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I don't like Bob in affinity. You drop your hand fast and he just slowly refills it. Often times you just need a quick boost to finish off the last bit of life. Thirst for Knowledge is great here. Redundant lands, Moxen, Memnites can be discarded for reach.
If you are going on explosiveness then don't you think Shrapnel Blast would help? I have found this to be great.
I'd certainly run Riddlesmith over TfK though. It's debatable for sure, but the smith is cheaper and carries a stick like a boss. Also, the effect is repeatable and will give you a bunch of ressources rapidly, which is kind of what this deck wants anyway.
Bob creates real CA and is better when you're completely out of gas, but it's much slower and can be a bit awkward when you flip a bunch of 3CC and 4CC cards.
@Shrapnel Blast: Galvanic Blast is the new Shrapnel Blast, that card is sick.
What Riddlesmith does is milling ourselves as soon as we're in topdeck mode (which we will usually be by turn 3). It gives you no ressources and that's not really what we want to have.
Bob's nature as a non-artifact creature slows the deck down more than it could ever speed up the late game. Affinity's only chance to prove itself in the current metagame is being the fastest aggro deck around. We want and definitely have to win by turn 3-4 in order to have a chance in the metagame. So both Bob and Smith are very poor choices.
Thirst for Knowledge is also too slow. We have Thoughtcast.
How are Sen Triplets in this deck? Too slow?
@The Big Ragu: I don't see 5 mana very often whenever I'm playing this deck.
Question of my own: has anyone had any luck with the Erayo version of this deck? I don't see much discussion on it in this forum.
Having almost zero knowledge of Affinity I have read some of the last posts and I got my eyes on your list. What do you think of the list below? I decided to make the deck abuse Standstill to the fullest as you might notice:Quote:
Originally Posted by eq.firemind
// Lands
4 [HOP] Seat of the Synod
4 [DS] Darksteel Citadel
4 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)
4 [MPR] Wasteland
// Creatures
4 [SOM] Memnite
4 [M11] Ornithopter
4 [SOM] Vedalken Certarch
4 [M11] Steel Overseer
4 [HOP] Master of Etherium
2 [MR] Frogmite
// Spells
4 [SOM] Mox Opal
2 [LRW] Springleaf Drum
4 [HOP] Cranial Plating
2 [5E] Winter Orb
4 [OD] Standstill
4 [MR] Thoughtcast
2 [DS] AEther Vial
I'm surprised Glimmervoid and Indomitable Angel aren't used more often.
Can someone update the first post? I am pretty sure we all agree memnite is a good replacement for the worker.
You really don't want to shroud your creatures. It nerfs your ability to equip your own creatures and use modular. Plus the Angel isn't an artifact.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Big Ragu
Good point. Logic always seems to prevail on this message board.Quote:
Originally Posted by the Thin White Duke
What do you think of...
Lands :
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
4 Great Furnace
3 Darksteel Citadel
1 Academy Ruins (Too cute to be relevant?) Test: AR is a late game card so no reason to play it.
Creatures :
4 Master of Etherium
4 Frogmite
4 Myr Enforcer
4 Disciple of the Vault
4 Arcbound Ravager
4 Memnite (Now 4 Ornithopter)
Spells :
4 Thoughtcast
4 Galvanic Blast
4 Cranial Plating
3 Mox Opal
3 Springleaf Drum
2 Shrapnel Blast (Flex Slot I guess)
Sideboard :
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Pithing Needle
I came up with it basically reading the thread and picking/stealing ideas here and there.
Edit: After testing the list is this but :
-1 Academy Ruins for +1 Darksteel Citadel
And -4 Memnite for +4 Ornithopter because the extra power is inferior to evasion.
I like your build Heresy
Perhaps the best build : THE classic affinity ravager deck with the new cards of Scar of mirrodin (mox opal, Galvanic Blast)
I think that the big problem of Affinity Ravager deck, is not the MU or middle tournament's result... It's about synergy and game play.
When, 3 years ago, I playtest Faerie stompy deck for example, I'm very surprised and happy to see all of synergy build. All of cards work together, 2 by 2, 3 by 3 etc... Some Aggro, some discrupt, some control, some cards advantage... it's like MAGIC !
Probably Affinity Ravager is the most synergical deck, but it's a Wizards of the Coast's Synergy. Finally we don't have the same pleasure. It's difficult to appropriate the deck and think it's your deck.
Thanks for the kind words! But I repeat this is based on other people ideas. I'm wondering if Memnite should replace Ornithopter? Lack of evasion is bad. Academy Ruins is gone like I wrote in the list.
Edit: Decklist updated.
I have created an Affinity-like aggro-control deck for the early 2011 Legacy meta, and would like to receive help from seasoned Affinity players to develop it further. For the lack of a better name, I call it UWx Metalcraft aggro-control.
Current deck list: (reasoning for card selections in the deck development thread)
// Main deck (60)
// Lands (16)
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Ancient Den
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Tomb
// Mana (8)
4 Mox Opal
4 Paradise Mantle
// Control (8)
4 Chalice of the Void @ 1
4 Ethersworn Canonist
// Other creatures (18)
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
2 Arcbound Ravager
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Master of Etherium
2 Etched Champion
// Equipment (4)
4 Cranial Plating
// Draw (6)
4 Thoughtcast
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
// Sideboard
4 Trickbind
4 Tormod's Crypt
7 ???
I'm digging the build. My only "concern" is that I prefer Chalice @ 0 to improve the combo matchup, however, setting it at 1 hurts their sideboard options much more, effects the rest of the format and speeds us up a whole lot. Have you considered mixing this list with the Erayo/Glimpse decks that everybody keeps talking about? This is the most recent build I've seen:
Maindeck:
Artifacts
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
Artifact Creatures
4 Frogmite
4 Master of Etherium
4 Memnite
3 Myr Enforcer
4 Ornithopter
Instants
3 Repeal
Legendary Artifacts
4 Mox Opal
Legendary Creatures
4 Erayo, Soratami Ascendant
Sorceries
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Thoughtcast
Artifact Lands
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Tree of Tales
1 Darksteel Citadel
Lands
1 Glimmervoid
Sideboard:
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Force of Will
2 Mindbreak Trap
Actually, with a sideboard like that, you don't need to stress over the combo matchup much, do you?
Disciple of the Vault + Ravager/Atog +Etched Champion + Cranial Plating = Win
While there may be competitive alternatives, the burden on not running these cards is on the other side.
As I have been pointed out in the deck's own thread, combo still has Hurkyl's Recall to screw my chalices over. Also, no one prevents you from dropping Chalice @ 0 if you like after you have dropped all of your cc0 T1. :P
Nevertheless, about MD choices:
-2 Arcbound Ravager
+2 Wasteland
Ravager without Fling, Soul's Fire or Disciple was not really worth the slots. I have dropped him experimentally for 2x Wasteland / rainbow land (Gemstone Mine). The intention is to reduce my dependancy on artifact lands to avoid getting mana screwed by my opponent (EE @ 0, Pernicious Deed @ 0, Wasteland). Truth be told, I have not thought of anything really relevant & synergistic to add into the last 2 slots.
Erayo is not so great in this build. Someone else may opt to +4 Erayo to up the blue count for +4 FoW, but I prefer fast clock over control. The problem is, I have already cast all my cheap spells T1 to set up Chalice/Canonist/Plating. So when Erayo hits the table T2+, it's too late (#of cards remaining in hand-wise) to flip him. Unless you just jam 4 of Erayo in deck and hope to have him in opening hand every time with T1 flip, which seems silly to me. Also, the decklist above had 11x 1-drop vs my 0 due to Chalice. Very different builds. I am still a bit puzzled by what the Erayo deck is supposed to win with. It seems to be all about the lock, but Lotus Petal->countered by Erayo, bounce Canonist, kill Erayo or combo off absolves it. And especially if the lock fails due to countermagic, the clock seems horribly slow unless the deck draws into MoE.
About Sb choices:
+4 Leonin Arbiter (-2 SFM and -2 E.Champion to bring him in)
+2 Wasteland (-2 Darksteel Citadel to bring these in & raise MD count to 4-of Wasteland)
was the best I could think of. Combined with Trickbind, this sets up a mana denial package against fetches and duals.
I have been suggested to run 4x L.Arbiter main instead of 2x SFM and 2x A.Ravager/W.land, but I am not completely sold on that yet.
Since I had still 1 SB slot remaining, I followed the recommendation of diversifying my equipment. +1 SoFI/SoLS/Jitte there (not sure which). Probably a cc3 sword to go past opposing Spell Snare and dodge EE @ 2, Chalice @ 2, etc.
My biggest problem with the classic build of Affinity is it runs out steam much too quickly. After quite a bit of testing with various builds of Affinity, I've found that dropping the Ravager+Disciple combo in favor of Steel Overseer+Dark Confidant is much better to destroy any deck that doesn't win by turn 4 or so, basically trading a bit of speed for much greater consistency. Disciple's a huge target for removal, and while this is the case with several of the creatures in the deck, Disciple is weak without Ravager. Sure, he might ping your opponent after some of your creatures die from combat without Ravager, but he's not good compared to Confidant, because Confidant will win you game alone. The argument against Confidant is that he's too slow, I often find he either: draws a land/mox that I wouldn't otherwise have, letting me play a spell I wouldn't otherwise be able to either through extra mana or color fixing. If he draws a plating, equip and win. If he draws Master, it gives the immediate +1/+1. If he draws anything, it buffs Master and Plating. Granted, Confidant can be weak vs. Zoo, Burn, but he's fantastic against any aggro/control deck (since he's another must-answer creature) and excellent against any blue deck, any deck with discard (to refill your hand), etc. Steel Overseer is fantastic when combined with the slightly slower, more consistent approach of Confidant while still retaining most of the deck's speed. With 8 zero drops + Frogmite, Overseer gives a lord effect every turn, which has won me countless games vs. Merfolk. They'd have 4 lords out, but I'd have Overseer, buffing at EOT to match and surpass their P/T. My deck also runs The Abyss a 1-of, since it doesn't have to much trouble hitting 4 mana with Confidant, 3 Drum and 4 mox
Does anyone have a list that is metagamed to beat Zoo? I really like Heresy's more classic build, just wondering if Etched Champion is worth including since the meta here is all Paths and Nacatls.
I dropped the Ravager-Disciple combo ages ago. For extra gas, I initially tried Dark Condifant (too slow unless you get him out with T1 Mox Opal), which I dropped for Thirst for Knowledge (kinda nice but bad in multiples in opening hand), which I dropped for Jace, the Mind Sculptor (has more all-around uses such as bouncing blockers and Peacekeeper besides "just" the extra gas). Yet, in the spin-off UWx Metalcraft aggro-control thread, I have been suggested Arcane Denial which seems nifty when paired with redundant cc0 cards (2nd Mox Opal, topdecked Ornitopter/Memnite, etc.). Basically, it has the potential to act as a Thirst for Knowledge for 1U instead of 2U, with the added benefit of relevant interaction with the opponent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenpoe
Also, if you are running white, 2x Stoneforge Mystic in the main deck is not a bad idea. Plating is THE card you want to find from the deck with D.Confidant/E.Tutor/whatever draw effect, anyway, and S.Mystic even puts it into play through opposing counterspells.