Sounds good. You must have started after I sort of took a back seat to playing.
Seth
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Sounds good. You must have started after I sort of took a back seat to playing.
Seth
Sounds good. You must have started after I sort of took a back seat to playing.
Seth
I assume so. I've heard "Seth" and painter talked about when I started playing it. Especially when I adopted Koth.Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Good day all,
So Yesterday night I went to my weekly legacy night in Halifax. This is my 3rd time ever playing legacy in cardboard. In the past weeks i have picked up most of painter and thankfully we allow proxies.
This was a three round tournament 16 players out and here is a quick report of how it went for painter (I'm a horrible writer so bare with me.)
Round 1 - Reanimator
So my towns local legacy guru, who first told me about this site was my first round. this was not a good start to the night...or so i thought. Round 1 starts and i land a second turn moon, this doesnt stop him but it slows him down. A resolved painter with some REBs sort out the other mana he could use and the game is taken down by koth laying down beats.
Game 2 i side out Jaya and a few SDT for Grafdigger's and my 4th bridge. My opening hand is city of traitors, blood moon, mountain, phyrexian revoker, bridge,simian spirit guide and cage. solid keep. turn 1 cage, turn 2 phyrexian revoker on the grisslybrand. within a few turns i draw into the combo
2-0
Round 2 - Fish
Game 1 Turn 2 combo....gg
game 2. this probably went maybe 6 minutes, as we are both fast players. i kept a hand of rebs and a sudden demise (from the side). so i reb a few lords as he tried to cast them, land a revoker (on vial)and when he goes off enough to get 3-4 fish in play I use sudden demise to clear the way for revoker to take him to town. Sudden demise was not expected by any one, and many legacy officios didn't know what the card did... it was great in 2-3 games
2-0
Round 3 is not worth reporting on, playing BUG and i just couldn't catch a break, first game i mulled to 4 and that didnt go well, game 2 he just had all the right answers.
Over all I love the deck. No one else is playing this in my meta so its great fun and people love to see it in action. Thank you all for the hours of reading i have done on this deck and look forward to trying the strawberry shortcake mod in the future
*** I'M BACK BITCHES!!! *** Haha :D
Or i could say: Hey guys, glad to be back!!
It's been a loooong time overdue, but now, I've gotten a hold of a new set of Recruiters, and later today, I'm going to a private 16-person tournament, where I hope, that no one sees iPainter coming :D
I haven't been following in on the thread, and I'm not gonna jump directly into a decklist right now, but again.... I'm back and I'm gonna be active in this thread, so we can see some more grinding in Denmark :D
@Ish- I laughed at that as if I'm a mythical beast or something.
Hopefully I'll get my list up here tom before I play on Sunday. I will say that the EE has been good in practice
Seth
Haha lol! Tomorrow should be fun! Maybe they'll play some video game boss music when you walk in to let me know your there :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sroncor1
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please for the love of god post results of the mirror match, should it happen. That's been like a black hole in my legacy experience.
Painter is a deck that has piqued my interest for quite awhile, I finally decided to buy most of the pieces on mtgo and put it all together.
Something I keep wondering about in most of the lists I've looked at is the number of Tormod's Crypts or Relics in the board. I'm assuming they're there for two reasons: to answer decks running re-shuffled creatures like Emrakul so that we can still combo off, and just general answers to graveyard-based opponents (reanimator, dredge, etc.)
Has Faerie Macabre ever been discussed for this function? The upside is that it can't be countered, and can be cast with no lands on T0, but the downside is that it's a reactive answer that can be lost to discard, so I guess it depends on if you expect more discard or more counters from the relevant decks. I suppose Painter is stronger against blue in general, so perhaps discard is a bigger concern anyway, but still I'm not sure.
I'm just imagining scenarios against something like Sneak & Show G2, they know you're on Painter so they're going to hold up counters strictly for your graveyard hate as they know you can't win through their Emrakul, they can ignore your combo-related activity.
Just an idea, I haven't tested yet, and I'm assuming this is something that has already been discussed or that I'm missing the point of the current graveyard-hate found in most lists, if anyone can fill me in it would be much appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortox
Yes this idea has been discussed. In the old thread and briefly in the new thread. Macabre doesn't really do anything. It stops dredge or reanimator for a turn and most likely you'll have to recruit for it meaning it's known. Against sneak and show it can't remove 3 or 4 emrakuls so you lose. Combo is not your Plan A vs sneak. Getting a bridge down is
To embellish further, decks like Reanimator and Tinfins that you could potentially board in Macabre against run black. This means that A) you'd likely have to Recruiter up a Macabre, costing you 3 mana and a card, and giving the opponent perfect information, and B) they run black discard, so with that perfect information they'd likely neuter your GY hate.
Just run Bridges and Grafdigger's Cage. They both do what you want in spades.
Well, I participated in a 16 man tournament today and as always... Painter is the way to go....
By not having had access to the deck for the past six months, it's not a deck that people tend to think of.... Which is good for me...
We played 5 rounds of swiss and went into the top 4 on an insanely close tiebreaker situation! :O
Anyways, here's a short recap of the tourney..: :)
1. Round:
Playing against EsperBlade, piloted by a friend, so our games are always high paced and funny :)
I lose 1-2, after 3 close games, that were defined by his ability to naturally draw into his basiclands.. That sucks, when my gameplan ended up being all in on a moon effect and then get my hand picked a little apart, by his t-seizes and inq's..
0-1
2. Round:
After seing what i'm about to play here, i'm thinking i'm over and out... U/R Delver/burn.... Not a fav MU for me, as he's notoriously known for packing a mono R burn deck, with a little brainstorm and daces rammed into it... But he's trying to adapt to a more combo oriented metagame, so balls to the walls and let's do this...
Turn 1, I lead out with a city of traitors, chrome mox with Jaya imprinted and i now face a serious dilemma... Do i go for painter or do i try to play safe and throw the grindstone into the fray... I go for the first, and yes, he throws a FoW in the painters direction... but i have the red version of FoW, which leads into him playing land, passing the turn, me drawing a land and combo off turn 2 :D
Game one is more or less a repeat. He can't find gas to kill me and my scorepad reveals that i harmed myself for 11 damage, before killing him..
1-1
3. Round and getting down against U/W Delver.... Haven't seen a version like this before, but his gameplan was apparently to stick a delver or TNN as soon as possible and protect it via counterspells and StP's.. I get him to game 3, before he picks me apart.. I lose the match 1-2
1-2
Round 4, playing BUG Delver....
Moons, baby.... Moons :D i win 2-1, the game i lost was due to a FoW on my turn 1 moon effect :D
2-2
By this time, i actually have a shot at getting into top 4, but it requires for me to win my game, the leading player (The Esper player i played, round 1) winning, and a third game to draw..
Guess it's my lucky day and i end up, bossing my way into top 4, by the closest margin possible :D
Sitting down against Punishing U/W/R, i'm thinking one thing... Forcing blood moon through turn 1 and hope for the best.
But nooooooo, he has answers to all of the blood moons game 1 and 2, game 1 is a beating with a phyrexian revoker and a couple of recruiters, game 2 i got nothing really... But game 3 provided me with a possibility of chaining all 4 recruiters into play, to gain card advantage and beating him to death with them :D
3-2, and into the semi :)
Semifinals: I get paired against the Esper player from round 1, and the stories repeats itself, sadly enough :( 3 close games, with him ending up at the finals, taking home first place...
Anyhow :D God, i've missed this deck! When i was sleeving this deck, i just went back to my stock list and it just works!!
Replacing Lightning Bolts with Gitaxian Probes, gives you so fucking much more game against combo and FoW decks.... If you're running the mono R list, i can only recommend you trying G-Probes and see if it helps you :)
And obivously my report wouldn't be much of a report, if I forgot the decklist :P
Mainboard:
4x City of Traitors
4x Antient Tomb
10x Mountain
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Imperial Recruiter
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Blood Moon
3x Pyroblast
3x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Chrome Mox
4x Grindstone
3x Red Elemental Blast
2x Lotus Petal
Sideboard:
1x Magus of the Moon
4x Thorn of Amethyst
2x Faerie Macabre
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Pyroblast
1x Red Elemental Blast
2x Shattering Spree
Overall I'm happy with the list, I am however a little unsettled on the missing removal in the form of bolts... The only thing I see being cut for bolts is probes, but as I mentioned in the previous post, I'm quite happy with them, even though i have to pay life for them.
In the danish meta, there's a lot of Delver decks, mixed with a fair amount of ANT decks. I found myself boarding the thorns in, most of the matches as it slowed down my OP's countersuite..
That being said, I'm feeling a little rusty, so advice is more than welcome :)
EDIT: Have anyone considered Lodestone Golems? :)
You're pretty all-in with that list, eh? 18 lands, 7 moons, 7 accelerators. Does Probe glue that strategy together? I'd assume it might because of the perfect information you get off of it.
And Lodestone Golem is a different deck. You don't have that many artifacts. And why is Bridge no where to be seen?
I've never found 20-21 lands to be the "shit" for this deck. And it doesn't suit my playstyle anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Yeah, probes - at least for me - was the answer to this. You have to remember, I litteraly copied Kim Grymers list from GP Amsterdam and worked on it ever since.
Lodestone Golem was a suggestion from a friend, stating that it's a thorn on legs, and it's a formidable beater. I don't know, i'm inclined to try it at least :) Since i went into beat down mode 60% of the time yesterday :D
The "eldrazi issue" isn't really a big problem these days in Denmark, so i figured, cutting them for the bolts, to see if they can resolve any creature/reach problems i might run into :)
Hell, I wanna play Painter in a meta where there is no Eldrazi issue, or even play Eldrazi too for that matter...
I see what ya mean. There's little room to work with if it already suits your play style and it fits your meta. Maybe it'd help the rest of us to describe your local/regional meta in detail and then present your list as one that is best suited to go to battle
I can try ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
Generally, decks like SneakShow, Mono R Sneak and the likes are limited to one or two guys, that doesn't appear on a regular note. There are however 3-4 Omniscience players, but they tend to rely solely on the Release the Ants thingy ::O
There's quite a few storm players, which leads me to the 4 Thorns in the SB. Then the rest is most of the time, Delver decks in varying forms, mostly BUG (Team America), a couple of miracle decks and that's about it :)
But one thing, they aaaaaaaaaaallllll have in common....: They don't like the moons, like we do <3
Quick update, took top 8 at that tournament for the delver deck in Maryland today. I punted the last two rounds. But I was pretty happy with the list and a top 8 out of 114. I'll post my updated list and report in the next couple days. I'll also try to add some thoughts to some of the ideas on the board.
Btw I actually think Lodestone may be good in the white splash. As crazy as it sounds it's also one of the most intriguing ideas I've heard in a while.
Seth
Seth: Great to meet you yesterday. Looking forward to innovating further.
Took mono red to the same UWR prize tournament yesterday. My results were far from top 8 worthy. Got paired against OmniTell round 2... :( 20 redblast is about the right number to have for that matchup. Unfortunetely my list only ran 7 in the 75.
Talking alot with Seth about the white splash. I think I'm going to go back (I tested it for a few weeks) to it and give it another go. Blood Moon is auto win in some matchups, but in the others (which were my pairings yesterday) the e-tutor package would have been much stronger.
Well, just ordered 4 Lodestones, gotta try it out :)
Anyone other than me an Seth, considering Lodestones? :)
I've took painter to an event Sunday, and had a blast. The only thing I did differently is I ran 3 Firebolt, 1 Seal of Fire. It's not reusable, but it is tutorable. I liked it.
Hey guys,
I currently have a fairly standard iPainter deck, but I generally play more casual matches (don't want to expend too money for a casual deck) and want to tweak the deck a bit. The blood moon strategy isn't too useful when playing casual matches, and I kind of want to weaken the deck a little. I thought about throwing in some Lightning Dragons because I like the art and because it's not a very good card.
I've also thought about putting in more than 1 welder and maybe throw in some tangle wire or something of that nature.
But I'm open to any suggestions, thanks.
If you wanna weaken the deck, get rid of the Moon effects?Quote:
Originally Posted by Indent
Yes, I was thinking of substituting the moon effects with something else.
Take the discussion here and post a link.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/f...d-Budget-Forum
You want to make the deck weaker but it's too similar to the other thread derailments of 'how can I build without recruiters'
This thread is for fine tuning optimal builds and testing for competitive events.
In short though, water down the combo or run a worse one like Kiki twin, run some bad recruiter targets for fun, and don't focus on locking your opponents out of the game
I placed 2nd in a 48 man tourney using this list:
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Magus of the Moon
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard Task Mage
2 Koth of the Hammer
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei's Divining top
4 Blood Moon
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
10 Mountain
4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Blood stained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
1 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard
3 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pyroclasm
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Manic Vandal
1 Vexing Shusher
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Match ups
Esper Stoneblade (win 2-0)
Sneak and Show (win 2-0)
Dredge (win 2-1)
Sneak and Show (loss 0-2)
Merfolk (draw)
Miracles (win 2-1)
Quarterfinals
Patriot (win 2-0)
Semifinals
Merfolk (win 2-1)
Finals
Elves (loss 0-2)
Nice one :) How did the 2 MB Koth behave? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by thebastard2
I'm going to GP Paris next weekend. After seeing Seth an Kap'n do well with the deck at a SCG Open, I decided to give the white splash another shot. I did want to address the issues I had with it, namely the mana consistency. I think the white splash is really strong if you can consistently cast the white cards. It also gives you some great additional sideboard options.
I've taken the lists from Kap'n and Seth and took what I liked from each of them. I also added some white mana sources (6 fetch, 2 plateau and 3 petals). I really don't want to lock myself out of casting the awesome options I bring in - is it blasphemous to run 3 petal / 2 SSG? Petal has been great for me to cast white spells even with a blood moon out.
I really liked the RIP + Helm combo out of Seth's board. I'm gladly upgrading my Crypts to RiP (I didn't like the crypt that much anyway), and the alternate win-con is just one extra slot from there. I also cut a firebolt for an extra Thorn as I encounter a lot of Storm players over here. I chose to run the 3rd Thorn over a Trinisphere because I really want to be able to play it on turn 1.
This is what it currently looks like, anything I should consider changing?
// Creature (16)
2x Goblin Welder
4x Imperial Recruiter
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Magus of the Moon
4x Painter's Servant
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Simian Spirit Guide
// Artifact (11)
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Grindstone
3x Lotus Petal
2x Sensei's Divining Top
// Land (20)
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Arid Mesa
3x City of Traitors
1x Great Furnace
4x Mountain
2x Plateau
2x Scalding Tarn
// Instant (9)
3x Enlightened Tutor
4x Pyroblast
2x Red Elemental Blast
// Enchantment (4)
4x Blood Moon
// Sideboard (15)
1x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Ethersworn Canonist
3x Firebolt
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Helm of Obedience
1x Koth of the Hammer
1x Manic Vandal
3x Rest in Peace
3x Thorn of Amethyst
I ran 4 petal / 1 ssg on Sunday. I liked the extra petals given I ran 3 welders. 3/2 seems fine
You forgot the 4 Imperial Recruiters :) Nice finish I was your 2nd round opponent lolQuote:
Originally Posted by thebastard2
I might consider adding a basic Plains.Quote:
Originally Posted by japz
I don't think you need a basic plain. Only once over the past 16 rounds of sanctioned play did I need a white source with E tutor in hand. But I had a moon and was able to leverage that for the win. Once you practice with the deck you will get good at when to fetch, what to fetch, and when to slam moon. Against unknown opponent I will rarely play first turn moon anymore. I may cut the great furnace for a mountain. The last two times I played I always held my breath when I played it and passed the turn. Wasteland is everywhere and I lost my last 3/4 games due to wasteland on furnace. Too risky I think right now. Stabalizing the mana while allowing E tutor to function is most important. I don't feel that the minimal interactions with Welder are worth it. I only run two welders though.
More thoughts to follow and a report from the last event. Work has just been brutal.
Seth
Anyone going to the GP this weekend? I'd like to discuss a few ideas with people attending.
I'll be at the SSG Open in Somerset this weekend.
Simian Spirit Guide Open??? What's that? :OQuote:
Originally Posted by NormalGuy
So, I am new to this forum and have just caught myself up through the previous several pages. I am a long-time legacy player, best known for playing dredge, but this deck has interested me lately. I like the potential lock-outs and linear strategy. I just finished buying the deck (albeit with the foil I.R.'s and some other foil pieces, couldn't find originals anywhere). I'm noticing there is a lot of potential variation on the deck. I do really like the idea of the white version with a couple of tutors. I just have a couple questions:
1. Why not more petals instead of monkeys? this way you are more likely going to be able to play your tutors. Is it just the surprise factor of the monkey?
2. As for alternate win cons, I'm seeing Koth, stoneforge package, RIP/Helm combo and potentially lodestones. Some lists are playing multiples of these which seems like too much dilution. I like the idea of Koth as it gets around a bridge in play and it's a Planeswalker, so it's a little harder to deal with in legacy. But stoneforge and Helm combo are tutorable, which is nice. I like the idea of comboing off of a miracle player's RIP as well. I also noticed that the guy who T8ed the SCG only had one Koth in the SB, so is it even necessary?
3. What's the general thought on welder? In my little testing so far it seems really strong in response to removal of combo pieces. I'm currently running 3, which is more than most it seems. Just wondering why it's not more popular.
4. Any more ideas on the jund matchup? And how would anyone ever beat burn? Witchbane Orb?
5. bridge vs peacekeeper? replacing one bridge for the tutorable peacekeeper seems strong but wondering what people's experience has been? Too easy to get rid of? that would be my biggest concern.
6. 19 land and 5 extra mana sources the general consensus? Is it heresy to not play any monkeys, that is 20 land and 4 petals?
Thanks for your help. You guys seem to have invested a lot of time into the deck so I appreciate your feedback.
Well...Quote:
Originally Posted by drude1
1) Personally, I think it's the respectable players own choice, how he runs the split. The good thing about SSG is, that it doesn't get countered (I don't know if this is why we play it). But for my own experience: The SSG provides the opportunity to make a red FoW :D
2) I can't really talk about the white version, since I only played it once and i thought it was horrible, but i'm gonna try out the Lodestone situation and i'll post results, when i've done some tourney's with them in a couple of weeks time :)
3) I've never been a fan of it, especially now, with so much -1/-1 around (Golgari Charm/Zealous persecution), but for sure, if you can build your deck, so you can protect the little goblin fella, his potential is as powerful as in some vintage decks :)
4) I'd say either Leylines in the SB or Thorn effects (maybe even Trinispheres). As long as you set them back a couple of turns, i would think, we'd have the advantage? :)
@drude1- SSG and petal are very close. The key is that sometimes he is a mana source, a shitty beater, a chump blocker, and tutorial at that. That is why some amount of them are needed. Goblin Welder is the strongest single card in the deck. It is sort of a role player for us but in terms of absolute power it is the only potential broken card in the deck. As a result you should run some. He invalidates counters, removal, or soaks up targeted removal to save your more important creatures. I will often times throw him out first bc good players know to fear him and if the Fow him then you know the coast is clear for painter and friends. I often times let people kill him and rarely protect him. Even though he is super strong you don't really need him.
Peacekeeper is there as a tutor able answer to elves, dredge, empty the warrens, and Eldrazi game one. Sometimes you can't dump your hand fast enough to hope bridge protects you there. She does however. I have always liked her, won many times bc of her, and she I'd easily sided out in games where she doesn't matter. RIP isn't so much an alternative win as the best graveyard hate you can play. I threw a singleton Helm in bc why not, and sometimes you can win with it. But RIP is important bc it murders dredge, reanimator, and allows you to ignore Eldrazi when going through the combo. Being able to E tutor inresponse to Cabal Therapy for it is especially satisfying.
I will say all I said about Lodestone is that it is an interesting idea. I made a post a while back about why tutoring for narrow hate is a bad strategy. Tutoring for RIP against graveyard decks is good bc if it sticks the game is over. Tutoring for a piece of disruption against storm is less good bc it slows them down but you decreased your speed, consistency, and didnt actually move yourself closer to victory. At least Golem is a credible threat and the ability to put pressure on storm and the like is nice. Not sure if he is worth it or fast enough though. As an aside, Wizards was super lame for printing such a dumb card. Mark Rosewater is an asshat.
Seth
But Seth...
The beauty about the lodestone is that you get to cast the combo without penalty :D
That's not his point. The tutor you cast finding lodestone could have been used to find the other half of the combo is.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4