I stopped boarding out FoF along time ago, when I was running Wish I would board out 1 in certain match up's but without Wish I can't think of any match where they would be bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
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I stopped boarding out FoF along time ago, when I was running Wish I would board out 1 in certain match up's but without Wish I can't think of any match where they would be bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Citrus-God
If you play the deck in this maner, you are playing it wrong. I've won a ton of games in which my oponent played a 2/3 Tarmogoyf in turn 2, and I played a Standstill in my next turn only to stablish a position five or six turns after. Then I cycle a Decree with some tokens or broke my own standstill EOT to force my oponent discards, play a swords to plowshares on Tarmogoyf, and play another Standstill or Humility for the win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Omega
It is not neccesary to have a empty board to drop standstill. In a lot games it is more important the time gaining than the three or four cards. Also Landstill play more lands than mostly decks, so you start discarding later than they.
Boarding out standstill is horrible, never, EVER do this (The only possible acception would be the straigh up UWb mirror where they run +1 decrees then you) In any matchup other then straight up mirror (or possibly the 3 crucible version o UBGw) landstill on the table is like ancestral recall targeting YOU, the only time its bad is if it gets countered.
Not always that; in the mirror, you can drop Standstill because you run Wasteland effects as removal against opposing Factories, so it's not always about DoJ.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
I always board out Standstills against Dreadstill actually, is that wrong?
course its wrong , man Your opponent Will side out its Standstills because he has no decrees and its suposed you develop better the game with a standstill in play than him . Conclusions : DOn't board out themĄĄQuote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
On the Source we require a better posting quality than this, and doubly so on the DTBF. Don't bother posting if you can't take the time to write properly. - Nihil Credo
I usually board out two, more if I have relevant cards to sideboard in.Quote:
Originally Posted by FredMaster
The reason is that, in the early game, Dreadstill with its 3 Wastelands can play without spells better than you, and if it lands a Top it will hit land drops much better than you. However, later on, when your Decrees and Eternal Dragon start mattering (let alone Crucible of Worlds), the tides begin to favour you, and playing Standstill becomes a much safer bet.
Because of this, I consider Standstill as a late-game card (that just happens to cost two mana) and accordingly play fewer copies of it.
@Peli: Whether Dreadstill keeps its own Standstill or not is completely irrelevant to the question: "Will I want to play a Standstill here?"
This is the problem, standstill is a "When theres not pressure" card. People not being able to analize this is why the card isnt as good to some.Quote:
Because of this, I consider Standstill as a late-game card (that just happens to cost two mana) and accordingly play fewer copies of it.
If your boarding it out and its not a matchup like... dredge (HEY I GET TO PLAY DDD AND YOU WANT TO AS WELL!!! lol) Ill grant you in the Dredge MU, you board them out, but I cant think of any other matchup where I would consider it.
Please detail your argument a bit more. Do you disagree that, against Dreadstill, your Standstill is considerably likely to misfire if played before turn 5 or so?Quote:
Originally Posted by undone
Having tested this matchup extensively I can say that I've almost never experienced a Standstill problem playing against the Landstill player. If they drop it chances are you can win under it or match them. Boarding out at least 2 seems to be correct. They have a decree edge under the Standstills but you have the Wasteland advantage to most builds. So it's really even to be fair.
The 3 Wasteland, 4 Factory package from Landstill should match about even against Dreadstill and still be able to make consistent land drops.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roodmistah
Actualy Given the option I would always play it on turn 2 if the board is clear, they have between 4 and 8 cards that matter. You have between 7 and 10. however the differance is, you want to get to late game you want to wait and sit, they dont.Quote:
Please detail your argument a bit more. Do you disagree that, against Dreadstill, your Standstill is considerably likely to misfire if played before turn 5 or so?
There are situations where you drop it with nothing, they have 3 factorys and beat the crap out of you. But this is the exception to the rule.
Keep the following in mind, factorys block other factorys ALL DAY, they need to draw 2 to beat 1, where as 1 decree can stop them hard.
Quote:
Having tested this matchup extensively I can say that I've almost never experienced a Standstill problem playing against the Landstill player. If they drop it chances are you can win under it or match them. Boarding out at least 2 seems to be correct. They have a decree edge under the Standstills but you have the Wasteland advantage to most builds. So it's really even to be fair.
Keep in mind the following, if your playing draw go, and not dieing litteraly right this second, your winning. You can wait, they cant. You have game breakers they dont. I do play 2 wastelands so I cant speak for every one but my threat count under standstill is
2 Decree
4 factory
2 wasteland
1 tolaria west
Vs 4 wastes 4 factorys.
Yours are varied and decree is just better. Yes rarely you will misfire but that is tipicaly not standstills fault its shufflings fault. You have a higher better threat count.
many people discount the tolaria but its just as good as a factory.
Seriously If standstill is in play, and you didnt play it while the board was cloged/deeded, your fine. Standstill misfireing is a rare occurance because waiting for standstill to build a mana base is a BAD thing.
I think the crucial point where I have to disagree with you is how long it takes to reach the late-game by naturally making land drops. Considering that Wastelands are going to eat a few of both players' land drops, it takes until at least turn 9-10 before your Decrees of Justice actually become gamebreaking (4+ tokens); in that interval, an advantage of a single extra Factory can, if not outright kill you, at least bring you within Goyf striking range.
Also, if Dreadstill drops a Top, I hope you'll agree it's better to just forget about Standstill.
(I also run -1 Wasteland compared to your configuration, but that's less relevant.)
Eternal Dragon also is a threat under standstill. When you have the 5 mana to reuse it, you will drop a land every turn, than it is a huge advantage beacuse when the standstill breaks you will win counters wars. Also it helps Decree to be larger.
I usually start recurring Dragon when I hit 7 mana. Leaving yourself tapped out against good players willing to break Standstills suck. Although, this has not happened to me against Dreadstilll, I've been seeing this often used against the Landstill mirror.Quote:
Originally Posted by DuKeLiO
I tipicaly hoard forces in hand so that the moment I hit 5 i start dragon recursion. Top in play is FAR (not that top isnt great) less relivant then dragon being cycled each turn Dragon is +1 CA every turn on the turn, top is +3 CQ every turn.
Also with the factory beats, all you have to do is slow them, if your at say 8 at the end when the first standstill is cracked that is FINE, provided you dont die the turn after its broken, you should win easily.
Hi everybody!
It's my first post here... so please, I hope you'll understand that my english is not very fluent. :laugh:
Here is my list:
Lands: 23
3 flooded strand
2 polluted delta
3 tundra
3 plains
1 academy ruins
4 mishra
1 Underground sea
1 scrubland
1 tolaria west
3 island
1 wasteland
Creature: 1
1 eternal dragon
Spells:
4 force of will
4 counterspell
3 Decree of justice
3 engineered Explosives
2 humility
3 wrath of god
1 crucible of worlds
2 cunning wish
4 standsill
4 sword to plowshares
4 brainstorm
2 ponder
My Sb looks like that:
3 Blue elemental blast
1 pulse of the fields
1 slaughter pact
1 return to dust
3 extirpate
4 meddling mage
1 engineered plague
1 enlightened tutor
The new card in this deck is ponder. It's a great card, and I think it's better than Fact or fiction (even if i love this card...).
This list seems very classic. But I have some questions...
Wasteland Vs Dust Bowl? I don't know why some people prefer dust bowl. Can anybody explain me?
I'm running for 3 DoJ, do you think it's too much? If I choose to cut one, i will probably add a ponder/Nevynral Disk or anything else...
I want to know what do you think about the SB. I think Plague can be cut to add another Beb-like (for the both Mu's against Goblin and Agro-loam).
Thx for reading me.
Dust Bowl is better because itīs a soft-lock on itīs own. The only time you need waste-a-like effects is in the mirror and against Slow-Control Decks. In those Matchups itīs far better to sacc some "bad" lands like a Plains to destroy for example a Factory. 3 Decrees is okay, 2 is the minimum. My sideboard actually looks like this:
4 Beb
3 Extirpate
4 Meddling Mage->sometimes 2 Ajani 2 Runed Halo depending on where I play
1 Return to Dust
1 Pulse
1 E.Tutor
@ Tafit
1) I personally find wasteland to be better, it is better against tempo decks , and it works great under crucible. Dust bowl is only good against slow decks, which landstill should crush anyway.
2) I think you should run at least 2 wastelands, one wasteland is really not enough, even w/ tolaria waste.
3) You should run at least 2 crucible of worlds, it is a fantastic soft lock w/ wasteland.
4) 3 Doj seems too much, I would probably replace Doj with a humility.
5) Ponder doesn't seem that great in landstill. The sorcery speed of ponder just doesn't seem to fit the instant spell-base of landstill. Also, I think that cunning wish provides better card quality than ponder does. It seems better to replace one of your ponders for a Cunning wish. The other one should probably be replaced for another underground sea, 1 just doesn't look enough.
Ponder is okay. And Crucible isnīt that great. I use to play 0-1 cause itīs only necessary against Landstill/Dreadstill. If you face a tempo deck itīs not good to sacc one of your lands just for doing nothing. Destroying one land wonīt stop any tempo-based-archetype. Your list is fine as it is.