Food Chain Combo

Tarmogoyfs have been great and almost every time I'm happy to draw them if the board position doesn't need immediately an answer to something or combo to get the win home. Although they don't have EtB-abilities, they are big and can kill quite fast. Opponent have to think if they kill your tarmo or save the decay for your food chain. And importantly your tarmos block your opponent's tarmos. And if you have jitte in sideboard they are quite nasty against creature based decks (usually I side out a little bit of combo for example aethersnipe and griselbrand or manipulate fate). Then you still have the combo and you can survive from the swarm.

I'm also glad to have more threats if your food chain gets extirpated or surgical extractioned (happened couple of times on the draw if you have food chain in opening hand: discard + surgical). Also atleast one person has a couple of slaughter games in his nic fit-deck in our meta :/ Then you don't have to rely griffins plus couple of pingers. Maybe tarmogoyfs can be in sideboard and main would be more combo-oriented... hmmm hard decisions :D

Here's my list :

/ Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// NAME : New Food chain
// CREATOR : grokh (magic-ville.com)
// FORMAT : Legacy

// Lands
1 [UNH] Forest
1 [UNH] Island
1 [R] Bayou
1 [UNH] Plains
1 [R] Savannah
1 [ON] Wooded Foothills
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [R] Tropical Island
4 [ON] Windswept Heath

// Creatures
1 [M12] Birds of Paradise
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [AVR] Griselbrand
1 [CMD] Æthersnipe
3 [CMD] Court Hussar
3 [CMD] Fierce Empath
3 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
4 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman
4 [CMD] Mulldrifter
4 [SH] Wall of Blossoms

// Combo
4 [MM] Food Chain

// Instants
4 [CMD] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [6E] Enlightened Tutor
2 [MM] Misdirection

// Sorceries
1 [IN] Manipulate Fate

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [RTR] Rest in Peace
SB: 1 [CFX] Progenitus
SB: 1 [FD] Engineered Explosives
SB: 1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
SB: 1 [M13] Oblivion Ring
SB: 1 [ALA] Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 [DKA] Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 3 [PT] Natural Order
SB: 3 [SC] Xantid Swarm

With a :w: touch for Enlightened tutor, and enchantments/artifacts SB-options, allow to profit a maximum of Court hussar too, as a finder for the chain

This list has been testing pretty well. The card I am most sketchy on is sylvan library. Can't really afford life loss and seems too slow.

// Lands
4 [B] Tropical Island
4 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [TE] Ancient Tomb
2 [AVR] Island (3)
2 [ALA] Forest (3)

// Creatures
4 [AVR] Misthollow Griffin
2 [SC] Fierce Empath
2 [RAV] Drift of Phantasms
1 [LRW] AEthersnipe
4 [LRW] Mulldrifter
1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 [AVR] Griselbrand
4 [CFX] Noble Hierarch
3 [RTR] Deathrite Shaman

// Spells
2 [IN] Manipulate Fate
4 [MM] Food Chain
4 [CST] Brainstorm
2 [LRW] Ponder
4 [AL] Force of Will
2 [NE] Daze
2 [LG] Sylvan Library

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 3 [SOK] Pithing Needle
SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 [SHM] Faerie Macabre
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [SOK] Maga, Traitor to Mortals

I have gotten rid of sylvan library to max out on ponders. The deck runs much smoother. I have also pulled one drift of phantasms for the third empath. I have liked that change as well.

I feel like the maindeck is optimized.

The single drift of phantasms is nice because in the late game it can get what you need to win (food chain or fierce empath). You can always pitch it to force if you don't need it. Jace is such a powerful card in the abstract, it could be worth testing. However, I really like having a "fifth food chain".

I like 4 griffin and 2 manipulate fate over 3 of each because griffin combos so nicely with force. It basically makes force read "play this card for free if you lose one life". Drawing multiple fates is not great. Having for griffins lets you tutor for three with fate, even if you already drew one.

Running griselbrand has been relevant in a few games where I would not have gone off with out it (the empath for snipe, then bounce empath and play it for griselbrand trick).

The 8 dig spells are awesome. The mana creatures are perfect.

I like 2 daze because people have to play around it, but you don't draw multiples.

Mulldrifter is great to dig, pitch, or accelerate with food chain. Does a lot of work in this deck.

In the sideboard, I removed Maga and faerie macabres because I now only have one drift to tutor with. I have added 3 spellskites to deal with abrupt decay. They are also nice vs aggressive decks, especially ones with qasali pridemage.

My board is now...
3 pithing needle (planeswalkers, pridemage, belcher, random stuff)
3 spellskite (abrupt decay, burn, aggressive decks with pridemage)
3 spell pierce (show and tell, combo)
4 surgical extraction (dredge, loam, reanimator)
2 krosan grip (humility, counterbalance)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by germain

I have gotten rid of sylvan library to max out on ponders. The deck runs much smoother. I have also pulled one drift of phantasms for the third empath. I have liked that change as well.

I feel like the maindeck is optimized.

---

Eh.

I was playing a Misthollow list in Vintage for awhile, and doing fairly well with it. (Sanctioned with only about half of the crowd being fully powered on any given day.) I'm thinking of taking this brew to Legacy this week, and I've got a different take on it. I think your experiences are converging with what I'm seeing as a successful build, namely, "Don't play bad cards." I think there may still be room to go with your list, though.

Here's what I'm starting my playtesting with:

Creatures (19)
4 Noble Hierarch (She makes the mana we want, and she makes Griffin surprisingly lethal)
4 Deathrite Shaman (This card is bonkers good and deserves to be a 4-of. In addition to all the great things he usually does, in this deck he also regrows your Griffins if you're stuck in an aggro game)
2 Scavenging Ooze (I am not sure about this slot. Competition includes Tarmagoyf, who is huge. It also includes Quiron Dryad, who is essentially another win condition. She goes infinite when you're looping your Griffins. I like Ooze because it's just a more useful card generally, and both Dryad and Goyf just eat removal without doing anything, but I could be wrong.)
2 Fierce Empath (I agree it would great if this went to 3. Can't find space, though.)
4 Misthollow Griffin (I run the full four due to large amount of pitch magic)
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Dig (8)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
(I think you're right on here. These eight dig spells are far more efficient and versatile than the slow tutors or Mulldrifter.)

Combo (4)
4 Food Chain

Protection (9)
2 Misdirection (I believe it is a terrible mistake not to run some significant number of Misdirections and Diverts in a world populated with Abrupt Decay. Both seem better than Spellskite)
4 Force of Will
3 Divert / Spell Pierce / Abrupt Decay / Thoughtseize (Again, not sure which of these goes main deck. I feel like this is a sideboard slot. If I'm against BUG, I can't imagine anything better than Diverting a Decay onto their own Bob)

Mana (20) (I see you running less. That might be correct, but going below 20 can easily lead to awful mulligan decisions, and getting your only second mana source bolted dead can put you right out of the game. We're not fast or consistent enough to sneak by with less lands.)
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Breeding Pool (The blue/green combination is very important. Could be a pair of basics, though)
2 Underground Sea
2 Ancient Tomb (Totally agree that this is the right number of Tombs; I've tested this in Vintage extensively)
2 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard
3 Pernicious Deed (This hoses our mana dorks, yes. But I see no better option for wiping the board against faster aggro decks like Goblins)
3 Divert / Spell Pierce / Abrupt Decay / Thoughtseize (whatever you did not bring in the main earlier
3 Krosan Grip (Agree on the need to deal with Humility, Chalice, and Counterbalance)
2 Faerie Macabre / Scavenging Ooze (more dredge / reanimator insurance)
1 Hurkyl's Recall / Seeds of Innocence (I like at least one card to shore up affinity and MUD)
3 Sower of Temptation / Dismember / Threads of Disloyalty (In matchups against true BUG or RUG, you will probably need to rely less on the combo and more on an attrition war against them)

In goldfishing so far, the deck has a route to victory by turn 4 about half of the time, but does not have protection on all of those occasions. The other half of the time, you get to infinite mana but then have nothing to do with it, awkwardly. I am considering other ways to ensure that you always have a win available once you go off. Possibilities include:

- Omnath, Lord of Mana (seems fine with all our mana dorks normally)
- Quiron Dryad (seems fine with our numerous durdle-the-top-deck cards)

...and nothing else, actually. Remember, I'm not looking for another bullet that i can only fire when you combo out, like Maga. I'm looking for something you drop early as you play an aggro-control game, and then it gets stupid-huge when and if you combo.

EDIT: Actually, there are a few other options for finishers.

-Animar, Soul of Elements
This requires a Red splash, but with all the Deathrites and Fetches, that isn't so hard to pull off. The ability to dodge black and white removal and defenders is a pretty huge bonus over what you get with any other creature that you can grow to insane sizes using Griffin.

- Champion of Lambholt
Ah, this one is interesting, too. When you go infinite, it can't be blocked. It's pretty lame before you go off, though, since it will come down after your 1-drops and not really grow again except due to Griffin.

- Essence Warden
Maybe? I dont think you're going to be gaining a ton of life until you combo, though, so she seems pretty bad.

- Fable of Wolf and Owl
Infinity birds, but way too expensive.

-Forgotten Ancient
Interesting, but too expensive. Probably worse than Dryad.

-Gravegill Duo, Primeval Bounty, Bronzebeak Moa,
These are terrible, terrible cards but they do like to be romanced by a Griffin blinking an infinity of times.

- Primordial Sage, Soul of the Harvest, Glimpse, Beck // Call, Cream of the Crop, Dire Undercurrents, Garruck's Packleader, Kavu Lair
These just draw you into another win and are probably worse than more Fierce Empaths. However, at least Glimpse has the potential to be a value play in the early game. I think you'd need at least 12 1-drops to make thiis worthwhile, though. We're not doin that.

- Sage's Row Denezin
Yeah, it's a milling alt win, but again these cards are super bad until you combo.

So, as far as I can tell, the only serious options are:

1. Qurion Dryad (Cheap, decent before combo, dies to removal, no evasion)
2. Tarmagoyf (Cheap, good but does jack all with combo, dies to removal, no evasion)
3. Animar, Soul of Elements (Expensive, decent before combo, evades black and white removal, has evasion against black and white)
4. Omnath (Expensive, but decent before combo with extra lands, dies to removal, no evasion)
5. Scavening Ooze (Cheap, good but does jack all with combo, dies to removal, no evasion, regrows Griffins, gains you life, hoses yard)

I still feel like Ooze gives you the most bang for the buck, but perhaps we stick a few Animars in the sideboard for matches against Swords...?

No Manipulate Fates eh?

Sorry I haven't been on top of the primer yet -- I was on vacation (in Sweden!) for a few weeks and now I'm back in the swing of getting caught up at work. I haven't had too much time to play Legacy due to that, but there is a SCG Open in Minneapolis this coming Sunday I plan on taking part in. Haven't decided if this is going to be the deck I'll play yet, but I certainly want it to be. :)

I don't understand running no Manipulate Fate. Cantrips. Shuffle for brainstorm. Puts griffins in exile. Just run a wonky Recruiter chain if you don't run griffin and don't run griffins if you aren't running Manipulate Fate. I also don't get no Intuition. Against decks that can't interact on the stack Intuition is instant Demonic Tutor for Food Chain and lets you just go get it, untap and possibly win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I don't understand running no Manipulate Fate. Cantrips. Shuffle for brainstorm. Puts griffins in exile. Just run a wonky Recruiter chain if you don't run griffin and don't run griffins if you aren't running Manipulate Fate. I also don't get no Intuition. Against decks that can't interact on the stack Intuition is instant Demonic Tutor for Food Chain and lets you just go get it, untap and possibly win.

---

I love both of those cards, but you have to cut something somewhere. With respect to Intuition, sure, it helps if the opponent is letting you goldfish. In the real world though, just about every deck has some way of interacting with you. The biggest offenders are gonna be countermagic, abrupt decay, and swords. I dislike the idea of having bank on resolving a 3 mana spell to go find my combo, and would rather rely on Brainstorm and Ponder, which cost less and typically never get countered. I think Intuition gets more important if you increase the number of Fierce Empaths, though, because Empath + Food Chain is a late game win. So, basically, I prefer 1 mana dig spells to 3 mana tutors.

Manipulate Fate is a much closer call. I can totally see the value in casting Fate early so you have 3 Phantom Monsters on tap. The reason I cut them in my list is that I usually want my Griffins in hand; I'm running four Force and two Misdirection! Still, I could see cutting one Force and maybe a land to add a Manipulate Fates. They do ensure you've got one combo piece and can more easily dig for the rest.

(Why cut a Force, incidentally? Because, as I mentioned above, Abrupt Decay is EVERYWHERE and absolutely wrecks your face It is the most commonly played answer to Food Chain. Divert and Misdirection are way better than Force at stopping this menace.)

I think two Manipulate Fates makes the most sense in this build. I have traditionally run 3 Griffins, but with maindeck Misdirections, 4 makes more sense.

I really like the idea of Quirion Dryad. It creates a low level beater and a way to stack a win condition that doesn't require Emmy or Empath.

Here's the list I will be testing with next, taking into consideration the points you raised MaximumC. 61 cards, so we'll need to figure out where to trim. I am considering a Hierarch or a Ponder at the moment.


4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Quiron Dryad
2 Fierce Empath
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Manipulate Fate

4 Food Chain

2 Misdirection
3 Force of Will
3 Divert

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant catacombs
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Ancient Tomb

Okay, so I went to the Legacy event. It was about twelve people, three rounds of swiss. I ended the day at 2-1.

Here's the list I brought:

Creatures (19)
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Tarmagoyf
2 Fierce Empath
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

Dig (8)
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

Combo (4)
4 Food Chain

Protection (9)
2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
1 Abrupt Decay

Search (2)
1 Intuition
1 Manipulate Fate

Mana (20)
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
2 Breeding Pool
2 Underground Sea
2 Ancient Tomb
2 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Divert
1 Krosan Grip
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Scavening Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Dismember
1 Hurkyl's Recall

Here's how the matches went:

MATCH ONE - Versus GB Rock

Game one I get there on the back of flying dorks. In comes the removal! Game 2 he gets his Life from the Loam + Ghost Quarter(?!?) engine going, and runs me out of basics. In this particular matchup, Quarter is actually better for him than Wasteland, as he can blast my basics until I run out! Game 3 we share removal, and I eat Ghost Quaters whenever I see them. We eventually go to turns, but I topdeck Emrakul to combo out and murder him on turn 2 of turns.

MATCH TWO - Versus Elves!

I did not know what he was playing. Game 1, I keep a slow and steady hand, so the Elf player goes bonkers. In come more dismembers, abrupt decays, and Deed. Game 2, I have a t2 Deed on the play, which prevents him from casting elves. I keep Forcing his Glimpse pitching Griffin. Eventually, an Exalted Griffin goes to work and finishes him off. Game 3, I have the God hand of Forest, Hierarch, Ancient Tomb, Misthollow, Food Chain, Empath, and something else who cares. Elves has no way of stopping me from going off on turn 3.

MATCH THREE - Versus Esper control

Game one, he didn't understand what I was playing and he is overwhelmed by Giffins in the air. Game two, he plays very carefully and correctly, managing to dodge Divert against his Thoughtseize (he was playing around Daze, I think) and stalls long enough to eventually beat down. Game 3, I miss my third land drop. We quibble over cards for awhile, but then Jace shows up and I can't find more mana. This was a frustrating game, because the entire time I was one mana away from comboing out (Griffin in exile, Food Chain and Empath in hand; just needed 2 lands and to stick a mana dork for one turn!) He wisely keeps me at 2 mana the whole game and eventually ultimates me with Jace.

CONCLUSIONS

Intuition is not good. It SEEMS good on paper, but it's not. Your enemies move too quickly to rely on a 3cc spell. I was far happier to play the role of BUG fish, which you can do relatively well, and just get double value out of Griffins. Then, if you draw the right pieces, you go off. This is easier than you think with 8 dig spells,and with the fact that Griffin usually ends up exiled.

Griffin is baws. Not only does he combo out and work great with Force, but he's also immune to Swords to Plowshares and Abrupt Decay, the most played removal out there. This was stymying people all day.

I did not like Goyf as a two-of. I should either go to four, or switch for Ooze / Dryad. Two mana feels right for the aggro plan, but Goyf just doesn't DO enough when he does drop.

Manipulate Fate continues to seem fine, but I never drew it.

Your mana is tighter than it seems. I am considering switching to more basics to hedge against land destruction. This deck, even with its dorks, has a very high curve for Legacy.

Thanks for the report! I agree with Intuition. And Goyf maindeck get cloggy. I used to run it sideboard, but then discovered there were some better options out there.

A few ideas for the Goyf slot:

• Wall of Roots
• Wall of Blossoms
• more Manipulate Fates
• Quirion Dryad -- as a win con

The Walls are nice as they're a pitchable body to Food Chain once it lands so you can ramp up to cast the Griffin. I like running 2-3 Fates, but with 4 Griffins, 2 seems right. And Dryad needs to be seen as a win condition more than an aggro beater.

Ooze seems a bit mana intensive and dies to both Decay and Swords, which kind of negates the whole value of the birdies out there.

Or, of course, +1 Fierce Empath for the sake of consistency. I'm not sure how much those two slots (Ooze/Dryad, etc.) actually affect the game. Perhaps we go for consistency:


4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Fierce Empath
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Manipulate Fate

4 Food Chain

2 Misdirection
3 Force of Will
3 Divert

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant catacombs
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Ancient Tomb

The only downside to this list is that it doesn't have Baleful Strix.

But I don't know if that affects our gameplan all that much against most decks, considering the sideboard we have.

Here is my current SB:

Sideboard:
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Krosan Grip
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Thoughtseize

Not sure if the 4 Thoughtseize is necessary, but that + Clique help a ton against combo and Abrupt Decay.

If Abrupt Decay is your primary concern. The best way to attack Abrupt Decay is targeted discard. Making your Food Chains cost 2BG ... I feel like you should be trying to win the turn you resolve it right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

If Abrupt Decay is your primary concern. The best way to attack Abrupt Decay is targeted discard. Making your Food Chains cost 2BG ... I feel like you should be trying to win the turn you resolve it right?

---

If we are looking to play around Abrupt Decay, a better choice for the deck MIGHT be Venser, Shaper Savant, since we will typically be ramping into four mana to cast our Griffin. The only issue is that it doesn't quit work super well with the stack if our opponent casts the AD properly.

For example:

• Cast Food Chain, resolves
• Remove creature for 4 blue (mana ability)
• Attempt to cast Griffin --
• -- opponent responds with Abrupt Decay on Food Chain
• AD resolves (Food Chain removed), Griffin resolves.

If the interaction went differently and we somehow had 4 blue available, then the Venser, Shaper Savant would be perfect in that we could remove the AD from the stack and continue on.

The issue with Vendilion Clique is that it's preemptive and needs to occur before the Food Chain is on the board. It actually works really well at your opponent's EOT before you go off, and it also sets you up for having a creature to ramp into Griffin with.

The only other mono-colored creatures with flash I found to maybe be worthy would be Spellstutter Sprite, Plaxmanta and Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir but I don't know if there are many 1 mana spells we need to counter, and it seems rare that our creatures are targeted... and Snapcaster Mage doesn't really do much for us either.

Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir is interesting because you could attempt to resolve Teferi before the threat of AD, as having one on board essentially means AD is no longer an issue. But then you'd have to either have 5 mana available EOT or... well yeah, that's the only way it'd work. At that point it isn't much different than Clique, except more expensive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

The issue with Vendilion Clique is that it's preemptive and needs to occur before the Food Chain is on the board. It actually works really well at your opponent's EOT before you go off, and it also sets you up for having a creature to ramp into Griffin with.

---

Most of the cards we're talking about suffer from being fairly bad cards alone, but using Clique for this purpose is actually a really good idea. It supplies you with more beats, fuel for the combo, and as aforementioned, guards against Abrupt Decay. I think that might be the answer here!

Now I'm thinking a main deck like this:

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Fierce Empath
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Manipulate Fate

4 Food Chain

2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Abrupt Decay

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant catacombs
4 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Ancient Tomb

Now, the reason I don't like three Empaths is that they don't do anything until your ready to combo off. I mean, you can go get Aethersnipe so you have a 4/4, and that's fine during the late game. But typically he doesn't do anything. He has a bigger downside than, say, Quiron Dryad who is effective in other ways.

I am pretty sure that this particular combo deck can co-exist so readily in a typical BUG Fish shell that you might as well put it in one. Make a deck that doesn't suck, and has access to a combo. Against faster combo decks, you sideboard out MIsdirections and some of your topdeck searches for more removal and play like BUG Fish. Against control decks, you run more protection and try to combo fast.

I've always liked 2 maindeck Cliques.

My only questionable slot now is the singleton MD Abrupt Decay. Is the singleton worth it? It's very good against aggressive decks, but how often will we see it with just one in the list? I am not against it, but I wonder if this is the best use of this slot. Perhaps Sylvan Library as more dig...?

This deck really likes having bodies, and the MD Cliques help a lot with that. They make me want to see the opponent's hand more as well. Maybe Thoughtseize? Hm.

I went 6-3 yesterday at the SCG Legacy Open in Minneapolis, losing to Storm, Sneak and Show and UWR Delver. I moneyed but would've preferred 7-2. :)

I lost to Jake Xu playing Storm in three rounds. He got 2nd place in the tourney. Game three he opens on T1 Ponder, T2 Duress (taking Misdirection), Cabal Therapy hitting my two Brainstorms. Ouch.

Then I lost to another friend playing Sneak and Show. He just 2-0'd me, as we don't have any way to disrupt his mana and are forced to simply try countering one of the 8 win spells.

The UWR Delver matchup was one I had won earlier in the day, but I mulled to 5 in game one and got Wasted and Stifled out of the game. Game two was pretty close as I had stablized with recurring Deathrite -> Misthollow fog/lifegain, but his Geist had already done its damage and I lost to a Delver that flipped to Lightning Bolt.

I plan on writing an article here soon, perhaps this week. I'll post that I do.

Maindeck:
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Deathrite Shaman
2 Fierce Empath
2 Vendilion Cliques
4 Misthollow Griffin
1 Aethersnipe
1 Grislebrand
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
2 Manipulate Fate

4 Food Chain
1 Sylvan Library

2 Misdirection
4 Force of Will


4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
1 Verdant catacombs
4 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Island
1 Forest
2 Ancient Tomb

Sideboard:
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Krosan Grip
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Thoughtseize
2 Divert


~~

Changes:
-1 Island, +1 Swamp
MAYBE -1 Griffin, +1 something -- the only benefit of having four was having an easy card to side out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MaximumC

Most of the cards we're talking about suffer from being fairly bad cards alone, but using Clique for this purpose is actually a really good idea. It supplies you with more beats, fuel for the combo, and as aforementioned, guards against Abrupt Decay. I think that might be the answer here!

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8 mana dorks in a combo deck over 8+ rounds seems like you'll get so many bad hands with mana dorks and no business.

Manipulate fate should just be a 4 of, it's Demonic Tutor + Draw a card for one part of your 2 card combo which is Food Chain + Griffin. I know the glory is having Empath into Emrakul (or Emrakul). But just casting 4 Griffins (and whatever else is in your hand) isn't bad either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

I went 6-3 yesterday at the SCG Legacy Open in Minneapolis, losing to Storm, Sneak and Show and UWR Delver. I moneyed but would've preferred 7-2. :)

~~

Changes:
-1 Island, +1 Swamp
MAYBE -1 Griffin, +1 something -- the only benefit of having four was having an easy card to side out.

---

Nice showing! I really do think we're honing in on a build that is stable enough to compete in the Legacy metagame. Your deck doesn't play any bad cards. Even if you're playing Food Chain as acceleration, that's fine, since your top end has some nasty fliers.

Which sideboard cards did you find effective? Did Sylvan Library do anything for you? Did you manage to live the dream and Misdirect an Abrupt Decay during the day?

I think you probably could go down to 3 Griffin if you have two Manipulate Fate, but then I'd also look at cutting a Misdirection or Force, perhaps, since you'd less often get the dream play of pitching a Griffin. On balance, I like the Four Griff plan better, but I'm open to change...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metamet

I lost to Jake Xu playing Storm in three rounds. He got 2nd place in the tourney. Game three he opens on T1 Ponder, T2 Duress (taking Misdirection), Cabal Therapy hitting my two Brainstorms. Ouch.

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Did you have something to pitch? I almost always will Misdirect a Duress or Thoughtseize after turn 1, because it usually means they are trying to open a hole for something bad to happen. And paying two cards for their two cards is great when you get the best card in their hand out of the deal.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

8 mana dorks in a combo deck over 8+ rounds seems like you'll get so many bad hands with mana dorks and no business.

Manipulate fate should just be a 4 of, it's Demonic Tutor + Draw a card for one part of your 2 card combo which is Food Chain + Griffin. I know the glory is having Empath into Emrakul (or Emrakul). But just casting 4 Griffins (and whatever else is in your hand) isn't bad either.

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I'd be with you if we were still playing Wall of Roots and Birds of Paradise, but when you play Noble Hierarch and Deathrite Shaman, your mana dorks can actually present a legitimate threat all on their own. That's the beauty of not playing with bad cards. A hand with lands, mana dorks, and maybe a dig spell is totally keepable if you don't think you need to combo off turn 2 to win the match.