HA! Oh man, I have Dystopia in my SB too! I'm getting old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
There's so much burn in that deck though. Won't the life loss from Dystopia....I'll try it tonight and see what what happens!
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HA! Oh man, I have Dystopia in my SB too! I'm getting old.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barook
There's so much burn in that deck though. Won't the life loss from Dystopia....I'll try it tonight and see what what happens!
Dystopia usually doesnt stay in play long enough for it to harm you. In 2 turns you take 3 perms and lose 3 life. A fair trade i think.
Six life, 1 + 2 + 3 = 6.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
Dystopia is one of blacks only answer to enchantments. The card advantage outweighs the life lost.
He said 2 turns. You play it, they sac perm, put an age couunter, lose 1 life, they sac perm, put an age counter, lose 2 life (3 total), they sac perm, sac at your upkeep. I guess he should've said 3 opponent turns.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sacul Kamadaka
Killemall is correct. Of course if you wanted to take 6 life for 4 perms thats fiine to. Reading is tech :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by KillemallCFHQuote:
Originally Posted by Sacul Kamadaka
He said 2 turns. You play it, they sac perm, put an age couunter, lose 1 life, they sac perm, put an age counter, lose 2 life (3 total), they sac perm, sac at your upkeep. I guess he should've said 3 opponent turns.
Oh and my testing with cabal therapy has proven that the card is better in the current metagame then null rod is so i will put them in and we will so how it goes on Saturday.
Heh, its nice to see some more Cabal Therapy love! I can't wait to hear the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
Well, anyway here is my latest list. It has been running smooth and everything has been working. I am not sure I could make a better build without the sinkholes. Even so, please give me some feedback while keeping in mind I don't have the money for sinkholes right now.
Artifact
3 x Umezawa's Jitte
Creatures
4 x Phyrexian Negator
3 x Nantuko Shade
4 x Sarcomancy
4 x Carnophage
3 x Rotting Giant
Draw
4 x Night's Whisper
Disruption
4 x Duress
4 x Hymn to Tourach
4 x Snuff Out
2 x Smother
Mana
4 x Dark Ritual
17 x Swamp
Sideboard
3 x Cabal Therapy
4 x Dystopia
4 x Engineered Plague
4 x Planar Void
LordEvilTeaCup:
How has running 18 lands worked for you? I'd think that with Jitte, Negator, and Shade, 20 would be more stable.
Its been working great actually. I don't think I could afford to take out any threats for lands due to me not playing the valuable sinkhole and wasteland. I am not running Dark Confidant (not sure if you wondering about that) because I don't think he is necessary without the said LD. So, I attempted to make a lower mana curve deck than usual and fit in more threats. I used to run Hypnotic Specter, and yes the 18 lands does NOT support both Negator/Shade/Jitte/Hyppie very well. However, once I took out the Hyppies and added in Snuff Out/Rotting Giant/Annurid, everything ran smooth. There is no mana screwed really unless someone blows up my lands. Dark Ritual shows up enough to power out things if necessary or pump up my Shades. Honestly, its like I don't really care about land either way. I get flooded my Shade gets big, I have one land and a Ritual I can still play pretty reasonably.Quote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Could somebody please explain why Carnophage and Sarcomancy are good in this deck? I thought the whole goal of the first few turns were to disrupt the opponent and then lay down a creature that they must, in turn, deal with before proceeding with their intended plan. It seems like the zombies are only good turn 1 and then suck for the rest of the game. I would much rather go turn one Duress, turn two Hymn or Sinkhole, and turn three Negator than play some zombies that are going to be outclassed on turn two. It seems like the deck is attempting to do too much in the first couple of turns of the game. I think the deck performs better with creatures that have more staying power.
Your points are pretty valid, but the wee little zombies have their strong points too. One, its always nice to have some good first turn plays (You are not going to have a Duress in your hand always). Two, Sarcomancy has fantastic synergy Negator (it counts as two permanents). Three, although Goblins are not as popular as they once were, they are still around and the little zombie dorks are a strong answer to first turn Lackey. Four, swinging with a jitted-up zombie turn two is yet another strong play (with a little help from Dark Ritual of course.) Five, they are efficient beaters and not always outclassed by the second turn. I am sure there are other reasons, but they have always been a solid player in my build at least.
Hmm. I guess it's just me, but I prefer bigger beaters backed by more disruption. I play the list from the first page of this thread, and I've tested it against traditional Suicide Black Decks. Even when they get down the zombies first turn, bigger guys like Nantuko Shade beat the shit out of them before they can make a difference. Nantuko Shade has won me so many games by himself that I was convinced not to use the zombies, but with Jitte, I could see how they would be good. I don't really want to water down the disruption suite, though. Maybe I'll just go over to the Red Death thread.
Heh, how the build does against the mirror match is not really that important. Suicide is not exactly the newest craze sweeping the nation. I would rather my deck be focused on winning against Threshold or Goblins, although admittedly the zombies are not so hot against Thresh. My Negator hearts them though :tongue:Quote:
Originally Posted by Baumeister
Tea cup: Nght's whiper is utter garbage. Confidant gives you more cards and it beats at your opponent.
Baumiester: 18 swamps is the right number if you dont run wastelands. Since teap cup runs shade i might consider running 1 more although i wouldnt know know what to take out for it thouugh. Oh and zombies are good because they apply dmage to your opponent. When you run eight you get ridiculous plays like 3 off of rit turn 1 or turn 1 jitte zombiie. Zombies are good because they are a cheap addition to your side of the board.
I actually played the mirror match once against the coming curse at the first hadley tournament. The whole matchup is dependant on who has the least amount of dead cards. Alo jittes are ridiculous.
Night's Whisper is not garbage. It draws cards now, instead of later. Also, my draw is not going to be bolted to death. I also run snuff out, and we all know how it sucks to draw that with Bob. Not a reason for most builds, but they also have synergy with Rotting Giant. Heh, the main reason is for price reasons though. Like I said, I am bargain shopping at this point and Bob is still a tad pricey. However, I think it is pretty reasonable to run the Whispers in their place as a solid budget alternative.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
BTW, my build prolly has the worst mirror matchup know to man:wink: Maybe as bad as the Ichorid matchup...
why not run bob instead of whisper?
Just look at the above post. I am not saying Night Whisper is better than Bob, but it has some advantages in my build (which is handicapped in many ways).Quote:
Originally Posted by lloydrage
LordEvilTeacup: I like Night's Whisper. Just be careful, you're going to be losing a lot of life to various cards you're running. I would up the Smother count to 4 since it nails pretty much good creature in the format. The exception in Goblins, which it still does a good job with. Swap out some snuff outs for them. Since you're running Shade (which should be upped to 4) you could probably run more lands and cut some other stuff. I would normally say Jitte, but your creatures need that to speed up the clock. Sinkholes are amazing, but they are damn expensive. Otherwise, it looks pretty good.
Snuff out is better then smother. I would keep your removal at 4 snuff and 2 smother.
Snuff out can't hit black creatures and it costs you 4 life or 4 mana. Now that every deck that can run it is running Tarmogoyf, Legacy has sped up even more. That means creatures that cost less. Snuff Out may have been better before, but I think Smother is the way to go now.Quote:
Originally Posted by technogeek5000
I don't quite understand your logic here. You are the right - the format is speeding up, due in much part to Tarmogoyf. I don't know about you, but in a format that is becoming faster, I'd much rather be playing creatures/disruption on turn 2 instead of holding back to kill an opposing goyf. If only there was a card that was completely free that allowed me to play creatures without disturbing my tempo at all. Oh wait, there is. And its called Snuff Out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Baumeister