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You should probably treat it as you would in any other deck (kill it asap if you want to prevent their ramping, otherwise wait for something relevant to get to the grave). Personnally I bolt it on sight since it can not only gain them life but it gives them easy access to all their colors. This means PoP becomes worse if they can operate on basics all game.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
First 5-0 list featuring Chart a Course has been published.
In my limited testing, I found the card to be good. Curious that there hasn't been more buzz about it - is anyone else testing? Dylan Donegan also posted the Bob Huang list in an SCG article several weeks ago.
Is Hoppelars available to comment? Or does anyone have testing with the card?
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/789054#paper
Anyone else have thoughts about running 2 PoP with only 2 basics? The trade off here is running 2 USeas for 4 Cabal Therapy in the SB. I suppose this helps the combo matchup but you end up dealing a little more damage to yourself against the fairer decks and your mana base is a little worse against Wasteland/Blood Moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by korstructure
Oe, nice list! Been out of Legacy lately (work, family, new interest in Old School), but I dig this build a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by korstructure
I have done some testing with Chart a Course. It is okay, but it is just too slow. Being a 2 mana sorcery that has you take a turn off of your aggressive plan to draw 2 cards is just not worth it to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by korstructure
Going on a tangent, is anyone headed down to North American Eternal Weekend in a week? I am going down, and I am pretty sure that I will be playing UR Delver for the Legacy main event.
This is the list I want to run:
2 Grim Lavamancer
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 True-Name Nemesis
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Stifle
2 Spell Pierce
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Chain Lightning
4 Wasteland
4 Volcanic Island
3 Island
8 Fetchlands
My meta:
2-4 4c builds with and without Delver
2-3 Storm
2-3 Lands, Aggro Loam
1-2 D&T
1 Canadian Threshhold
2 Burn
1-2 Maverick, Nic Fit, Tier Decks
1-2 Esper Blade builds
1-2 Ubg builds with Aluren, Shardless, etc...
1-2 Sneak Attack
1-2 Reanimator with Show and Tell
My idea was I thought about an aggressive Ur build with Wastelands and Stifle against all the 3c-4c decks. For creatures I took Pyromancer and Delver with Snapcaster syngergy to Pyromancer. Lavamancer seems pretty good in this meta for Deathrite Shaman, D&T and as a consistent pinger. True-Name Nemesis is just an other beater., not sure about playing it but its definitely not bad in this list. 6 Removal with Bolt and Chain Lightning. In the manabase I wanted to run 3 Island because I definitely play 2 Blood Moons in my board for Lands, 4c, Storm and Stoneblade decks.
Do you think the deck looks solid? Should I keep the Wastelands and Stifle? Should I play this deck more aggressive with a Prowess list for my meta? How is Snapcaster, to slow for this build? How about Flusterstorm main instead of Spell Pierce for my meta?
greets
I'm no expert on non "Prowess" UR Delver lists but i've never liked them as much as their "better" cousins out of Grixis or RUG (Canadian Threshold is such a beautiful deck). Grixis usually does the YP/TNN thing better than UR and RUG is probably still the best Stifle/Wasteland build you could play although severly wounded by all those DRS running around.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
UR's advantages are it's efficient manabase, Price of Progress and the ability to close out games very fast. I think you should still focus on those points as best as you can.
Snapcaster is a fine card but can be quite slow sometimes. I used to run a single copy in my Prowess lists and sometimes he was better than the Stormchaser/Bedlam he replaced and sometimes worse.
I played at my LGS FNM Event yesterday, we had 22 people showing up and i registered the following list:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Monastery Swiftspear
3x Stormchaser Mage
2x Soul Scar Mage
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Chain Lightning
1x Forked Bolt
1x Fireblast
2x Price of Progress
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
4x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Volcanic Island
2x Island
1x Mountain
Sideboard:
3x Pyroblast
2x Flusterstorm
2x Surgical Extraction
2x smash to smithereens
1x Grim lavamancer
1x Submerge
1x Sudden demise
1x Blood Moon
1x Sulfuric Vortex
1x Price of Progress
I went 4-1 with the deck which is nothing special but i'm really happy/suprised about my results because i faced no less than 5 combo decks....
The whole LGS was filled with all sorts of combo and prison/stompy decks which is no meta where you actually want to be in straight UR colours.
My pairings:
1-2 against ANT
2-0 against Belcher (a good friend of mine, so i have lots of reps against Belcher)
2-1 against S&S
2-1 against S&S
2-1 against ANT (should have been 2-0 but i punted really hard because i miscounted my damage output and played out my hand incorrectly)
Both matches against S&S were similar, i lost game one pretty fast and drew tons of counters + delvers in the post board games and managed to sneak out a win by endstep bolting and attacking while countering their stuff.
Overall i think i got pretty lucky that my opponents sometimes only had medicore hands and i drew the right pieces at the right time but the games were all pretty close and very interesting.
Played the Chart a Course with sideboard Therapy version that's been sighted online at FNM. One change: I played TNN instead of Soul-Scar Mage. My thoughts:
Chart a course was fine. I cast it precombat once to get a prowess trigger, discarding a land. Every other time I cast it post-combat.
Therapy was fine. Interaction with Pyromancer is unbalanced as always.
I had an Underground Sea instead of a Volc in an opening hand (without a cantrip) and felt bad.
Against Stoneforge or Chalice decks, you are probably going to want more Smash to Smithereens. I didn't change the board, but I would probably go -1 Vortex to add a 3rd.
TNN was gross. Play this card.
hey guys, can somebody who is playing this deck pls look over my board. following list:
2 Blood Moon -> vs. 4c, Lands and such where this card is massive
3 Flusterstorm -> mainly combo
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tormod's Crypt -> 2 GY hate against Reanimator paired with Surgical Extraction so 4 cards against Reanimator and Dredge
2 Surgical Extraction -> as mentioned before
2 Pyroblast -> all of the blue decks, TNN, D&T etc.
2 Smash to Smithereens -> mainly against D&T, Equibment, Chalice of the Void...
1 Sulfuric Vortex -> vs. Control decks with Leovold and also good against slow Deathrite Shaman builds and D&T
1 Grim Lavamancer -> mainly in the mirror and vs. Burn, D&T
this is the list I am running:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Stormchaser Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
1 Echoing Truth
9 Fetchlands
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
In my meta are A LOT of 4c/3c Shaman builds, some with Delver, some controlish with Aluren, Levold and such. Also there are always 2-3 Sneak Attack lists + 1-2 Food Chain players. Another 2-3 D&T decks and single Lands, Aggro Loam, Dark Depths, Canadian Thresh, 2 Storm decks and 2 Burn decks. Currently I have practically 1 good card in my board against burn which is Grim Lavamancer, the rest is not good for this matchup. I build my board more against the other decks and leave burn aside. Furthermore Im looking forward to play GP Birmingham with this list. Anything to add for the sideboard? Some mistakes or obvious bad card choices? Im happy for any help, Im playing this deck for about a month now and I am not THAT experienced when it comes to the sideboard especially for big events such as GP Birmingham, some big MKM events in Prague, etc.
thanks in regards :)
I'm pretty sure the Flusterstorm's are good against Burn, too, and the only truly bad cards you have in the maindeck are Price of Progress, Force of Will, and Echoing Truth, so I'd think your board plan against Burn should be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
At any rate, I went 3-1 at my LGS with my Sligh list, losing 1-2 to Metalworker Stax, 2-0 vs Burn, 2-0 vs BG Ramunap LD, 2-1 vs Omni-Sneak. The list I used was posted in the Sligh thread in N&D, but I'd be happy to post the list here too if anyone is interested.
I would never leave home without a single copy of Fireblast, that card can be insane.
What is the main deck Echoing Truth for? In my opinion that card is pretty bad in the main deck. If you are looking to get rid of Marit Lage I would play Vapor Snag, and probably just in the sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
I would recommend playing a single copy of Spell Pierce over a Flusterstorm in the sideboard, trust me, it is great. You will want the versatility of Spell Pierce sometimes. Tormod's crypt seems decent, it is a solid spell for triggering prowess too.
Your list looks pretty solid.
Yeah Echoing Truth is not that good. A lot of people told me that. I thought I need at least 1 "out" for maybe Chalice or Reanimator but I guess Counters are doing the job fine. I didn't test Fireblast in the list yet but it seems quite strong so I go for -1 ETruth +1 Fireblast. Since Flusterstorm is quite expensive to buy I go for -1 Flusterstorm +1 Mindbreak Trap. Spell Pierce seems also good but I dont know what to cut currently. Thanks for the help :)Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
I updated the main deck and sideboard:
Main:
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Monastery Swiftspear
3 Stormchaser Mage
2 Bedlam Reveler
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Chain Lightning
2 Price of Progress
1 Fireblast
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Flooded Strand
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
2 Mountain
Sideboard:
2 Pyroblast
1-2 Blood Moon
0-1 Price of Progress
1-2 Flusterstorm
0-1 Mindbreak Trap
0-1 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Tormod's Crypt
2-3 Smash to Smithereens
1-2 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Grim Lavamancer
About my sideboard I still have some questions to the more experienced players with that deck:
1. Blood Moon & PoP split or 2 Blood Moon?
2. Same with Flusterstorm and Mindbreak Trap split against Storm or just 2 Flusterstorm? How about Pyrostatic Pillar against Storm decks? Good or bad choice?
3. How good is Surgical Extraction? I know its quite good against Reanimator but against which other decks do I board it in?
4. I had massive problems against Chalice of the Void, Umezawa's Jitte and Batterskull. Are 2 Smash to Smithereens even enough since these cards practically kill my entire deck and I cannot counter the equibment because they enter the battlefield via Stoneforge Mystic? Should I upgrade to 2 Sulfuric Vortex for this?
5. How about Pithing Needle in the board?
Thanks for all the help :)
I run 4 Smash to Smithereens in my sideboard, but I'm not playing a traditional build of UR Delver either. I wouldn't be comfortable with only 2 copies, though. Chalice and Batterskull are massive problems that need to be dealt with.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
I would go with 1 Price and 1 Blood Moon.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Don't like Mindbreak Trap in this deck. IMHO Flusterstorm and Spell Pierce will serve you better because they have more applications in other MUs, so i would go with 2 Flusterstorm or 1 Flusterstorm and 1 Spell Pierce. Pyrostatic Pillar can be great if you expect many combo decks like Storm and Belcher, so it could be ok as a 1-of but i would not run it in an unknown meta.
I like Surgical Extraction, it is obviously good against GY based decks such as Reanimator, Dredge and Lands(!) because you can stop their Life from the loam engine or exile Punishing Fire or their combo pieces. Keep in mind that they can cycle lands in response to your Surgical to get their Loam back or just use Grove of the Burnwillows to get P.Fire back in response too.
If Chalice decks are a problem, you could go up to 3 Smash or consider adding Abrade which is more versatile but sometimes you just loose to that card so i would not overcommit my sideboard just to beat chalice.
Had anybody played this deck ever -4 Daze +more burn or more creatures? I was wondering since Daze does not work that good with Prowess and 4 Force of Will is maybe enough for some relevant cards to counter.
Most of the time I read this thread I feel like TMWaP and I are the same person at least in deckbuilding <3. I also love a 1x Pierce 1x Flusterstorm split; second Flusterstorm sits in my binder. My board plan is just too weak against Sneak Attack and Animate Dead without that Pierce, I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan
I'm currently on 2x Smash 1x Abrade in the board. I feel like 3 outs to Chalice/Equipment are needed, but Abrade is nice because of the flexibility.
I'm currently running an oddball Burn-heavy list with 3x Goblin Guide, 3x Eidolon, and 2x Forked Bolt / 2x Fireblast (14 creatures / 14 burn spells). My cut to get there was not Daze, but Gitaxian Probe. I think with Stormchaser gone, Probe's ability to turn on Prowess for the 4x Swiftspear is pretty minimal, and cutting it opens up the possibility of playing Eidolon which is huge for this deck. I still like Daze as a way to buy the single turn you need to burn out a control/combo deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Only 4 Force of Will is not enough to stop combo decks. Also Daze is just one of the best early counterspells.Quote:
Originally Posted by IamHANDSOME
Daze can be used to counter your own spells to trigger prowess. You can even cast an expendable spell and Daze it just to pick up a Volcanic Island and replay the land if you seem to be short on red mana to get across the finish line.