+1Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWingedAngel
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For Snappy.dec there's no better gy hate alternative for S.EXtraction.
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+1Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWingedAngel
-
For Snappy.dec there's no better gy hate alternative for S.EXtraction.
I normally use a combination of Purify the grave and Relic/Tormods. Usually a 3/2 Split. Somehow, I find that Purify is not enough to contain Dredge most of the time and it's a very common deck here in our meta. The trend here is that most players here lean on dredge and Reanimator as entry level decks for the Legacy format.
I really like the idea of playing Leyline even though it might be pretty greedy. Nobody expects Leyline and sometimes decks do not have any outs...
In my Thresh build i recently switched to Leylines...
exactly that's my point.Quote:
Originally Posted by OneWingedAngel
You MIGHT snatch game 2 vs Dredge, but some decks use Nature's Claim, and if you've just mulled to 4/5 to get Leyline, you are probably not able to protect it and therefore proper fuc*ed. Not to mention that this is a totally dead card outside of opening hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by miko
There is no reason to board in leylines against dredge and mulling for them is very dangerous since chain/claim will wreck you. Also dredge slows down to a crawl against blue postboard. I play dredge myself and I usually board out breakthroughs against slower blue decks, as DDD (draw discard dredge) is the preferable strategy. If dredge is taking their sweet time to kill you. You should also take your sweet time to draw the hate.
I thought FOW was supposed to come out against agressive decks like zoo? In reading the SCG Invitational report, I noticed both of the UW pilots who face Zoo in the Semi's and Final left FOW in their deck.
Shouldn't sideboarding (using Tony Chu's list) against zoo or merfolk be:
+3 Path
+1 Jitte
+1 Elspeth
+1 WOG
-4 FOW
-2 Jace
? I thought the secret to beating zoo was card advantage and FOW is card disadvantage.
Against Maverick I would do something similar, but it gets a little trickier because of Choke. What's everyone's sb plan against Maverick?
Going up against Zoo is pretty much the same as going up against Burn in terms of trying to buy time until you can cast batterskull and win. Force of Will buys you time and you need it in a fast race. Elspeth on the other hand is too slow. By the time you cast elspeth they'll have 3 creatures and stacked up on burn. Elspeth doesn't save you. Jace on the other hand is good, giving you a multitude of options. Zoo will run out of cards sooner or later and fateseal kills them with minimum risk to yourself as you keep them from drawing burn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
I would only side in the path to exiles (And in case of merfolk the Jitte as well)
Against Choke I like spell pierce, these decks also run GSZ and pierce stops both early game. Against Bant it also stops Jace. I started to run Spell Pierce main instead of Spell Snare, this is just a test, I don't know if it will pay off but it's pretty good so far.
Using Tony Chu's list I would probably side this way against Maverick:
Out:
4 Force of Will
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Spellstutter Sprite
In:
3 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Wrath of God (I have swapped the 4 leylines for 1 wrath and 3 Surgical Extraction, so I board in 2 wrath)
2 Krosan Grip
What do you think? I am really not sure if I should take out the 2 sprites, as they can connect with Jitte. I thought of Spell snare instead, but some of their best cards against us (Gaddock, Scryb Ranger, Qasali Pridemage) cost 2, although they can just use Green Sun's Zenith.
First off I send a big thanks out to planeswalkerzen for that great event synopsis. Congrats on going 3-2 overall as I only make 4-1 in my last event due mostly to poor draws and having to Mull down to 5 cards in almost every second game (can't keep 1 land hands without a Brainstorm to work it, etc).
In regard to the SB thing vs Maverick. I am online with Artlee; but as my list is slighted varied, so are my options.
4 Force of Will
3 Spellstutter Sprite (yes I actually run 3 maindeck)
In:
2 Path to Exile
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Wrath of God
2 Disenchant (I don't run any Green fo Krosan Grip)
I've also switched to maindeck Pierces. Mostly as a reaction to all the R/x burn decks, where Pierce shines, but it also catches GSZ, Jace, poorly timed Brainstorms, and flashback'd spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Setherial
I kind of have a rule of thumb concerning this sideboarding dilemma: if I'm bringing in Path to Exiles, it means I'm probably playing against a deck where Vendilion Clique isn't too advantageous. That's the first swap I usually make.
I understand the reasoning behind boarding out Force against aggressive decks, but I still don't. When played correctly, it can still be a very effective counter.
I can recall discussing this earlier, but I will leave my two cents again: Sideboarding out force of will may seem the "pro play", but in fact it's suboptimal 90% of the time: You NEED time to reach the late game against aggro decks, and force of will helps there, especially when you're running a weak sideboard against aggro like most people do with just a pair of wraths and a pair of path to exiles for second matches (personally still not understanding this as aggresive decks are the unfavourable matchups for us). It's just a question of common sence, if you're playing an UWr version, facing your second game against merfolk and sideboarding in like 4 red blasts, two explosives and two firespout it's reasonable to take out a pair of force of wills (a pair, not the four of them!), but if you're playing straight UW and just sideboarding in like 2 wraths and 2 path to exile (which, as said, would be a weak sb) it's absurd to sb out any copy of force of will.
Additionaly, in some circumstances you may need to stop for free cards that can beat you easily such as sylvan library or choke after an expensive spell like wrath or jace.
played against a typical bant list today. like this one: http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...8&iddeck=51704
i sideboard out the complete mystic package:
-4 mystic
-1 batterskull
-1 SoFF
and
-2 spellstutter sprite
in:
+1 elspeth
+1 crucible of worlds
+2 wrath of god
+3 path to exile
+1 wasteland
felt really strong afterwards.
any thoughts?
I see the Bant deck only runs 2 basics, but I'm not sure if I would use Crucible. If your opponent starts with Noble Hierarch and perhaps later Knight of the Reliquary, he is in a good position to survive easily, I would mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorondor
I don't see Crucible as a good choice defensively either, as you are able to fetch for basics.
Yeah, I run a 2/2 split between surgical extraction and relics. I played against dredge round 1 last Saturday and took game one by returning Batterskull to my hand to get rid of his 4 bridges (he had some pretty sick dredge's game one) and swords'd his huge troll to beat down for victory. I blew up 2 zombies early in game 2 with explosives so he couldn't Dread Return Iona as easily and won that game to take the match (I did have a Karakas for it as well) but I didn't draw any GY hate that round and was still able to win....so I don't see the point in going to extremes like leyline. I love Surgical Extraction and they are sweet little tech against the mirror and other control decks running snapcasters so I don't plan on removing them from my sideboard currently and relics are just nice generic graveyard hate that cantrips.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivanpei
Here's my current list for reference. I'm trying to tune it towards an open meta, with a certain showing of mirrors & Maverick.dec
Crits are welcome.
4 Force of Will
3 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Vendilion Clique
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Batterskull
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Jace the Mindsculptor
4 Flooded Strand
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
SB:
3 Grim Lavamancer
1 Path to Exile
4 Surgical Extraction
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
2 Disenchant
1 Jace, the Mindsculptor
I find 22 land too low for a deck like this. I want to be hitting landdrops for at least 5 turns. The general list im using right now:
I just started testing with + 2 mutavault + m10 dual + 2 spellstutter for -2 island -1 clique -1 counterspell -1 wasteland
// Lands
5 [PT] Island (3)
1 [PT] Plains (4)
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [TE] Wasteland
1 [LG] Karakas
1 [ON] Riptide Laboratory
3 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
3 [A] Tundra
1 [ZEN] Arid Mesa
1 [M12] Glacial Fortress
2 [MOR] Mutavault
// Creatures
4 [ISD] Snapcaster Mage
4 [WWK] Stoneforge Mystic
2 [MOR] Vendilion Clique
2 [LRW] Spellstutter Sprite
// Spells
3 [WWK] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 [A] Swords to Plowshares
4 [MM] Brainstorm
1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles
1 [SOM] Sword of Body and Mind
1 [NPH] Batterskull
2 [A] Counterspell
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
4 [AL] Force of Will
// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 2 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 3 [A] Wrath of God
SB: 2 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [CMD] Flusterstorm
SB: 3 [ISD] Purify the Grave
in the sb im not sure about purify vs extraction yet. extraction seems better against dredge where worse against reanimate.
Except most uw sb got 3-4 paths + 2 wrath in the side. When you're playing 8 stp with 4 snapcaster mages, that's plenty of removals u would need to stablize into the late game. fowing a t1 nacatl is just plain bad. the only reason i can see keeping fow against zoo or maverick is if you want an out to choke, that's it. Any other threats we have answers through cheap removals or we can easily play around certain cards like price of progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frid
Two discussions I'd like to hear...
Purify the Grave VS Surgical Extraction
PtG
+ Can be flashbacked without wasting Taigo
+ Can survive hand disruption (both Dredge and Reanimator pack HD)
+ Can be used to clear multiple Reanimator targets
Surgical
+ 1-2 Surgicals can be crippling for Dredge
+ Costs no mana, so can be active on turn 0
+ Can be used outside of strictly GY-based decks (It isn't dead when a Punishing Fire deck doesn't draw their Punishing Fire)
Geist of Saint Traft
+ Hexproof
+ 1-2 swings will usually assassinate a Jace or Elspeth
+ When equipped is nearly unkillable
- Dies to Tarmogoyf, **Snapcaster Mage**, and Vendilion Clique
- Has pretty narrow usage
Surgical has other (obvious) advantages like allowing you to tap out, swiping deck/hand copies in usage, catching all gy copies at once to shut down their would-be redundancy, etc. and seems better unless you know you'll see lots of reanimator, etc.
When unopposed, Geist's introduction of a very-fast clock against combo is a big deal. Also, I think this was mentioned, but t3 Geist, t4 Elspeth -> pumped, swinging 9 in the air is significant..