Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
On the subject of hate bears:
While I agree that the white splash isn't worth it for Thalia or Canonist because Sphere effects without color requirements are better, I have been testing a Bayou main for four Dark Confidants in the side. If you run them with Chalice of the Void, you can board them in against both removal heavy decks with Swords and Lightning Bolt and against combo decks. The extra card seems way worth it in these matches. Board could look something like this:
4 Krosan Grip (maybe 3/1 split with Abrupt Decay, since you're splashing black, but you don't wanna overload on black cards for fear of missing mana requirements)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinisphere (in this Omnitell meta, though I'd switch them to Spheres in a Storm meta)
1 Dark Depths
Whenever your board in Chalice, the only viable option is to board out all one-mana spells besides Exploration, but that's okay if you have Dark Confidant because it can replace Gamble as your consistency card. I wouldn't board this way against Delver decks, and probably not Midrange since Chalice won't have as much of an effect against decks with loads of answers, but I definitely would board into Confidants and Chalices against combo and Miracles.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gigapatrick
I have been testing a Bayou main for four Dark Confidants in the side. If you run them with Chalice of the Void, you can board them in against both removal heavy decks with Swords and Lightning Bolt and against combo decks. The extra card seems way worth it in these matches. Board could look something like this:
4 Krosan Grip (maybe 3/1 split with Abrupt Decay, since you're splashing black, but you don't wanna overload on black cards for fear of missing mana requirements)
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dark Confidant
2 Trinisphere (in this Omnitell meta, though I'd switch them to Spheres in a Storm meta)
1 Dark Depths
I don't think I could stand a black splash without including Chains Of Mephistopheles and/or Nethervoid. Losing Ghost Quarter and Karakas would be hard to swallow too. Keeping the board down to 15 is the hardest thing for me when I take Lands into battle.
Edot - unrelated, what are people's thoughts on the 4cc Loam MU? I think we'll be seeing a lot of this deck looking forward!
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
Edot - unrelated, what are people's thoughts on the 4cc Loam MU? I think we'll be seeing a lot of this deck looking forward!
I played the Devastating Dreams build of that deck. I think it's not too bad. If you can resolve an Exploration I think you are heavily favoured. I think you are also heavily favoured with a Mox Diamond in play.
The issue with the 4c loam decks is their creatures either die to Punishing Fire or are answered by Maze of Ith. Our loams are better since we have access to Exploration. Again, dealing with Chalice on turn 1 can be a problem.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
To all: can we please stop posting in that other thread? It's such a pathetic discussion. Some of those 'I'm better because we're REAL Lands-players' will stick to their guns, just let them. Our Ancestor is the same, we just run along different paths.
To me we're Brothers-in-Arms. It saddens me, and to a certain degree irritates me, that some of our Brothers find themselves to be better. I had a great respect for the most of them, but that respect rapidly fades away.
It's a shame really, but what can you do? Don't try to make a blind man see, or a deaf man hear: you will fail. Let's just let it be, and hope that our Brothers-in-Arms will just relax a bit.
(Not posting there, because of high emotions on their part)
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Fair, I should walk away. Thanks for the level headed post.
In other news, Origins became legal here today, grabbed my Vortex's. Should be fun. I have also been having issues with Reanimator locally too. The opponent always seems to have a strong enough hand to just squash me like a fly. He gets some nasty thing that bounces my shit when he casts a spell and locks me. The amount of times I have put the Witch down and just seen her flicked away... I can't beet that fucking deck.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Hey there
Just thought I would post my Lille list. Went 5-3 Day one and then in the Big Sunday Win duals event I went 6-1 for a Trop and Taiga.
Day one losses to
BUG Delver (round 1, I was overhot and overtired, others will be able to attest to that rooms joke temperature, I beat this guy the day before and was really pissed at my mistakes)
Merfolk (also played this guy in a trial the day before and lost as well. he knew what he was doing)
D and T (this guy had absolutely no idea. Luck played a large part in this loss)
TBH I was very disappointed in my performance and felt i really should have Day2. I felt my list was very good for the event.
BOM win a dual loss
Dredge. I played absolutely shockingly poorly. Didn't mulligan to a crop hand G2 and kept a solid hand that was fine against an unknown deck. But in game 2 I know he is on dredge. Just spectacularly bad from me.
List
4 Crop
4 Gamble
4 Pfire
4 Loam
4 Exploration
4 Mox Diamond
2 Manabond
4 Stage
4 Waste
4 Port
4 Grove
2 Taiga
1 Forest
3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)
3 Maze
3 Depths
1 Chasm
2 Thicket
1 Tabernacle
1 Karakas
1 Bog
1 Ghost Quarter
Side
4 Grip
4 Sphere of resistance
3 Trinisphere
3 Choke
1 Boseiju
Yep. That is 61 cards. For this tournament I felt I needed to hedge against the random dredge and reanimator opponents with both bog and Karakas main. It also frees up alot of very needed space in the side if we are to fully combat Miracles and Omnitell. the Bog is also randomly good against all those Gurmag DTT decks we predicted. The 8 tutors main should, in my view, mean it is not too much of a problem having 61 cards.
Sideboardwise I think this is pretty great. Bringing 14 cards in vs omni certainly helps. Trinisphere off Show and Tell followed up with a Grip or Choke does some spectacular work. With DTT still around after the ban announcement I would recommend this side to all.
Anyway hope this is interesting to someone, happy to answer any questions on the two days and my list and thoughts about matchups.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
To all: can we please stop posting in that other thread?
I play both versions, so I can't really do that! The decks have a lot in common, and sometimes the most effective way to describe or discuss something is to compare and contrast it to something else similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
I will concede this deck is then harder of the two common lands decks to learn, I think Combo is harder to pilot though since its reduced late game options makes for catching up in the late game hard if you slip behind. You get punished harder if you fuck up with Combo Lands and most of your choices of compounded into the opening two turns. If you read the game state wrong, you will pay for it harder then RUG would because you don't have something like EE to save you.
This deck is better than the others? I would argue that they both offer a strength the other doesn't possess. Combo Lands is faster, it's tutors are cheaper, it can get Loam online faster and it is able to pull faster wins. It falls far short of RUGs catch up potential, it's somewhat inconsistent since it has to bet on Loaming what it needs and it has to build in redundancy because of that. It can play a totally Graveyard free game though. The flip side is that RUG can run one of silver bullets that just win games. It gets Zuran Orb, EE, artifact recursion and a much more dependable tutor in Intuition. It also gains a stronger inevitably factor as the game goes on. A basic and a Gofy are more of a headache for Combo then it is for RUG. Granted, Maze is in both decks so... Yea.
Thanks - you've answered the question I've been trying to figure out how best to ask! I mostly play RUGx, and every time I try RG it feels like the deck is biting me in the ass. Obviously it's me, not the deck.
But you hit the nail on the head. Often my hand and board (and hence the game state) looks similar or identical with either deck, but with RG my deck doesn't "come to my rescue" like I'm expecting it to. This has caused me to mis-evaluate the situation I think, and I've paid the cost!
I still need to get the hang of RG, but at least you've helped me pinpoint precisely where I need to improve. I'd love to read a tutorial on RG specifically aimed at RUGx players, but this will be a big help when I reread, rewatch, and relisten various helpful resources.
I hope it's okay that I'm posting here about this. I'm not trying to compare the decks for any reason other than to help me become adept at both. I ported the quote from the other thread because it's currently a shit-show over there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sibelius
3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)
Is this necessary? We have three fetchable lands, so reusing fetches isn't such a big deal. Regardless, aren't we more likely to dredge the same one back than to draw another?
Besides, I'd almost rather bait the Needle! If it's on a fetch it's not on Stage. Similarly having multiples might bait an extraction against a weaker opponent.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sibelius
3 Fetch (different names guys, play around Needle please)
If someone needles my Wooded Foothills I will chalk that up as a HUGE win for me. It means they wasted a card that should have been naming a card that did something.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay_Gatz
Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.
Currently I run three or four with different names. But I wonder if we'd gain more by baiting these plays when they are wrong vs evading them when they are right?
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
@ Crimhead: I was referring to the 'bitchfight'. For what it's worth, I also see a lot of common cards (but not neccesarily the same strategy), and, of course, if you are playing or have questions for a particular branche: by any means, post in the appropiate thread! But this thrashtalking is just not doing anyone good. My apologies if I wasn't clear enough. Everyone's who wants to discuss about Lands (whichever one you choose) is welcome!
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay_Gatz
Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.
Again, if someone wants to use an entire card on my fetchlands - which aren't critical to my gameplan - I am okay with that.
Surgical my fetches? Great. That means they didn't use that card on my Punishing Fires, Loams, Stages or Dark Depths. Please, use your card on my noncritical pieces.
It's not that they won't "get me" but rather that it didn't do anything meaningful to the course of the game.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jay_Gatz
Its normally not the right play or even a good play but its not worth puting yourself in a situation where needle or surgical could end up hurting you when it is so easy to avoid.
True, and one of the reasons I play three different fetchlands. But I never had them extracted: they always went for Stage or Depths. I honestly don't think fetchlands are the prime targets :smile:
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Crimhead
Thanks - you've answered the question I've been trying to figure out how best to ask!
Glad to help. Sadly I feel it is unlikely that too many people will be posting a cross over primer. I know the ins and outs of RUG because I face it frequently and had a short stint testing it before I settled on Combo. There is a guy locally who plays RUG, a guy that use to play Jund Depths and then myself. So everyone here knows how to play against Lands, regardless of the stripe in question.
My own personal experience with the Control build was mirrored in frustration. I like it, I have all the parts I need to build it, but I dislike the slowness of Intuition over Gamble as an engine. I do love the Artifact recurring the deck can do, as proven by my drive over and over to try and make it work here. (A lost cause I have now given up on.)
I do not want to talk for others here, not sure what pulls anyone to a given deck, but speed and graveyard independence are this decks selling points to me. That and watching one Ghost Quarter strip 3k off the other side of the table never gets old.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chatto
True, and one of the reasons I play three different fetchlands. But I never had them extracted: they always went for Stage or Depths. I honestly don't think fetchlands are the prime targets :smile:
Agreed, I run a split anyway because it doesn't offer any downside to do so and it might offer some small upside in a game here or there. It might never come up, but it ain't hurting to plan for the moment it might have.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
10th place at SCG Chicago tonight had singletons of Engineered Explosives, Academy Ruins, and Riftstone Portal in the main.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Scott
Second time he finishes with an unconventional build. For me it's especially the sideboard that puzzles me, with 3x Grafdiggers Cage and 4x Deathrite Shaman.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Hey All, I've recently completed trading out of modern into RG Combo Lands, utterly adore the deck. Thanks to everyone for the primer, it really is a great help when getting started.
To date I've only played in 2, 30 player store events, and a bunch online, I'm hovering around the 50% win rate, which I'm thrilled with, I'm sure it'll improve with time.
I'm having real issue seeing the value in Manabond, whenever I draw it, I either have a grip full of spells I want to cast, or a hand with no combo pieces, and no way to get Loam going. It feels far to high variance for a deck that wants to go late game, and destroy all the happiness in our opponents lives(for 45 minutes).
To this end, I've recently swap out the Manabonds for a pair of Worm Harvest, and have been loving it. Am curious to hear experienced players opinion on this change.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Hey Horrain, welcome to the thread.
Keep the manabonds maindecked, basically you want loam for the digging/carddraw, but you need exploration/manabond to translate it into boardadvantage (and manabond has the most powerful synergy with loam this deck has to offer). You don't have to let manabond trigger, so you can skip the ability a turn to play whatever nonrecurring spell you have left in hand. Especially game1, since those spells are all 1cc (crop rotation and gamble). Things are different game2, since you'll board in stuff you might want to sandbag in your hand, so depending on the matchup you board the manabonds out.
Just keep playing with them for a little longer, you'll get accustomed to play around it's drawback.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
Sounds like at the moment you have yet to get Mulliganing down. The amount of times I have had a Manabond on the table without a Loam active is rather low. See Manabond is like your Exploration 5 and 6. It's a necessary part of the deck because it let's you break stride and start abusing your gains. Having one if those two Enchantments on the table really does make a hell of a difference.
The reason you want 6 of them though is because they are secondary to the game plan. You really want Loam or Gamble first. A hand without one of those two cards needs to be strong in other effects to be worth keeping. (Say Grove and Fire against Elves) Having 6 of the Enchantments let's you try and draw into one since they really change the way the deck handles. Since you can't fish them out of the grave it's best to have a greater chance of drawing one in the opening set up turns.
The Wurms though are a fine panic button if Miracles is common in your Meta. Making threats they just can't stop over and over again is fun. They are good to have around but not worth you Bonds. Try the flex slot and sideboard if you like them.
Re: [Deck] R/G Combo Lands
I almost always sideboard out Manabond. In fact I'm down to only one in the starting 60 and I don't regret it.
Welcome to the world of RG Lands. :)
