WotC Presents: You Make the Card 4

SO MUCH HATE

This was the one I wanted from the get-go, and I'm happy to see it made it this far. They could totally dick it with a bad mana cost, I suppose it depends on the Standard environment it is released into. Discard hasn't been anything like it used to be in Standard for quite some time; Kozilek and Thoughtseize were both printed like 5 and 3 years ago, and there hasn't really been an analog since then for either one. The most relevant discard effects all live in Eternal.

Maybe I'm just more willing to let my inner Johnny out than I have been in years prior, and maybe this is only competitively "on par" with Megrim even with a BB casting cost. I'll be sad to see it over 4, because at that point discard is fruitless against most decks, but they could also do me a solid and just print it like I've been hoping they might; as a pretty-good enabler of discard-heavy Black strategies. I look forward to Ritual > RoN > Therapy/Thoughtseize and grabbing some dork, then flashing back Therapy to hit the jackpot.

Unless it costs 3BB. Then it'll just be garbage, and I'll just be as angry as the rest of you. >:/

The big problem is the ability for when they discard a land. It's hard to set yourself up so that you can capitalize on the possibility of getting extra mana. It's even harder to set it up when your opponent gets to choose what you get.

Overall I like the card since it makes hymn to tourach even more exciting.

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Originally Posted by Malchar

The big problem is the ability for when they discard a land. It's hard to set yourself up so that you can capitalize on the possibility of getting extra mana. It's even harder to set it up when your opponent gets to choose what you get.

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That's what I said before.

I'm pretty sure they'll remove it or change it into something more useful.

But reading the article, the creator intended it to be a multiplayer-"fuck you" card. Not sure how R&D is going to handle that.

Another big problem for this cards is even more decreasing your power in the late game. Not only will you have several discard effects as painfully weak topdecks — but also this cards. A deck can only take a certain amount of really bad topdecks.

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Originally Posted by Julian23

Another big problem for this cards is even more decreasing your power in the late game. Not only will you have several discard effects as painfully weak topdecks — but also this cards. A deck can only take a certain amount of really bad topdecks.

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That's the prime problem of the card.

I'm really interested to see how it turns out. I would laugh really, really hard if R&D rejects the design in its current form because it blows.

If you could discard stuff as well to get benefits, then it would surely get interesting (and probably unplayable due its horrendous CC).

The prime problem of the card is that it is BORING. You cast this. Then you cast discard. Assume for a moment they inflate the numbers on it / give it a low enough CC to be actually playable. They aren't going to allow it to become a combo engine - all it will ever be is "super geth's grimore". At least blood had some cool interactions to build around.

I like Revenge of Necromancy because it is an interesting build-around-me card. Looks like fun in EDH but useless most anywhere else since discard-based strategies are typically bad. I think they're going to fool around with the wording a bit because it seems extremely clunky and is probably bad as-is. It's at least more interesting than another variant of Phyrexian Reclamation.

The moment WotC switches the discard to a "put into graveyard"-clause and make it cost less than 5 mana, the card becomes a powerhouse. In it's current form (and a cost < 3) it could only fuel (modern-)decks with Reforge the Souls and the Cipher-Windfall

It's too bad that Blood in the Watering Can didn't win.

That card, if properly costed, could have fueled several different kinds of B/x Aggro and Control decks, and additionally could have been a very powerful engine in a R/B aggro list.

Was looking forward to playing with it, alas, we have the Casual Jank instead.

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In it's current form (and a cost < 3) it could only fuel (modern-)decks with Reforge the Souls and the Cipher-Windfall

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Dunno, the card advantage aspect seems pretty potent to me. I think it would be legacy playable or better at :b::b:.

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Originally Posted by rufus

Dunno, the card advantage aspect seems pretty potent to me. I think it would be legacy playable or better at :b::b:.

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If it was :b::b: and had :b:: Target player discards a card (in addition to the current stuff), it'd be pretty rad. Or even :b:, T: Target player discards a card.

Hmm.. the interaction with something like Ill-Gotten Gains seems a little interesting. What do you get to know before you pull cards back into your hand?

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Originally Posted by rufus

Hmm.. the interaction with something like Ill-Gotten Gains seems a little interesting. What do you get to know before you pull cards back into your hand?

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I wish it worked off of all players instead of just opponents.

My ideal version of this is probably like this:

Necromancer's Revenge :b::b: (or maybe :1::b::b:)

Enchantment

Whenever a player discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature onto the battlefield.
Whenever a player discards a land card, add :b::b: to your mana pool.
Whenever a player discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.

:b:, T: Target player discards a card.

That plus cycling, oh man I tingle at the thought.

EDIT: Oh god, in multiples, it could be like what Bridge From Below is for Dredge in Astral Slide! Max tingle!

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Originally Posted by ankharlyn

I wish it worked off of all players instead of just opponents.

My idea version of this is probably like this:

Necromancer's Revenge :b::b: (or maybe :1::b::b:)

Enchantment

Whenever a player discards a creature card, put a 2/2 black Zombie creature onto the battlefield.
Whenever a player discards a land card, add :b::b: to your mana pool.
Whenever a player discards a noncreature, nonland card, draw a card.

:b:, T: Target player discards a card.

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Wouldn't the tapping of an enchantment "turn it off"? So it'd be an option of making your opponent discard at instant speed but getting no benefit, or get a benefit, make them discard in another way. It would make getting multiples way more tolerable.

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Originally Posted by ahg113

Wouldn't the tapping of an enchantment "turn it off"? So it'd be an option of making your opponent discard at instant speed but getting no benefit, or get a benefit, make them discard in another way. It would make getting multiples way more tolerable.

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AFAIK it doesn't inherently turn off the "whenever" abilities. I think that might be a decent drawback, but I don't know how to template it correctly so that it activates the first time, but not if it's already tapped.

I could see making the discard be activated only at sorcery speed, though. Of course, I seriously doubt we'll get the bundled discard ability at all, but IMO it would turn this from almost totally lame to really neat (in addition to making it work on your own discards).

I almost think my version would be too powerful with multiple copies. Might be more balanced if it were Legendary. Might also need to be :b::b: for the activation if it stays at instant speed, though just a single :b: would IMO be fine for sorcery speed.

If it's symmetrical (without any extra abilities), I doubt very much that it's going to be in the Legacy-playable CC range.

It's already stupid with Liliana, but it would turn into nuts with stuff like Reforge the Soul.

Also, Pox, anyone?

Being symmetrical would make this card insane in LED combo based decks. Draw a bunch of cards and make mana? Sure why not!!

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Originally Posted by Barook

If it's symmetrical (without any extra abilities), I doubt very much that it's going to be in the Legacy-playable CC range.

It's already stupid with Liliana, but it would turn into nuts with stuff like Reforge the Soul.

Also, Pox, anyone?

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To be honest, I don't think the Reforge the Soul thing is better than reanimating a Griselbrand when it comes to making combo decks that are like ANT but don't run Ad Noz. It's certainly more amusing, but I really don't want to Reforge while I'm going off and then give my opponent a hand full of counters. Chaining Reforges is also awkward because you need to make a ton of red mana but your cantrips are going to be blue and this card is likely heavy black, while you're probably splashing white for Chant/Silence. Holy shitty manabase, Batman!

Which is not to say that there's not something sweet you can do with it. That Zombie Goblin Bombardment deck would love to have this card be symmetrical - it makes Zombie Infestation pretty bonkers, for example (discard a Gravecrawler and another dude, get three 2/2 tokens and your Gravecrawler back). Whether any of these lines are worth running a card that does actual nothing by itself is another matter entirely.

(This is assuming the take the current text and make it apply to any player. Giving the enchantment a built-in discard ability changes the analysis a little, but not much.)

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Originally Posted by Aggro_zombies

Which is not to say that there's not something sweet you can do with it. That Zombie Goblin Bombardment deck would love to have this card be symmetrical - it makes Zombie Infestation pretty bonkers, for example (discard a Gravecrawler and another dude, get three 2/2 tokens and your Gravecrawler back). Whether any of these lines are worth running a card that does actual nothing by itself is another matter entirely.

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Sounds like fun with Faithless Looting or Burning Inquiry.