My personal opinion:
Out: Vendilion, spellstutter (maybe vial)
In: path to exile, RWM. If you know he's palying Jittes or Choke, a trygon predator too.
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My personal opinion:
Out: Vendilion, spellstutter (maybe vial)
In: path to exile, RWM. If you know he's palying Jittes or Choke, a trygon predator too.
I think I must have misexpressed myself. I am quite happy with the 18 lands in the deck (at least with 7 cantrips), that was not the problem. The problem were the attacks on my manabase by decks playing wasteland. That was a problem, Quirion ranger can protect your color AND hand you extra mana from Hierarch. That is why I sugested him. In the Merfolk matchup, you can attack with goyf and on their turn untap goyf by returning a Trop to your hand, can pose the opposing fishes for some problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by XiaN
lately clique hasn't been all that impressive for me even vs controll. How do you guys think about that?
Also mother of runes was cute but not that impressive.
The list:
// Lands
1 [P3] Plains (3)
1 [P3] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills / Will become misty rainforest
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [A] Tundra
3 [A] Savannah / will remove 1 and add a basic island
// Creatures
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Wonder
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
3 [UL] Mother of Runes / spell snare / nimble mongoose / suggestions
// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [LRW] Ponder
1 [CFX] Path to Exile / Sower / kira / suggestions
// Sideboard // Totally meta dependant.
SB: 1 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
SB: 2 [BOK] Umezawa's Jitte
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 2 [IA] Hydroblast
SB: 3 [LRW] Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 1 [LRW] Sower of Temptation
SB: 2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
A card i suggest you try out is Venser, sure he cost 2UU but he handles basicly anything. When i took out my Man-o'-war from the deck i missed it, then i tohught of testing venser and so far he has done his job.
He's worth a try at least.
@Waikiki: why no witness, I'm allways happy to see her.
I'd run or 3 mongeese in your open slots or 1 quirion ranger (is rather great) 1 sower/gilded drake and a witness.
Secondly: why run a basic plains? I'd agree if you would run a basic island once the rainforest become legal, but the main problem with them is that you are cutting green sources that provide you your first turn hierarch, mongoose, ...
Having played the "normal" survival for a while made me realise that the deck needs its green sources and cutting 3 spaces (island, plains, tundra) is not really great with only 18 lands. Sure we play 8 fetch, but even then I do not allways get my mana straight to fuel my survival, could be just me though, I'm not really having a lucky streak lately.
Today I've finished 4-0-1, and a Top 2 split with the list I posted 2 o 3 pages before (we were 28 people in the tournament). I've won Canadian Threshold (spellstutter is very good in this MU), team america (fetch basics like in canadian), a kind of MonoU (with a little white and black splash for EE, swords, and back to basics and perish in side) and a 4c Landstill (basically, vials and cliques in first game, and meddlings with cliques in second). I've make an intentionally draw with a friend, when both were 3-0.
In th top8, I've won a EVA green 2-0 (simply the squee+survival recursion), a UGR Countertop. IN the final, we decided to share the prize, causa he was a friend of mine, and I was hurry (the girlfriend, you know...).
Sure thing, but i'm so happy to run 1 of each basic every time the first wasteland hits me. The ability to win against AntiBasic hate is one of the key qualities of a competitive deck imo.Quote:
Having played the "normal" survival for a while made me realise that the deck needs its green sources and cutting 3 spaces (island, plains, tundra) is not really great with only 18 lands.
I think the open slots you have there are the "metagame" slots. I would consider this list -Predator ( moving him to the SB ) as the core shell of this archetype ( as of today ).Quote:
// Lands
1 [P3] Plains (3)
1 [P3] Forest (2)
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
4 [ON] Wooded Foothills / Will become misty rainforest
4 [A] Tropical Island
1 [A] Tundra
3 [A] Savannah / will remove 1 and add a basic island
// Creatures
1 [MM] Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 [JU] Wonder
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
1 [ALA] Rafiq of the Many
2 [ARB] Qasali Pridemage
2 [ALA] Rhox War Monk
1 [DIS] Trygon Predator
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
3 [UL] Mother of Runes / spell snare / nimble mongoose / suggestions
// Spells
4 [EX] Survival of the Fittest
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [CST] Swords to Plowshares
3 [LRW] Ponder
1 [CFX] Path to Exile / Sower / kira / suggestions
Maybe we should try something like that
-1 Predator
-1 Ponder
+1 RWM
+1 Rafiq
+2 Bant Charm
+2 Jitte
RWM is just our 4+x Gofy imo. Numerous times he has outraced an enemy's Gofy for me so far in the early/midgame and having 4 after boarding sounds solid in the aggro mu.
Rafiq is basicly 8/4 for 4 Mana. Sounds solid too and everyone of us can tell a RafiqMadeTheGame story :laugh: Maybe playing one more isn't that bad at all.
Bant Charm ... combines Spellsnare, PtE and the Predator into one card. But kind of expensive :rolleyes:
Jitte : Can't count the times i read in tournament reports, that people are simply loosing against a single jitte. Maybe we should play them. Has anyone tried so far?
And isn't the feary count a bit to low without Cliques? I was kind of happy that Sprite more often counters for at least 2.
And congratulations losada!
Grats nice to see you having succes with the deck!
@black mass
I never felt the need searching for a witness.
Also the basic plains makes sure I can use my removal under moon effects effectively. Maybe I can replace it with an island but im not sure about that yet.
Currently im thinking about sticking with spell snare. Mongoose is strong aswell. I hoped zendikar would bring us some goodies but too bad it hasn't.
Bant Charm is terrible and saying it is Spell Snare, Predator, and Path to Exile all in one is so wrong. It can't counter shit, it only hits artifacts, and the creature removal is the only relevant part of the card. Plus, its three mana.Quote:
Originally Posted by XiaN
I also hate when Predator is removed. Sure, it's slow, but it beats Counterbalance and Stax. Qasali isn't always reliable to land with CB on the table and against Stax, being able to wipe their board is important.
This weekend there is a big tournament here in Madrid (you can see it in http://www.elsantuario.es/foro/index...ic,4554.0.html). As all of you see, there are good prizes.
Well, yesterday I played against Loam (the GRW version, with knight of relicary) several games, and pre-sideboard I had no options. Relicary can find Tabernacle, Maze of Ith...and we have no defense against lands (Maybe I include 1 nimble mongoose).
I think it's going to be some Loams this weekend, and only with Meddling Mage in side ... I see necesary 3 path to exile in side too. What combination of cards do you think is the best in side against Loam?
Thank you!!!
Mage, Mongoose, Tormod's Crypt, Sower/Gilded Drake. Definitely a tough MU.Quote:
Originally Posted by losada
dont forget spell snare which stops goyf/wish and DD.
Also wonder and creature steal is great vs the deck.
@Waikiki
Have you thought about trying Lotus Cobra in the 3 open MD slots? I'm not a huge fan of the hype surrounding the card, but its relatively slow speed might be offset by Bant's early-game acceleration and survival might really appreciate the raw power of an early cobra. Bant plays a strong enough lategame that it might be worth a try.
I was thinking in a creature with protection from red, but I can't remember a good one that pass the cut..
I have been thinking about the card but I haven't been able to test it yet. We only run 18 mana in the first place and im really curious wether this guy got any impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by IsThisACatInAHat?
Today I did some testing with Waikiki's list (I used 3 Spell Snare and 1 Tower in the open slots).
The things I found out:
1) I love this deck.
2) I was surprised how easily you are able to win without Survival.
3) The bunch of Exalted Creatures makes this deck incredibly strong since the smallest creature can be bigger than any of my opponent's goyfs. Often, I found myself searching for all Exalted creatures (each turn one, with Squee) and afterwards a big beater in form of Goyf or RWM.
4) Noble Hierarch is a house.
5) I miss one thing: A survival-tutorable creature removal.
6) Spellstutter Sprite wasn't as good as I thought it would be. Several times I had them in my hand, but my opponent played expensive spells or my opponent played cheap spells early in the game and I had no SS in my hand.
I tested vs. CB-Thresh (I win 2-1), Mono Black (with Nether Void and Tabernacle combined with a bunch of LD) (I win 2-1), Affinity (I win 2-0), Dreadstill (I win 2-1) and CB-Thresh again (2-0).
So you can see that this deck can win against nearly every deck(type), but also can lose against them. You have no real bad MU, but no autowins, too. Just like Thresh. But this deck is a lot of more fun and has more solutions, due to Survival-engine. AND it CAN beat Thresh :).
Have fun with the deck, I had and will have my fun :).
Cheers,
Spider
3) Exalted is powerful when you're on offense, but I've found the deck to be difficult to win with once you get put on defense (such as against Merfolk/Zoo). This is one of the reasons I feel that you need 4 Path to Exile in the board.
5) I think Gilded Drake is solid in the removal slot. If you have Survival up, you have Wonder, so trading your 3/3 flyer for a flying Goyf is usually as good as removal. Eternal Witness to recur Swords is about your only other option.
Thinking about testing additional Eternal Witness and aether vial. This means less blue sources to pitch to FoW. How many Blue sources minimal to run 4 FoW would you recommend?
15 Blue cards incl. FoW.
Also, Rhox War Monk. The card is a house on defense against aggro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Misplayer
@ Blue count.
I would try to keep it above 18. You could go lower to like 16 or something, but I don't recommend that at all.