Printable View
It really was. Was grinding a league a day with it to prep for Vegas before the ban with tons of 5-0s and had been playing it for 3 years in paper before that with tons of local top 8's in big events. It was looking like a fantastic choice for vegas. Apart from my own preferences (4 tops, all e-tutor side) it was the core shortcake list you built. By far the most fun I've ever had playing magic, thanks for all the hard work you put into coming up with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
I would agree with this sentiment as well. I've taken a break from painter for the moment until Vegas is over and I can focus on it again. Great work Jack on continuing to carry the flag.
Shortcake for life.
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Hell yea.Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Expanding on my post again after jamming some more games. I think if we are trying to play a new Shortcake and want to commit to keeping the E-tutors in the deck, we absolutely need a way to draw the top card of our library in the mid-game. This is part of the reason I know you guys are high on Pybomb, which I agree with. I'm sure there are other builds that are walker variants with multiple chandra for top card or even Nahiri, I just think its paramount to have some draw factor in there, even if its nowhere near top's level.
I'm still impressed with relic as a card. Making deathrite bad, slowing down storm, and beating eldrazi all while drawing your top card seems great.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
Spellbomb is good too, but not in the more combo matchups. Maybe 1 relic main 1 spellbomb 1 faithless
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
This is true. I haven't ever really considered relic for my builds because I like my welders too much (plus Welder-Crypt lock), but this is certainly a very good point. Relic has a lot of play for the meta right now and I didn't even consider the draw part. I would certainly not blame anyone for running relic, although I would probably chop a Welder or two based off the poor synergy alone.
I am working on a black splash version at the moment with Bob and kolaghan's command, but I want to test before I post anything, because it might not be ideal. If not, the white list which was just posted looks very solid to me.
If anyone has thoughts about the black splash please feel free to post questions or suggestions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by merfolkotpt
Drude1 and I have been messing around with Black splash quite a bit (as well as a Mardu Painter List). I have to say after playing with a black splash for a couple of larger events I have a hard time going back to anything without it. I few tips/talking points to start:
The Mana base I have been messing around with for black splash is pretty standard:
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Badlands
6 Sol Lands
1 Swamp
3 Great Furnace
3 Mountain
Fast Mana:
3 Lotus Petal
3 Mox Opal
Key Card in the main we gain access to that have preformed well for me with a black splash:
Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast - Is an absolute house, protects himself, makes welder fuel, kills chalice/equipment/big creatures. Started out with 1 eventually moved to 2 and have never gone back.
Kolaghan's Command - Getting back killed welders AND taking out an opponents card (DRS, Jitte, Chalice, Discard) can also be used to save painter from being Extracted.
Nihil Spellbomb - I have been running 1 main board since it doesn't hit both players, can be used to stop an extraction if need be and also draws a cards without exiling your own graveyard.
Entomb - I have a few problems with this card, sometimes it's the best card in our deck with a welder out (or daretti on 6) other times it's the worse. I have been playing 2-3 but would love some input from you guys about it
As for sideboard cards:
Toxic Deluge - pretty self explanatory best sweeper I have ever played in painter
Leyline of the Void - Better than RIP since it doesn't turn off our delvers and against they decks we need it most is online in time to prevent them from doing anything (Reanimator, Dredge etc.)
Slaughter Games - Has been great for me can be cast very quickly with the amount of fast mana we have and can't be counter whats not to love.
Cards that I have not tested but could be good:
Chains of Mephistopheles - I can see this card being very good I just don't have the funds to drop on it at this time, Drude has been playing it though with success.
Dark Confidant - I like the idea of card advantage but with how much damage we do to ourselves with Tombs I have a hard time slotting it in.
Over all the biggest problem I have had with just going straight RB is that I have a really weak burn match up - I have tried running a lot of sideboard cards but most if not all of them feel very weak.
I've played around with BR builds specifically for k-command, it seems like an insanely strong card. Entomb is probably not great due to a heavy dependence on welder, but I really like k-command and deluge.
I'm only missing k-command and mox opal online to try this, may pick them up and run a few leagues to test.
I really like slaughter games as well, fixes some of our worst matchups.
I went 4-0 yesterday at GP Copenhagen side event with my trusted red build making my record post-top now 11-1-0.
Soon another go.
What's your list? Still have all the painter stuff on mtgo, wanting a solid mono red list to try in the next weeklyQuote:
Originally Posted by Hopo
Even though I'm absolutely certain that diluting the strategy always leads to suboptimal decks, I tried the grindstone Bomberman combination for like 50 test games and I'm absolutely loving it. It's just so much more fun than my other approaches so far post ban...
Nevertheless I'm looking forward to the next level of competitive painter deck that will emerge post ban. Jack: especially on you I put many hopes as you always seemed to find the right twitches to bring the deck to a new level!
Oh well, the second run was pathetic, so to say. I went 1-3. That makes it 12-4-0.Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkfrosting
This is the most convenient mono red composition I have tried after top ban, altough the Hope of Ghirapur is not set in stone yet and can be replaced with your favorite card. Four tournaments, three excellent finishes, one miserable showing.
//Main
10 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Chrome Mox
4 Painter's Servant
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Grindstone
4 Pyroblast
4 Blood Moon
3 Sudden Shock
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Hope of Ghirapur
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 3 Ratchet Bomb
SB: 3 Relic of Progenitus
SB: 2 Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 Fiery Confluence
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Another update, even though I just posted a list a page ago. I think small list updates are okay right now if it seems like its an improvement since no one really knows what the best choices could be. I will also add that I've had two 4-1 showings out of 5 leagues this weekend, with two 3-2's and a drop to round it out so tentatively it is going okay. Also posting current thoughts as they pertain to the changes and the direction the meta is going.
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
2 Plateau
3 Mountain
4 Great Furnace
2 Lotus Petal
2 Mox Opal
4 Imperal Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
3 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Blood Moon
4 Grindstone
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyrite Spellbomb
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Faithless Looting
Sideboard
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Pyroclasm
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Magus of the Moon
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Manic Vandal
So why this list/these changes? Storm/combo/elves is much bigger right now than anything we might need jaya for, so I made the swap between Jaya and Canonist main. I think getting lucky with the die roll and A) dropping grindstone/welder or B) having a t1 e-tutor for EE or C)oppo not having t1 chalice is the best shot we have vs decks like that since they are likely fast aggro and setting up Painter/Jaya is very slow.
This leads to my second point. Hatebear dork is part of the swap, but with running mox opal, having another random artifact to potentially turn it on is a random small upside. Furthermore, I dropped the plains from the board after trying it out for a few leagues. I feel that with mox opal, we essentially have steady access to a "plains" in the maindeck, meaning a consistent white source that can't be wastelanded. Given this list, optimal fetch choice is either 1 of each red fetch or 4 scalding tarn most likely. I say f that, I'm running my old border ones.
Sneak and show is also a much larger presence than it was before the top ban, so revoker I feel is a good choice main right now as it has relevance vs basically the major players in the field right now in LED, Deathrite, Sneak. Opal upside again is not insignificant.
I will also reiterate how good pyrite spellbomb has been, between trading in redundant artifacts (usually extra furnaces/stones) for a draw or absolutely wrecking deathrite. Damage pops up every now and then too.
For the sideboard, I added a third pyroclasm because I have gotten really sick of Grixis Delver and everyone thinking they are a good player for running deathrite shaman. A ton of the meta seems to be random small dudes, which is another reason. As far as the rest of the board, I'm happy with the walkers selection as they have some overlap yet still fill distinctly different roles. I'm still judging the best breakdown of the last 4 spots (the two artifact hates, 2nd thorn, 2nd crypt). Basically which artifact-bear do we want, do we need a 2nd for example. Should we have a RIP? I've liked the 2nd thorn as well, although it could be another canonist or a trini for the combo hate split we ran a while back in Shortcake. Basically it almost comes down to what is the most effective hate pieces we could run. For those who remember, pre-top ban shortcake lists I had a lot of success with stuff like crypt, rip, canonist, thorn, trini. We could revert to that and it could be better, I have just erred towards cheaper artifacts to start out since we are trying to turn on opal quicker.
Just wanted to get my most recent thoughts down for you guys. If you guys decide to try this out let me know what you do or don't like about it. I think its getting very close to being respectable.
Came across an old mono red build from 2013 without tops. Some old tech I thought might be nice to share - that faithless squee combo. Keep up the good work Jack.
Marius playing Painters Position: 5
Deck Name: Painters
Creatures [19]
1 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
3 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
Instants [6]
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
Sorceries [4]
4 Faithless Looting
Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon
Artifacts [9]
2 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Chrome Mox
4 Grindstone
Lands [18]
2 Great Furnace
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain
SB
1 Manic Vandal
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Duplicant
2 Shattering Spree
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Cursed Totem
Do you still have moons on the main? How many k-commands?Quote:
Originally Posted by Milo687
With the Bridges on the side you probably want 4 Pyro + 2 REB instead of the 3/3 splitQuote:
Originally Posted by mcbain
Yes I'm still running moons and probably 2. If I were to pick up a BR list right now and take it to a tourney I would probably play this:Quote:
Originally Posted by tired_papasmurf
~~Creature~~
4 Painter's Servant
2 Imperial Recruiter
4 Goblin Welder
1 Phyrexian Revoker
~~Arifacts~~
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Grindstone
3 Lotus Petal
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
3 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
~~Spells~~
4 Pyroblast
2 Entomb
2 Kolaghan's Command
~~Enchantments~~
4 Blood Moon
~~Planeswalker~~
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
~~Lands~~
3 Great Furnace
2 Badlands
3 City of Traitors
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Ancient Tomb
3 Mountain
~~Sideboard~~
SB: 2 Thorn of Amethyst
SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
SB: 3 Leyline of Sanctity
SB: 1 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Toxic Deluge
SB: 3 Leyline of the Void
SB: 2 Slaughter Games
Played a very very similar list at a win-a-dual event and won a tropical island. So I can confirm that it's at least worth testing.
I am not as wild about the entombs, but this is close to the list I am playing. The card I am trying out in the entomb slot and 1 daretti is 3x Dark Confidant, which so far has seemed quite good. The big draws to black far me are k command (also playing 2), nihil spellbomb, Bob, and sideboard cards. I am still testing my version out though, and there are some things that are clunky. I think the mox opal build makes far more sense with bob, as a sidenote.
I managed to top 8 a 45 man tourney with RW Painter
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15784&d=296841&f=LE
Match ups were:
Storm 0-2
Goblin Stompy 2-1
UB Reanimator 2-1
RG Lands 2-1
BR Reanimator 2-1
Shardless BUG ID
Lost the quarter finals against BR Reanimator.
Great work. RB reanimator is tough, especially when they know we are painter and play without fear for force.Quote:
Originally Posted by thebastard2
You find the fiery confluence pulled it's weight?
Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk
Is only having 3 recruiters a preference? Would you ever consider going to 4 and if so what would you cut?Quote:
Originally Posted by thebastard2