
SB: 3 [LRW] Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 1 [MI] Goblin Tinkerer
SB: 4 [DK] Tormod's Crypt
SB: 4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
SB: 3 [SHM] Faerie Macabre

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass

Ember Hauler
Creature - Goblin
:1:, Sacrifice Ember Hauler: Ember Hauler deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Flurk's crude Goblin language didn't differentiate between "I bring the flame" and "I am the flame".
2/2
Any potential? Reusable shock not terrible

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No potential. If combat damage still used the stack, he might be worth a look. Under M10 rules, this guy doesn't cut it.