[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

I played Landstill today in the Qualifier.
This is actually only the second time I played in a legacy tournament. The first time was with a rogue deck at a recent Star City Open.
I literally threw the deck together for the first time today and didn't play test. It was only a 9 man tournament. We had 4 rounds of swiss with the top 4 breaking. I went 2-2-1 and made top 4. I won my semifinal round and then scooped in the finals because the guy was actually going to Rhode Island and I was tired from jet lag and also didn't want to play against goblins.

My matches went like this:

Round 1:
I went 2-0 against Affinity Tezz. This was literally my first time playing the deck and I made a million play mistakes but somehow managed to win. To be fair my opponent didn't seem to competent with his deck either. At one point he played 2 Mox Opals... Basically I was able to keep cranial playing and Tezz off the board to keep him in check.

Round 2.
I lost 0-2 to Merfolk. I lost the second game because I got greedy with fetching for duels and got completely shut down by back to basics. Didn't see that coming.

Round 3. I got a bye.

Round 4. I played against a BGW Stoneforge Sword deck and we drew from running out of time. My opponent had been 3-0 going into the round.

Semi- Well I got paired up with the guy playing the Stoneforge deck from the previous round... I won it in 3. He started going on tilt in the last game because he was pissed I didn't scoop to him cause he was going to Rd. Is. He was throwing a bit of a tantrum which was annoying and kind of immature, although I was playing with his Humility which he let me borrow, so I can't complain. He was also bitching about how his 2000+ rating was going to drop...
All 6 games I played with him were pretty close. Jace TMS and Day of Judgment were the MVPs as well as Spell Snare.

Here is the deck I ran.

Lands:
2 Island
2 Plains
4 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 City of Brass
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Karakas
=25

Planeswalkers
2 Jace, TMS
2 Elspeth TKE
=4

Counterspells
4 Force of Will
4 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare
=10

Card Draw
4 Standstill
4 Brainstorm
2 Sensei's Diving Top
1 Fact or Fiction
=11

Other Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Day of Judgment (didn't have WOG)
1 Decree of Justice
1 Crucible of Words
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Humility
=10

Total= 60

Sideboard
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Krosan Grip
1 Spell Pierce
1 Sower of Temptation
2 Pithing Needle
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Circle of Protection Red (only cause it's signed Beta!)

After playing the tournament I would probably take out the Decree of Justice and Fact or Fiction. They are too mana intense. I was used to playing the cards in Type 1 where I usually cast the off Mana Drain. Without Mana Drain I think these two cards are too clunky for Legacy. For 4 Mana I'd rather just cast a Jace or Eslpeth. Also the scenario where you cycle Degree under standstill never presented itself and doesn't seem like it justifies running the card.

I would probably up Spell Snare to 3 main.

For my sideboad I threw in the Tarmogoyfs as a back up plan if I didn't think the deck was working for me since I had never played it. I figured I could just go aggro. I actually sided them in several times and I kind of liked having the option, so I think I would include them again.

I only own one Engineered Explosives and never had the chance to actually play it so I don't know if it's any good but a lot of lists on this thread seem to have multiples. I never felt like I needed it all that much and was generally happy with Day of Judgment and Humility and Swords to take care of creatures.

Mishra's Factory was awesome especially against the Stoneforge deck. I would not run less than 4.

Crucible was also really good at times and I was happy to have a couple Wastelands to recur.

Overall I was very pleased with the deck and want to try running it at some more local tournaments. As an old school Type 1 player this is the closes thing I can get to feeling like the old days. It was great to dust off my old beat up revised Counterspells which I probably haven't played with since 1995. If only I could play with my Mana Drains.. Sigh..

So I got first and second place packs from the prize pull for a total of 14 packs. Notable pulls were a Sword of Feast and Famine, Blinkmoth Nexus, Green Sun Zenith, Mirran and Phyrexian Crusader and a few Go For The Throats.

Yesterday I played a 50-ish players tournament. Record: a very disappointing 3-3. First thing that comes to mind is that, don't ask me why or how, and maybe it was just bad luck all day, this deck manascrews a lot. Manabase I was running:

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
3 Island
2 Plains
4 Factory
2 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins

Maindeck: I substantially netdecked Metalwalker's list, because I wanted to give a try to the Tops (since when I used to play UWx I didn't run them) and Disk. I only added one more sweeper because my meta is pretty Aggro oriented, so I played with 2 sweepers+ Humility. First thing I want to say is that Disk, in UWx, is fucking impressive. Disk/ Ruins is a weapon of mass destruction. And the Tops were very good all day, saving me from more manascrews and finding win cons and sweepers when needed.

3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
1 Enlightened Tutor
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Wrath of God
1 Humility
1 Nevinryal's Disk
1 Day of Judgement
1 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
3 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Crucible of Worlds

Side:

1 Enlightened Tutor
2 Path to Exile
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Energy Flux
1 Tormod's Crypt
3 E Plague
3 Counterbalance

I write very few lines because I can't remember details and don't take notes.
R1: 0-2 loss against Dredge. He goes off both games on turn 2. Apparently 3 pieces of Grave hate + 2 Tutors and 3 Tops to find them are not enough.
R2: 2-0 win against New Horizons. Probably the only Round where I properly do what Landstill should do.
R3: 1-2 loss against Combo Elf. G1 I stare at my Stp/ Stp/ Humility/ WoG hand with no white mana in play ( and I even started land, Top keeping a 2 lands hand); G2 I draw my lands, and of course won the game through WoG and double Plague ( Tutors were invaluable yesterday. I definitely love the singleton maindeck and one more in sb). G3 I open the following hand: Mishra, Mishra, Island, Brainstorm, Jace, Enlightened Tutor, Swords to Plowshares. I thought a lot about keeping or not, I kept, casted an useless Brainstorm, and I lost, remaining blocked at 3 mana (2 colorless 1 blue) with double Tutor in hand.
R4: 2-1 win against Burn ( played by a beautiful girl, if she played blue-based probably I would have fallen in love) I lose the first before I even fetch my first land, G2 and G3 Countertop+ 2 Enlightened Tutors to find the 2 pieces win the games.
R5: 1-0 win against Maverick. I menage to easily win G1, then G2 I stall the game with Humility+ Mishra's Factory and Top, looking for a win con. Time ends before I can find one.
R6: 2-0 loss against Enchantress. This has been the Mu where EE+ Disk+ Ruins has been really, really impressive. And my bad luck has been impressive, too.G1 he goes off turn 4 I think. G2 I Counter his Karmic Justice, then he tries to go off and beats for 16 with some angels during turn 4-6. I sweep the board through multiple Disks ( I think I cleared the board 4-5 times through Disks and EE's), but can't find double W to cast Elspeth, and neither I find a Jace to seal the game. I even started land, Top, but at my 20-25ish turn I still have one W mana. Canonist+Facories provides a nice race and I put him to 3 lifes. Then he casts Blood Moon while I'm tapped out ( could not put Disk on top in response) and I only have Canonist to beat face.He draws Words of War, kills Canonist and finishes me skipping a couple of draws.

All in all, has been great to play again UWx after 6 months of Jace Landeed and 1 month testing Dreadstill. I also like this build a lot, and adapted well to my meta with some tuning ( props Metalwalker). I will probably fit more SB grave hate instead of 2 PtE's. I will also probably cut an Island for a Scrubland. I'm still not completely sure about cutting another Wasteland for the Scrubland and playing Waste as a singleton, as at this point I'd rather don't play Wastelands at all and play, let's say, a Celestial Colonnade or a Kor Haven instead. Thoughts?

( Double post)

If you can make it though the first portion of the article without stabbing your eyes out, there is a section discussion Landstill afterwords that might be an interesting read for most:
http://www.channelfireball.com/artic...comment-180112

I'm glad to see landstill getting some review. I am not happy to see the information on it, is for the most part wrong. I like Kyle though.

kiblast, good job man. I took UWb Landstill to a top 4 at a local tourney (small 12 man).

First, to answer your question on Wasteland. I am definitely certain Landstill needs 1-2 Waste effects in the 75 (or 76). This is not because it needs the Wastelands to win games, but rather, Wasteland provides a function for the deck to get out of situations where you can't get out of without the Wastelands. I've tested extensively 0-2 Wastelands in Landstill, and they each have their own benefits:

0 Wastelands: less colorless sources = strong ability to play double-colored spells like Counterspell, Jace, Elspeth at the RIGHT time.
1 Wastelands: since Landstill games go long, the Wastelands either become relevant with Crucible, or they are very important against hitting key lands e.g. Academy Ruins/Mutavaults etc. When you do draw them early with a non-land-light hand, they are a useful tool against many decks when on the play.
2 Wastelands: I feel 2 Wastelands for most parts is the right amount in Landstill. However, 2 Wastelands has color-screwed me much more than it has helped. It is important to note that color screwing isn't due to the fault on playing 2 Wastelands, but if you're playing lists with 4 Counterspell, 3 Jace, 2 Elspeth, 2 WoG, don't blame it on the 2 Wastelands for color-screw, blame it on yourself for playing too many double-colored spells. Since my list has primarily shifted to playing more double-colored spells, I feel that the most number of non-colored sources i can pack is 6, not 7 (1 Ruin, 1 Wasteland, 4 Factories).

I tried 1 Dustbowl in place of 1 wasteland and I don't like it. Being mana-efficient is much more important than recurring land-D. If you are recurring land-D in Landstill with Bowl, you are really winning since you basically can afford 4 mana a turn to nuke a land in the mid-late game. There are cases where it's not win-more but those cases are extremely rare and are usually classified as win-more strategies.

The list I played this week was:

24 Lands:
4 Strand
3 Misty
1 Marsh Flats (won't go below 8 fetches, it's extremely stable and powerful in a Top-build)
2 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
2 Sea
1 Scrub (3rd black source is highly recommended to support Perish against GWx decks packing Knights + wastelands)
4 Factories
1 Ruins
1 Wasteland

Cards: 11
4 Brainstorm
3 Top (best card in the deck, I used to play no-Top for bulk of my time with Landstill, but there's a reason why most mid-range control decks play 3 Tops e.g. Junk, Countertop etc. The person with Top is going to beat a person without Top as long as the game-state is going on in pace with Landstill)
3 Standstill
1 ETutor

Permission: 10 (dropping below 10 feels weak in my testings. You want at least 10 not just for early game stabilizing, but more importantly to ride your planeswalkers safely to victory)
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 FoW

Removal: 10
3 EE
4 StP
1 Wog (I might drop the WoG for 2nd Disk or swap Humility for a Disk when MM is out giving the deck a stronger earlier game to push a turn later for a sweeper)
1 Humility
1 Disk

Advantage: 6
3 Jace
2 Elspeth
1 Crucible (sometimes this feels even stronger than a Planeswalker even if you're not recurring Wastelands/Factories i.e. if you have Top + Fetchland with Crucible, it's hard to lose)

SB: 15
3 Peacekeeper
2 Perish
1 Path
2 Extirpate
1 Relic of Progenitus
3 Meddling Mage
3 Counterbalance

3 Meddling Mage + 3 Counterbalance with the maindeck package + 2 Extirpate has been tremendously stable and disruptive against combo. Pierce was great too, but it didn't solve some matchups in my own meta (Hypergenesis/Spiral Tide). Mage with Counterbalance is going to lock out Tide and Show players much better than a Pierce (which they will just play around, and since youre not putting opponents on a clock, Pierce is significantly weaker in Landstill than in Aggro control decks).

Mini report later when I have time. Merfolks is stupid, that's all I can say, and drawing my 3rd lands drop on the 9th turn with 2 land hand + Top was annoyiing as hell too, and that happened twice as well.

Here is my list post NPH. I've been pretty satisfied with it before MM. To include 3 MM, I cut down on -1 WoG, -1 Spell Snare, -1 Jace from the original list and I end up with:

24 Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Marsh Flats
2 Plains
2 Island
3 Tundra
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Wasteland


11 Draw/Tutor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
1 Etutor

9 Removal
3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Humility
1 Nevinryal's Disk


12 Permission
3 Mental Misstep
2 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

5 Advantage
2 Elspeth, Knight Errant
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Crucible of Worlds


15 Sideboard
2 Perish
3 Peacekeeper
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Extirpate
3 Meddling Mage
3 Counterbalance

12 Permssion spells (9 early game) seems pretty strong in the early game. This build is more focused against decks that plan to overwhelm you on turns 1-3. I felt that the 1-1-1 WoG/Disk/Humility split I played was pretty strong for the past few months so if the current configuration of 1-1 Disk/Humility with ETutor (I played ETutor in the earlier build as well) does not work out, I can just cut the ETutor for a WoG. However, I feel that with 3 MM, you shouldn't be in situations where you would have needed the 2nd sweeper effect, and I like how I don't have to play a singleton WoG that I can only draw into as an out.

I also like how with 12 Permission, you don't have to autolose against the non-aggro decks, since landstill playing against non-aggro decks game 1 implies that you have more than 10 dead cards lol. MM will change how I approach this deck in the early game i.e. I can treat MM as a creature removal spell against creature decks, or I can be more aggressive against decks with Brainstorm/Duresses when needed. I was really tempted to go up to 4 Standstill but I feel that would require me upping to +2 Path effect to fully abuse 4 Standstills with MM. I wasn't sure if I wanted to cut Spell Snare/Counterspells so depending on my meta, I could go -2 Spell Snare/Counterspell, +1 Path, +4th Standstill. Will be testing this list when NPH is out.

Cheers.

It seems like an even bigger question than the number of Wastelands or the colors of threats is whether you want to run Cunning Wish or not. I've never played Landstill without a Wish board and I've always loved it -- but of course, I don't know what it's like without. Can I get some opinions as to the merits of each?

Been thinking about my SB for a while for an upcoming tourny with an unknown meta, just want to get your guys' input on it (I run a pretty much standard UWb list with 2 cunning wish)

SB:
2x Meddling Mage
3x Peacekeeper
2x Path to Exile
2x Extirpate
2x Negate
1x Pulse of the Fields
1x Ravenous Trap
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Dismantling Blow

Thinking about switching out the meddling mages for perish since theres been a lot of green critters running around and I fear Zoo. I've never playtested ethersworn canonist in place of meddling mage, how are they? I've yet to get my hands on them. But I'm thinking canonist is only good vs combo decks while meddling mage can randomly come in other matchups like lands (naming loam) or other control decks (counterbalance decks?). I'm not sure... it's been like a year since i've been into magic and recently got back into it.

Hey everyone,

tomorrow, there will be a big Legacy Tournament.

As always, I am expecting a lot of Merfolk and other aggro decks. What colour would be my best options (considering my limited card poo?)

I was thinking Red because it gives :
REB in the sideboard : can be useful against blue deck, and against merfolk as Sword 5-7
Firespout : Elves, Goblin, Merfolk, and other aggro. Comes 1 turn faster than a WOG
Meltdown ??? : I've seen a few affinity in the weekly tournament. Not sure how it will translate to tomorrow's tournament.

Any thoughts?

A second problem arises : I may or may not be able to play with Jace the Mindsculptor. I own exactly NONE. A friend said he will be able to lend me one. What are my options? Since I am already playing Enlightened tutor, is it safe to add a few more and play the Thopter+sword combo?
ty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Omega

A second problem arises : I may or may not be able to play with Jace the Mindsculptor. I own exactly NONE. A friend said he will be able to lend me one. What are my options? Since I am already playing Enlightened tutor, is it safe to add a few more and play the Thopter+sword combo?
ty

---

I would not play Landstill without 2/3 Jaces. Thopter Sword is cool, but gets disrupted way more often even pre-sb (just think about Pithing, EE, E plague, Pernicious etc...) and is a more fragile wincon than Jace.
As for Affinity, Serenity / Energy Flux come to mind. If you are already running E Tutors maindeck or sb, try 1-2 of those in your side. They served me nicely. In Stiflenought/Dreadstill, where you don't have mass removals, I play both as 1 of in my sb. In Landstill probably just one is enough.

@Metal: Thanks for your feedback.Your reasonment regarding Wasteland works and I'll try just one when I'll sleeve UWx again.This leads me towards the inclusion of Tolaria West again, though. It gets you your Wasteland, your Factories ( under Standstill TW works effectively as your 5th manland) , your Academy Ruins, and furthermore is a shuffle effect w/ Top. Might be playable (and I used to play it) but I just hate the fact that I'll see it in my opening hand I'll have to mull.Regarding Dust Bowl, I tested it and was either win more or useless.

There are 2 "UW Standstill" decks in the Top 8 of SCG Orlando.

List is here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s..._Thompson.html

Not quite Landstill-ish, but definitely does a good impression. Thoughts?

Looks more like MUC/w. It's looks quite fun, albeit a bit weak vs. aggro. I'll test it a bit and post some results.

Super happy to see a control deck like that top 8.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Morbid-

There are 2 "UW Standstill" decks in the Top 8 of SCG Orlando.

List is here: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/s..._Thompson.html

Not quite Landstill-ish, but definitely does a good impression. Thoughts?

---

The number of cards off Landstill this is, is like 9. this deck has lands as the win condition + Standstill. It's Landstill.

It's an interesting list. It doesn't run any board sweepers main. Also 4 Jaces seems pretty high.

Llawan, Cephalid Empress is pretty tech against merfolk. I wonder how many games that won him.

I'm happy to see that Landstill is getting some mainstream attention. The deck has a lot of old school charm to it. And Mental Misstep is a great addition.

Double Post

Not a huge fan of his list but definitely something fresh to learn from with his approach and philosophy. In all honesty, I feel that if GerryT cut 2-3 maindeck slots for 2-3 Cunning Wish and took out the 1 Crucible and 2 more slots in the SB for a Wish/ETutor package, the deck will gain a lot more flexibility. His maindeck list is superbly strong in the early game (Which most landstill lists lack since most landstill lists have their philosophy base on dominating mid-games), and could really leverage the power of Cunning Wish.

If I am correct on my analysis on his list, it's the stability of his manabase, the super-dense early game answers to aggro decks (Repeal, Snare, Misstep, FoW) that allows him to drop a bomb like Jace/Shackles and win the aggro matchups, while having a super high density of counterspells against non-aggro matchups e.g. Stax/Control/combo. I don't see any big weaknesses in his build at all, aside from the slight lack of flexibility in the mid-game. And I definitely like how he's kept Spell Snares in despite the Mental Misstep Hysteria hype. I've tested Misstep in Landstill. It was great, but it was no longer great when I cut slots like Counterspells/Spell Snares.

This is a nice list, but without some mid-game flexibility, it requires a more focused piloting skill level which GT is fully capable of bringing across the table. I'm interested he opted for Llawan in the SB, rather than Peacekeeper. I think both Llawan and Peacekeeper spell the same result for Merfolks, (since the only way out they have against both anti-merfolk duds is to bounce/remove them). Peacekeeper is much more flexible against a ton more matchups (Emrakul/Progenitus). My friend texted me that Landstill was doing well, piloted by GT, and I just got home to check his list. I have no big vibes and it's definitely an interesting approach on "stomping early game, land shackles/jace GG" compared to the more common approach taken by most landstill players "have great diversity in the MD, enough protection in early game and dominate the mid-game". GT's list really focuses on winning the early game which has its merits, but could prove to be weaker in other matchups e.g. Counterbalance and Junk/Discard matchups (he has enough counters, but sometimes when you don't have enough mid-game flexibility, this will be a weakness in control decks). Without EEs, he has to fight Vials/Enchantress/Stax almost with just counterspells (repeals help but they never solve the problem, it only buys time and for Landstill, buying time is usually not winning games, but rather stabilizing).

I dislike Repeal, feels slow and clunky IMO. It needs more STP/Paths. 4 Jaces feels too much as well. Deck also needs 3 Shackles, card is a bomb. You can dodge vial by just killing everything that comes down and stealing dudes with Shackles. Imma gonna test:

-1 Jace, -4 Repeak, + 1 Shackles, + 1 STP, + 1 Path, + 2 EE (No reason not to run this IMO, Deals with Vial permanently and sweeps zoo's kitties).

@ Llawan vs Peacekeeper, I think its because he has no basic plains. With just tundras, a wasteland on your sole white source will let folk run all over you. This happened to me quite abit and was annoying as hell.

I understand his reasons for Repeal, although I don't fully agree with it. Most landstill lists these days worry about having enough business spells to win mid-game, or worrying about difficult situations you need to get out of if your opponents slip past your counterspell. GT approached Landstill differently with his list. The Repeals make sense in his approach that: "Nothing is getting through in the early game, whether it's spells/creatures, and when I drop Jace/Shackles against non-aggro/aggro decks, I win. All I need is nothing in the early game that stops me".

With all his counterspell and 4 Repeals, he is approaching Landstill from this angle (the added fact that his manabase is stable means that it remains unmolested).

I think this is an interesting approach that many Landstill players don't think about these days. However, I'm not sold on it. This is because I've played lists (speedstill for example) that are focused with this philosophy. Granted there were no MMs back then to supplement Speedstill strategies, the main weakness I feel with playing Landstill as a tight control deck in the early game is that you are not really leveraging anything with this method. You are still not winning games if you don't beat them fast with a Goyf/Jace. Landstill's win conditions are tremendously slow, and for most parts, decklist builders have decided that Landstill needs x-1 cards to reach critical maass in the mid-game. The traditional approach of Landstill is really have counterspells that counter neceesarily spells, let some things slip through and answer those with sweepers or x-1 spells (Fact or Fiction/Jace etc). GT approached Landstill by really what's a Speedstill strategy.

As I've said Repeal isn't ideal in a deck like Landstill. In CB lists, REpeal is still great because bouncing a permanent means that you can counter it with CB. In Landstill without CB, you are still not netting much advantage except for buying a few turns, but as I've mentioned earlier, buying a few turns in Landstill doesn't translate into winning, it translates into surviving for more turns. Regardless, I think GT build good decks for metagames he's anticipating, and looking at his maindeck/SB configuration, it seems that he was well prepared for the matchups he was expecting (Merfolks/combo/aggro).

Like what Mastershake said, it's about 9 cards off from most lists (most lists are 9 cards off themselves anyways), with 4 Standstills + manlands i.e. exactly Landstill. However, his approach with 9 cards off has been a different one. We'll wait for Klaus and Konsultant to chime in here on UW Speedstill when they get the chance :P

EOT bounce something relevant with repeal and then proceed to drop standstill must be as good as counterbalance, right? The extra card from repeal is nice and it cant be countered with misstep unlike E.E. @ 1.