Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Snap your unly untap effect? Why not just name Snap with the first Mage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Snap your unly untap effect? Why not just name Snap with the first Mage?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
Snap, Cloud of Faeries, and Turnabout are the untap effects. The first Meddling Mage probably should name Snap, as long as you have another. Then it should name High Tide. Unless there's a danger of them going off immediately and you need to stop that. The real problem card, obviously, is High Tide, but the good thing about the Spring Tide build is that they basically play twice as many Tides (Merchant Scroll) and twice as many Meditates (Ideas Unbound) so it's usually easy to fight through counters.
The other thing that Spring Tide can do against Gro, assuming the "Go off really easy" plan doesn't work is stall the game long enough to draw out all the counters, deprive the opponent of a hand, and then go off at leisure. I've done this several times as well, and while I prefer the going off quickly route, this is a viable option (although not so much against the Red splash).
Incidentally, why are we talking about Gro and Spring Tide on the Solidarity thread?
Congratulations to deep6er for the victory in the duel for duals :)
David, i'd like to ask how did you find your winning build: are 4 remand as useful as we thought? Were disrupt a suboptimal choice? (and by consequence, are 4 blast enough to compete against goblins?). Why the lone twincast instead of say, opt? Isn't this combination a bit more "casual" than, for example 3 opt? Speak to us, we're avid of info ;)
Meh, I'd figure that 9 ways to stop counters is better than 8, especially as those spells also help the combo plan. Twincast used to be a 3-of, but Remand took some of the places. With Remand, the deck also has a nice way to counter-stall the opponent in addition to being strong when going off. Twincast can be used to counter counters and it's great with just about any spell in the deck. But yea, I'll shut up now as I'm sure, David himself will explain it all in great detail.
Congratualtions, Dave!
Way to show all those people that Solidarity is not as dead as they thought. ;)
I can't wait to hear from you about the tournament and your winning deck. :)
Edit 1: Btw, SCG have the top 16 lists online, so here's a link to David's build:
http://sales.starcitygames.com/deckd...p?DeckID=15651
Edit 2: I think the most interesting thing about his list is his Sideboard. Only 4 Blasts against Goblins (and he still wins agaist the little green men in the Top 2...), 4 Disrupt, and no Words of Wisdom. I always thought those were quite important for the instant kill...
Nah, for the instant kill he still has Wish for Stroke. He only had to go off facing down lethal damage against WW and he turnabouted the guys and let the rule of law resolve. Don't forget Stroke is only 2 mana more for the instant kill, plus it's useful while going off.
Congrats Dave!! I'm excited that someone has shown that this is still a viable deck (although I've got to stick to Spring Tide for now) by winning a large tournament. I'm kind of dissapointed in the amount of Goblins we had, but Enchantress making a showing is awesome!
I always thought the Words of Wisdom was a useless slot with the Stroke already there. I actually love the board, but do you find Chain of Vapor is needed when you've got Echoing Truth there already?
You went down to 2 Brain Freeze in the main, and none in the Side, has that been okay for you?
And lastly, have you considered (or tested) Quicken/Merchant Scroll?
I guess, it should be enough, since you can Remand your Freezes to get the same effect. In this case, Remands count as additional Brain Freezes that cantrip, as well. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Lego_Army_Man
I'm very curios on how the Goblin match went. He was only running 4 Blasts in the sideboard, something that most people wouldn't dare to bring to a tournament with Goblins all over the place. :) Did the Remands make your Goblin matchup better? I can imagine, that they buy you quite some time before you need to go off.
Why did you play that one lonesome Twincast in the maindeck? I love that card in Solidarity and I never wanted to cut it (I love them when going off against Gro or something else with Meddling Mages - Twincast won me some games against Gro at the GP in Lille), but only one copy seemed to be a bit random. I know that you have one in the sideboard, but still...
How often did you bring in Disrupt, btw? Did you play (or even win) against Deadguy Ale/BW Confidant/Suicide/whatever?
There are a couple of things to address here.
Subject the First: 4 Blasts against Goblins. I've tested all number of blasts and it doesn't actually matter. 4 is the EXACT same as 8. Weird, huh?
Subject the Second: Remand. Fucking insane. Using it against goblins (first game, second game you turn those into blasts) buys you a turn. Remanding YOUR OWN SPELLS in the face of counterspells is important too. The obvious Remanding freeze allows me to cut a freeze and thus have less dead cards against goblins.
Subject the Third: Quicken + Merchant Scroll. Haven't tested it yet but I'm going to later.
Subject the Fourth: Didn't play against Pikula but my testing against it (with Disrupt and Remand) proves that it's 50-50 first game and 60-40 second game (my favor).
Subject the Fifth: One Twincast. The second Twincast is to be boarded in for control and Threshold and it's there to keep the dead cards against goblins down.
Subject the Sixth: Words of Wisdom. It sucks balls. Big, hairy, monkey balls. Balls the size of something inhumanly large and probably disgusting. (Which means that the card just isn't worth the SB slot.)
Subject the Seventh: Spring Tide. Just so everyone knows, we've tested spring tide against gro and found that it sucks just as much as Solidarity against it.
Subject the Eighth: Rushing River. It sucks. Don't play it.
Subject the Ninth: Izzet Guildmage. It sucks. Don't play it.
If anyone has any questions about my reasoning, feel free to ask. Just know that I've done a shit ton of testing and I would appreciate if you could at least give me the benefit of the doubt in most situations regarding Solidarity.
One more question: Did you play against Threshold in that tournament? Do you believe, Remand, Twincast and FoW give you enough control overall to have a realistic chance against W-base gros sporting Meddling Mage? Has Disrupt proven to be good in that MU?
EDIT: Well, I guess that's more than one question, but ones I'm intrigued by anyways. Btw, congratulations once more, and superb job bringing this deck to this point. It's one of the most elegant pieces I've ever seen.
I was just wondering when and why the name of this thread was changed from Solidarity to Solidarity (Reset High Tide)? Just because people give Solidarity a dumb name like Reset High Tide doesn't mean that we should agree with them. We don't need to get into the naming convention, but I was still curious as to why it changed?
The name of the thread was most likely changed in order for people newer to the site to understand what the deck discussion was about. Again, great job David.
I was also curious as to how you personally handle the BW or mono black discard situation. Did you just get lucky, or did you set up a concrete strategy?
What SenilePack said. Dave's name still takes precedence, which is why it's not listed as Reset High Tide (Solidarity). However, we've been getting a huge influx of new members lately, and we want the site to be as accessible to new members as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnwarA101
Deep6er, what do you usually take out of your maindeck in various matchups to make room for your sideboard? The maindecks is so tight, I can never figure out exactly what should and shouldn't come out in games 2 and 3 for things like Disrupt or the other Twincast.
Good job at the tournie.
Teen Titans has now been retired.
You don't want to have multiple chains in the board for decks that bring in teh hate? Like landstill with meddling mage or rule of law?
In these cases wouldn't Echoing Truth be better just in case they play 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAUDARD
But does it suck MORE? I would dearly like to know I don't have to find Resets to play a good Tide deck.Quote:
Subject the Seventh: Spring Tide. Just so everyone knows, we've tested spring tide against gro and found that it sucks just as much as Solidarity against it.
I guess it depends. I usually play Solidarity, Sebastian Ofner plays Spring Tide (and was the only one that made day 2 at Lille with it... unfortunately, we couldn't find a place to sleep and since I was really sick that day, we decided to drive home instead of winning the whole thing, but that's a whole different story... ;)).Quote:
Originally Posted by MattH
We both have a positive record playing against Gro (I played 2-0 against Gro at the GP). So I guess, as long as you know what you're doing, you're good to go either way. This matchup is probably 60-40 in Gro's favour if both players are good and have tested the matchup thoroughly. But since people are idiots, it's more like 50-50 and that's not really a bad matchup.
Seriously, I made the experience, that you can beat Gro with both decks... so I'm not sure which one would be better... If you don't want to buy Resets, you should play Spring Tide, though, since Solidarity doesn't have a significantly better matchup against Gro, as far as I know. :)
I'm not sure if this is the place to talk about it (although if it's not, I don't know what would be) but from my experience, Spring Tide is a better choice in our current meta. Solidarity plays slightly better against dedicated control decks, but Spring Tide is more consistant and plays about 1.5 turns faster. This makes it better against Aggro and Combo, which are much bigger in our current meta than dedicated control. Overall the matchups are pretty much the same, but I'd choose Spring Tide at this point. It's mostly up to you though.
If you can't find Resets, Spring Tide is just as viable as Solidarity.
Hello and congratulation to Deep6r!
I have a few questions:
-You have to play at least 6 spells in a turn because:
5x3+(5+3)*3=39
6*3+(6+3)*3=45
You Play that 6 spell than brain freeze remand and freeze to mill 45 cards. After that you play Cunning wish (that should normally one of the 6 spells I think) and Stroke with at least X=1.
So I count: 2(Freeze)+2(Remand)+2(Freeze)+3(Cunning Wish)+4(Stroke of Genious) that are 13 Mana only to kill your opponent without the 6 Spells…
I’ve tested Remand but it didn’t make the Deck faster its slower with a lot better Counter backup, I think that was your plan in the Black Control and Gro Meta! ????
But I cannot understand why you’ve cut the Words of wisdom? I mean it speeds a little bit up and why should you pay 4 Mana when you can pay 2 instead?
I have also a second question according to Evacuation in the Sideboard: I don’t understand this slot! Evacuation is to slow to get during a Goblin match and without High Tide it’s nearly impossible to play.
Now my question: Why do you have this in your sideboard? I mean when you can only play it with high tide it is a little bit better to kill your opponent with playing some spells and kill him with brain freeze…
I’ve heard people say that they only play Evacuation because it is the only way to bounce a Meddling mage with protection from blue… but the meddling mage always blockade the High Tide… So it is nearly impossible to play evacuation…?
When do you use this card? And why? Isn’t Turnabout cheaper and the similar solution?