Guttersnipe can get there. Pretty easily. After sb if you're really afraid of chalice on 2 then you can play some other artifact removal. I'm not terribly worried about it as it costs 4 mana and I can still win through snipe.
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Guttersnipe can get there. Pretty easily. After sb if you're really afraid of chalice on 2 then you can play some other artifact removal. I'm not terribly worried about it as it costs 4 mana and I can still win through snipe.
Chalice on 2 isn't an auto-loss, not by a long shot, as long as you have access to at least 1 maindeck Empty the Warrens. The spells are countered, but still count towards storm count. Guttersnipe is my next test maindeck, I finally picked up a set, and that is also a way to win through Chalice at 2. Just play your Magma Jets (sans scry) and dome them over several turns.
Is Blood Moon de-facto not worth slots to anyone? Am I the only one still playing them in the board? Playing against Czech Pile and Bug Leovold a t1 Blood Moon is game over. Against many other decks its good, but not great. Maybe this is where I finally cut those for other hate cards?
if you're running guttersnipe, chalice for 2 stops burning wish, ruby, and manamorphose. possibly abrade after sb as well. you should be able to kill them with 2 damage pings. you can also side in the grapeshot if you fear this, as the storm copies will hit regardless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Safety
i dont like blood moon in the sb, but if you have a high % meta of 4c decks and lands decks then i see no problem with running blood moon. across most of the field i dont think the payoff is worth it. i'd focus on just making the deck better in general (ignore me with my random coin flipping card, i'm just having fun with that). or you can focus on the decks that are a bit more difficult (like ANT/TES/Reanimator), as they fall over to hate cards much more easily than the grindy matchups.
also if you have a meta full of elves players feel free to take an auto win by sleeving up your Ali from Cairo
My experience with non-Eldrazi stompy decks is that you have plenty of time to burn them out with Guttersnipe, not to mention the soonest they can have Chalice@2 is likely turn 2. So we win t1, lol. Stompy decks are going to put Chalice @1 99.99% of the time anyways, they usually play a healthy amount of 2 drops as well.
I think siding different cards than Blood Moon is a good idea to test. There's plenty of options that could be good.
i'd like to test out pyromancer ascension again in this deck
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Past in Flames
4 Pyromancer Ascension
3 Lightning Bolt
12 Mountain
3 City of Traitors
the sb could have a dark petition, which wish -> petition with an active ascension should be a guaranteed win.
assume ascension active in play:
cast Burning Wish getting Dark Petition and Past in Flames. Cast DP (BBBBBB remaining). Get Lotus Petal + LED. Cast PiF. (BBBRRR after LED post PiF) Cast Dark Petition again, Getting BBBBBB. Fetch up Manamorphose + BW. play both. Cast Burning Wish. Get Tendrils + Anything. (this is without a medallion).
Just a thought. I'm also pretty interested in casting Act on Impulse with an active Pyromancer Ascension. Anyone else interested in testing this?
It seems like a slower path, honestly. Broken, yes, but slow while making opponent's Abrupt Decays live. When do you expect to have Pyromancer's Ascension active? Turn 3 is challenging, more likely it's turn 4. I think you would have to play some sort of filtering card like Faithless Looting.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
well, abrupt decay is already somewhat active vs the ruby medallion. i'm not sure how often you are winning turn 1/2, but turn 3/4/5 is very common for this deck. faithless looting is probably a bit helpful there. maybe i'll have to just run 2 looting over 2 ascension, as it will just be a secondary plan. there's also a possibility it could just be a 1 off. you never really want to see the card in multiples, but would be great whenever you do draw it.
anyway, i'll do some goldfishing today and see how it turns up. i'll start with 3 ascension and 4 bolt and work from there.
Haven't checked in in a while.
Mistercakes is probably right about Morters. Also I think I want more cards that begin with "Mizz" (joke). Been playing slivers over this deck. After Feb 10, I'll return, add win percentages to see which deck I play in Seattle.
Chalice on 2 is fine. You'll likely already have a Helm/Ruby at that point, so it would only counter Wish/Morphose/future rubys. Desperate Ritual if you are playing that. Regardless of version it doesn't turn off much as our CMC is much higher than normal storm.
They would need to have chalice on 0,1,2 and maybe 3 then MAYBE I'd feel hopeless. If you are worried about it, Abrade, By Force, Shattering Spree are all there.
Overall this deck dodges things that normal storm would be wrecked by. However QUANTITY of things will still definitely wreck it. I have won post multiple Surgicals, because it usually targets WIsh and PIF and this deck can just draw the entire deck into Tendrils.
Pyromancer's sounds interesting, and I would love to see it with some faithless and reforge, but I still think I like Mizzix's Mastery. Enough discard will definitely fill the yard, but 6 mana->cast entire graveyard for free is usually my version of that.
I do think be easy on newcomer's as there are basically 3 versions of the deck floating around the thread and it's confusing with the conversations we have. We contradict the primer a lot with different ideas and new cards.
Bolt certainly helps. Flashing back even 2 Bolts that get doubled is 12 damage by itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
Regarding Decay: it does slow us down with Ruby, but it does not in any way shut off the combo. Killing Ascension is almost guaranteed to slow us down much more significantly because of your investment in setting it up. You have to dedicate slots like Lightning Bolt to make it good, where Guttersnipe (the closest analogy) is much better on the surface for providing an alternative path to victory.
I agree, maximizing Faithless and Reforge is the way to make Ascension work. The problem is that Faithless is inherent card disadvantage and sets us up to get blown out by Deathrite Shaman. Abrupt Decay kills ascension. Reforge feeds them Forces/Flusterstorms/Abrupt Decays. It's the same old problem: non-blue deck matchups are significantly improved by Looting/Reforge, blue decks are significantly worsened with those same cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by compacta_d
I think a spot in the primer should have the significantly different versions listed, and categorized as such:Quote:
I do think be easy on newcomer's as there are basically 3 versions of the deck floating around the thread and it's confusing with the conversations we have. We contradict the primer a lot with different ideas and new cards.
LED Versions
Non-LED Versions
The other really different point is whether to play Guttersnipe or not. I think we're getting closer to a consensus on that (it's good!) so that probably won't be a sticking point. Invariably with a quirky deck like this it will be different for every player trying to develop it. Maybe just pointing out the biggest divisions (LED, Guttersnipe) would clean up the confusion.
Everybody is trying janky shit in almost every deck thread. It's in the community's nature to tweak, change, alter these decks to fit our meta-game and style. We need to recognize that and not see it as a contradiction per se, just personal preference.
let's put up some results in a big tourney before it's completely settled. i'm fairly confident that the LED version is more optimal. there's just a bit too much synergy with burning wish, pif, and act on impulse. anywho.
i honestly just haven't the time to play. i've probably passed on 5+ mkm series tournaments since i've started this thread, maybe more. i haven't even had time to play modo since july.
Just wanted to mention that the list on the primer is more or less what I'll actually run next time I play. I just like tinkering too much if I have the chance to goldfish. Realistically you want to be an interactive deck that can win in the early turns but also engage properly. I think faithless has a hard time doing that as it's card disadvantage. Vs a non blue deck it's good, but it can be rough. Obviously it's good with the draw 7, but we should also be aware of the amount of Leovold and chalice decks. We should at least he able to go even with the grixis 4c decks (pile and delver). After that pick your chalice deck of choice and test against that.
When that is done playtest vs miracles, and then do some sneak and show matchups. After that many of the matchups are pretty open.
The primer is designed for an open meta. Local meta can allow for whatever, that's up to the user to browse through the thread.
It's not as though I don't test my ideas.
I went 6-5 with the list that had 3 reforge, 3 empties and 3 past in flames at EW. Of those 5 losses I think at least 3 were lost due to answers to goblin tokens. I could recheck my notes, but Marsh Casualties, Toxic Deluge, and Pernicious Deed were the most memorable answers. The more you rely on Empty the Warrens, the more likely you are to get blown out by Leovold decks, including Nic Fit, which isn't where you want to be.
I've been slowly testing each card 1 at a time until NYE where I swapped to slivers to practice for Seattle.
I play 2 small events a week, ranging from 8-24 ish players depending on the event and week. The list I had currently is the one I did great with 3 weeks straight, 6 events either 4-0 or 3-1. From Oct-Jan it was the deck I ran so 24ish events with it. I've probably played every version of the list you all post, EXCEPT the goblin lore one. Haven't picked those up yet.
Faithless Looting costs a card yes. Regardless of which version you play, HUF, PIF, RTS, AOI all make up for the -1 card. Even Shreds of Sanity. It also adds to storm, works out of yard, gets reduced by Rubys, and fixes hands to go off on turn 2 more times.
I think the only reason to not play an LED version is if you do not have LEDS, which is perfectly reasonable. It's mostly a budget deck anyway. I do think it does the empty plan better than belcher. Belcher does the belcher plan better than this deck.
Blue decks are Blue decks. all combo decks are going to have the same "weakness" to blue decks (except maybe dredge). I think more exposure to them will numb you to it and allow you play around it. I am more worried about RTS versus Burn than I am a Blue deck. Ruby Storm has MORE play versus the blue decks than normal storm variants IMO. The more big spells in the deck, the more you can just rip them and cast like eldrazi. We can literally just pay for Flusterstorm when storm is 25 and we have over 20 red mana. Defense Grid works very well with Reforge to also prevent things like Mindbreak Trap. It's also just good at stopping interaction with the combo. They have to counter it, use the counter, or not get to counter anything else.
We also have access to pyroblast. Can run 4. counters/counters and kill leovolds.
Yes, absolutely tune to your meta, but it isn't as though my meta isn't full of leo/blue decks and chalice decks. Red has answers to all these things.
all valid points. i'd have to have some longer testing sessions vs the control decks using defense grid. if you cast grid and pass the turn there's a very good chance it's getting decayed or commanded.
the reforge version tends to play a turn faster.
regarding the LED's. if you can't afford them, then that's what it is. you can play dredge without LED's and still get by as well, but i wouldn't say that this is a good version of the deck. everyone is prepared for the 1/1's. it also takes rollover hate that needs to deal with TNN, young pyromancer, other storm decks, death and taxes, etc.
glad to hear you've tested a lot.
the other combo (ant/tes) run a full suite of discard and that's how they get to interact. (to a lesser extent, ANT also can just overpower control decks with past in flames as well). we don't have that luxury and we also don't generally have a maindeck answer to leovold. (i also understand that most of the games are decided post board).
i'm pretty comfortable playing combo decks in general. i've played pretty much every combo deck available since 1998, so i'm aware of how to manage blue players. it's more of an understanding to my outs.
from when i was playing on modo in the summer, the blue players tended to be better on average than the ones you would play irl. at weeklies most players tend to be bad to above average. there's a chance you'll hit that same kind of caliber player in a larger tournament, but the grinders and serious players are also there. those players also tend to play blue more than other variants. those are the people i'm gunning for when i'm working on lists.
i enjoy drawing 7 cards as much as the next guy, and when i played in the weeklies they were fine. i'm not confident in those lists in terms of bringing it to a 7+ round event. it's not to say that the other versions are bad, this deck has some rough patches, as we can't really manipulate the deck very well. (faithless looting being some of the best red can offer, which isn't much compared to what the other decks in the format are doing.)
my hope is that all of this is for nothing, and that we will get a nice gift in the next few sets. (might take another year, but am looking forward to it. i mentioned this before: ANT and TES and to a lesser extent DDFT all have optimized themselves. they do run 2+ preordains sometimes, but that's about it in terms of what gets shifted around. this deck has a lot of opportunity to tinker and get better.
as soon as we can put up some results with a reasonably sized tournament, i'm happy to update the primer with lists.
hey guys this my first post in this forum. anyhow i read the thread from time to time since a half year now. i started playing the deck in paper around the same time and since three weeks i also play it online. i always tested lots of the stuff that was mentioned here, like: Guttersnipe, Shreds of Sanity, Magma Jet, Gamble, overcome, mizzix mastery... and other stuff that i wanted to try (warping wail, reverberate, blood sun). the list i am actually playing feels pretty right to me and led me to my best results so far... would be nice to hear your opinion.
---
Mainboard
4 Ruby Medallion
2 Helm of Awakening
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Rite of Flame
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Faithless Looting
4 Act on Impulse
1 Hazoreths undying Fury
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Burning Wish
2 Past in Flames
2 Empty the Warrens
1 Abrade
10 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
1 City of Traitors
---
Sideboard
Empty the Warrens
Tendrils of Agony
Goblin War Strike
Reforge the Soul
Past in Flames
Grapeshot
Cave-In
By Force
2 Abrade
3 Defensive Grid
2 Blood Moon
---
i have to say i am not caring much about graveyard hate because mostly when i played against reanimator i just went lucky. but its rarely played in my meta. because of the defensive grids and the higher chance of an early blood moon i like playing four sol lands instead of three.
i also think that the two faithless looting are really good cards because they make me keep hands that i otherwise have to mulligan. i can discard lands, get faster through the deck etc.
thanks to all of you that put so many good ideas into this. i really like the deck!
glad to hear it. let us know of your results if you play in anything big or are able to do some extensive testing vs any decklist. will add any extensive matchup analysis to the primer.
-rob
been messing around with goldfishing (no time for actual matches recently) and this one has been rather fun. i haven't messed around with commune since the summer, so it's nice to see how the deck has adapted since then. (more faith in act on impulse, and the probes/led's are fully committed)
// 60 Maindeck
// 12
12 Mountain
// 15 Artifact
3 Helm of Awakening
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
// 14 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
4 Commune with Lava
// 2 Land
2 Ancient Tomb
// 19 Sorcery
4 Act on Impulse
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
3 Past in Flames
4 Gitaxian Probe
// 6 Sideboard
// 6 Sorcery
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Past in Flames
it's a bit slower (as you mostly want to go off on turn 3/4), but it's more resilient to leovold and you get to cast commune on their turn, which is a nice change.
I do really like Commune in the goldfishing I've done with the deck. I'm only playing 2 copies currently. I don't however like relying on Wish targets to win. I think at least 1 MB 1 win-con is a must since Surgical Extraction is a card that gets used in almost any deck. If Wish gets extracted then it's game over.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
i don't mind getting surgical extracted game 1. if they are running it maindeck, then that's just a bad beat for me. after sb i'll probably have some guttersnipes, but haven't fleshed it out much.
Very true, I just prefer to have one MB so I don't have to worry about siding one in games 2&3 and just in case.
Oh, and this is the list I'm currently working with:
MB:
4x Act on Impulse (M15)
2x Ancient Tomb (TMP)
4x Burning Wish (CN2)
2x Commune with Lava (DTK)
2x Desperate Ritual (CHK)
1x Empty the Warrens (TSP)
4x Gitaxian Probe (NPH)
2x Lightning Bolt (AC2)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond (MIR)
4x Lotus Petal (TMP)
4x Manamorphose (SHM)
12x Mountain (TMP)
3x Past in Flames (MM3)
4x Rite of Flame (CSP)
4x Ruby Medallion (TMP)
4x Seething Song (MRD)
SB:
2x Defense Grid (ULG)
1x Gamble (USG)
1x Goblin War Strike (SCG)
1x Mizzium Mortars (RTR)
1x Past in Flames (MM3)
1x Pyroclasm (DDK)
1x Reforge the Soul (AVR)
2x Scab-Clan Berserker (ORI)
1x Shattering Spree (GPT)
2x Silent Gravestone (RIX)
1x Surgical Extraction (NPH)
1x Tendrils of Agony (SCG)
cool it's pretty close to what i've been testing. lemme know how it goes if you play it anywhere. i've felt like i wanted more rocks for this version, as X for commune actually increases for each rock in play. 3 rocks + RR = 3 cards.
Yeah, I've definatly seen where multiple reducers can really make Commune go. I dunno what I'd drop for it though. Maybe 2 LEDs, as I find I cast them more for storm count than anything. But, any time I think about dropping them I goldfish a game where they were needed for the black mana with Tendrils.
EDIT: Also, without Guttersnipe I'm not really liking the MB bolts as much. I may go with 2 more desperate rituals. But, I'm going to wait until I play some real matches to determine that. I've got about half the deck sleeved up and all but 6 cards (2 Medallions, 1 commune with Lava, 2 Bolts and 1 Ancient Tomb) in the mail to me.
The bolts are good, but guttersnipe is definitely a better card for the deck. Before filling the deck with more rituals it might make sense to play 1/2/3 snipes.
Right now I'm on 7 rocks, but realistically it could. Be 5 or 6 and 1/2 snipes respectively.
The bolts would be best in a high delver/dnt/pile meta.
Wow, I love the look of the updated first post. Treating Guttersnipe and the Ruby's in a similar fashion is a great idea. I see that it also reduces the number of seemingly random (but not random) 1ofs in the main. (Gamble/shreds/helm etc) I really need to get more practice in with the deck instead of looking at it longingly.
I'm glad to see there were updates with commune with lava, was going to ask the other day before I forgot.
It's been awhile since I read the entire thread, but what was the consensus on bedlam reveler as a potential draw 3? Seeing mardu pyromancer in modern just led me to wondering. I'll guess likely not, but wanted to double check to be sure it was covered.
Edit: While Ali from Cairo has some definite style points, there is a likely much cheaper alternative in Fortune Thief, just costs 1 more. However, how does it stop elves as a free win? It'll stop crater hoof stuff, but a single Deathrite activation afterwards is game over isn't it? (A dear friend and elves expert will occasionally use Elder scale Wurm to blow out some players in a similar fashion and we'd regularly discuss how to get around it.)
ali says anything that would reduce your life to less than 1 reduces it to 1. i imagine that should stop them from killing you. fortune thief is the same. they have no ways of killing a 4cc creature in their 75. (unless if i'm reading something wrong on the rules text).
i'm still not convinced that commune is the best version, but it's definitely one of the more powerful versions that has effects that only are one-sided. it will need more testing, as guttersnipe has already proven itself. haven't had time to test bolt yet, but it's rarely a bad card in mtg as a whole.
My issue with bolt in my guttersnipe-less build is that I always wanted more gas instead of the bolt. But, this was also goldfishing so, that could easily change with an opponent across from me.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
From the gatherer on Fortune Thief-
The first ability applies only if your life total is being reduced by damage. Other effects or costs (such as “lose 1 life” or “pay 1 life”) can reduce your life total below 1 as normal
So hoof for a ton then Deathrite to finish the job is my understanding. If they see the play of course.
Also, was totally unaware this existed till now, likely under powered but always good to know.
Crash Through
R Sorcery
Creatures you control gain trample til end of turn.
Draw a Card.
So R draw a card that doesn't actually need a target to cast. Could be something if that's an effect someone was looking for.
ah crap. yea that's right.
if you're looking for R cantrip, just play overmaster. i'm not really on board with that plan.
I like Guttersnipe for making shorter storm chains lethal with BW > Grapeshot. I will be cutting 1x Helm and 2x Warrens (1 maindeck ETW still) to get 3 copies of Snipe in.
I'm still on the Overmaster plan...playing 3 main. I know mistercakes is opposed to it, but I haven't been disappointed yet.
My biggest concern with Guttersnipe is he's a 3 mana 2/2 that doesn't dodge any removal in the format. I do think he plays well with the deck but, it's not like the deck has issues getting to a 10 storm count for empty or tendrils.
In my testing with him in the list, I was able to do some fun stuff but I just think he's too susceptible to removal.
Maybe sideboard material then, but others have said he has done really well. I don't think we cast him unless we plan on winning the same turn, and he is typically 2 mana with a reducer.
I didn't play guttersnipe for a very long time. After playing it in two weeklies, the little guy is actually very good. Even if he eats a removal spell.
Oh I don't doubt he puts in work, I think he's better in a non-LED version that runs grapeshot though. I use him and his little sister Firebrand Archer in my mono red storm EDH deck. I just prefer the creature-less route with this deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
It's honestly fine in any version. Unfortunately, you have to play actual matches with the deck to see it. It's one of those cards that looks bad on paper, and then turns out great. (eg. Tarmogoyf, gurmag angler, arcbound ravager)
Played in a $2k Saturday 2/3/2018 @ Top Deck Games, NJ, monthly event, 39 people, 6 rds cut to T8
Overall, finished with a record of 3-3. One of those wins was on paper cause my opponent wanted to go hang with his gf, so he dropped. One of those loses was because I forgot to desideboard, and called myself out on it. I would've won that g1*, and did win g2, lost g3. So, karma balanced, record balanced, some good and bad things. The list I played (was missing the 3rd PiF in MD, replaced with RtS, who'd think PiF was a hard card to find between 3 LGS the night before.)-
// Legacy - Ruby Storm-L.Bolt/snipe
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 4 Creature
4 Guttersnipe
// 10 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
2 Lightning Bolt
// 14 Land
11 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
// 20 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
2 Past in Flames
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reforge the Soul
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Sowing Salt
M1 - Jack - ANT
G1 - I played, t2 killed. A probe t1, then AdN down to 4, lots and lots of Tendrils copies.
G2 - I played, mull to 6. First note is that I should've mullled from 6 to 5, it was the same 6, minus a petal from the 1st 7, and a petal was the first draw. The shuffler is the devil, it is known. He fizzled on turn 2 (storm > 11, had bounced my Scab-Clan, AdN down to 5, then g.probe to 3), had revealed the wrong card on Infernal Tutor. My turn 3 I recast Scab-Clan, and he would've died upon resolution. He punted, but I'll take that fair catch.
G3 - He played, both mull to 6. Turn 2, lots of storm, AdN down to 8, was never in this game. Can't remember if I had a Scab-Clan in hand or not.
(0-1, 1-2)
M2 - Noah - BUG Food Chain
G1 - He doesn't really do much. I snap bolted a first turn DRS. On my t4 I storm for 10 Goblins, he had made a strix or two. Right before the game ended, he cast an Eternal Scourge with a Food Chain out, basically untapped it. But too little, too late.
G2 - Got there by t4, on the back of Guttersnipe. On my turn 2 I was able to ping 3 with three spells, for 5 triggers (an AoI exiled another Snipe.) A few turns not drawing anything that would draw spells, just sat there and waited, casting another Snipe. One spell with 3 triggers drops him to 2, then a bolt the next turn would be -7. He never really got going in this game, was kind of a passenger. He cast a V.Clique, and my one card in hand was a mountain I decided not to play.
(1-1, 3-2)
M3 - Ed - RG Lands
G1 - He played, I mulled to 5. Died so fast, not many notes. He dredged into DD with loam, and I died shortly there after.
G2 - I played. I got three Snipe triggers, and then died to DD token again.
Ed decides he wants to bounce after testing some modern proxy deck, so I I get to continue with a win.
(2-1*, 5-3*)
M4 - Zach - ANT
G1 - He played, I mulled to 6. His turn 3, he naturally storms and makes about 12 goblins. He's at 15 after three fetches and a g. probe. My turn, I go yolo, get a Snipe in play, a trigger, have storm at about 5, and flip an AoI with mana in pool, and a BW, and another castable spell, no two black sources for Tendrils, but can likely make about 16 goblins or so. From the AoI, I see a silent gravestone. whomp whomp
G2 - I cast a t2- Scab-Clan, he concedes. After reading the card, and realizing what it does, he makes a face. That face was worth my entry fee, so while not as good as I had hoped, the day was somewhat worthwhile.
G3 - He cast EtW for 12 goblins, I try to dig at 6 life, but couldn't find it, c'est la vie.
(2-2*, 6-5*)
M5 - Ryan - Lands
G1 - I mulled, he played. He doesn't do much, kinda derping. On t4 I win with a storm of ~8+ but using snipe triggers to get him to 4, and an overkill with Tendrils.
G2 - He played. I quick out a Scab, hits, does 2 pings. He doesn't do much, ghosted his own land for a green source. Played a chasm, stopped Scab and a played Snipe. Paid the cost twice, dropping from 14 to 8. Couldn't find any of his combo pieces, I storm out with 3 rocks in play on turn 6 or 7 with Tendrils.
(3-2, 8-5)
M6 - Nick - Miracles
G1 - He played. He has no idea what I'm on, first guests Dragon Storm. Basic mountain pass threw him for a loop. He fetched three times, cast a FoW on Reforge, took a snipe trigger in between. I would've kept with the self-masturbatory nonsense, but the kill is in my gy with Snipe triggers and he concedes. I cast the mana and have it float in pool. I bait him with a Reforge, he counters, then I cast PiF, and cast Reforge anyway. Lots of triggers. It was a fun game.
G2 - He played, I mull to 5. He has the jist now, an early C. Balance counters a Snipe. Never really get in the game with my draws, die to snappy beats slowly. This is funny because he didn't want me to slow play G1, yet he is attacking with a sole Snappy and he has another 2 in hand, and I'm doing nothing. Oh the hypocrisy.
G3 - I play. We go back and forth a bit, he FoW'd an AoI, stops me for that salvo. Lets mana rocks, Gravestone resolve, counters Snipe, Draw. Then, in a moment that might've swung the game in his favor, we were both down to 1 or no cards in hand. He cast perdict, knowing I had an LED on top (Unexpectedly Absent). I had a Silent Gravestone in play, could've used it to draw the LED, limiting his draw from two to one. I later crack the Gravestone in resp to him casting a Wear//Tear. Probably should've cracked it previously. He get's Search for Azcanta flipped, and just pulls away on card draw. By the time he cast Entreat the Angels for 3, non-Miracled, I try to go yolo, but he's got about 5 counterspells in hand. My game is done, I had drawn a bunch of lands.
(3-3, 9-7)
How I felt on the day - mixed results. The Guttersnipes were awesome, always happy to see. They were a wincon, but folks didn't focus on them, too worried about what storm count was, or what might grab with BW, and the Snipes did lots of work. Happy to see rocks, folks usually didn't molest them, maybe a bounce here or there. Typically, I was either super game, or just dead in the water. ANT was just faster, and the lands seemed like a coin flip. In G2 of M3 he durdled a bit, and I could've cast BW for Sowing Salt, but he had a Ghost Quarters that would've blanked it. With loam, a moot point.
Was typically happy with my SB, Scab-Clan is a go, the Gravestones felt way better than T. Crypt. Missed the Defense Grids for that lone Miracles match-up.
Really though, I missed not seeing Act on Impulse. I'm switching in some Commune with Lava on 'Trice to try it. Deck needs more draw, more than just cantrip. Also, 3 PiF feels wrong. There were a few games I had two in hand, that's completely worthless. Even two BW represent more options than just four copies of PiF in two cards. I also coin-flip kept Mizzix in my board rather than Hull Breach. I felt I wanted Breach, but didn't really miss it, maybe against Counterbalance, but that game BW, or the Hull Breach, weren't gonna resolve anyway.
After the game, my 12 Post friend and I played a few no-SB games with our decks and I rolled him. Then we swapped, he floundered at first. After he got use to the need to mulligan, and just to trust the flips with AoI, he started rolling me. He became a hesitant convert, wanted to see more draw spells, Reforge especially.
And not sure where to put this, but I'm mixed on fetches vs. all mountains. Budget reasons, I'm on A.Tomb than City of Traitors. I do like that A.Tomb sticks around, there hasn't been a situation where the two mana from A.Tomb, would have saved the day, but couldn't use because of life loss. Basically, flips with AoI, or Reforge and grabbing a grip that's land heavy, that's sad town. What to do? I like 14 lands, my friend wanted 15 lands.
My match-ups were weird, two ANT, two Lands, Miracles, BUG Food Chain.
What I plan to play with upcoming:
// Legacy - Ruby Storm-Snipe/Commune
// Sideboard a work in progress, Goblin War Strike, Grapeshot, Flame Slash, Mizzium Mortars, Collective Defiance, Fiery Gambit, anger of the gods, Telemin Performance, slaughter games, tormod's crypt, scab-clan berserker
// 60 Maindeck
// 12 Artifact
4 Ruby Medallion
4 Lotus Petal
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
// 3 Creature
3 Guttersnipe
// 11 Instant
4 Seething Song
4 Manamorphose
3 Commune with Lava
// 14 Land
11 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
// 20 Sorcery
4 Rite of Flame
4 Act on Impulse
4 Burning Wish
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Reforge the Soul
2 Past in Flames
// 15 Sideboard
// 2 Artifact
SB: 2 Silent Gravestone
// 2 Creature
SB: 2 Scab-Clan Berserker
// 11 Sorcery
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 By Force
SB: 1 Cave-In
SB: 1 Mizzium Mortars
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
SB: 1 Mizzix's Mastery
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Sowing Salt
thanks for the report. great info here. your 75 looks pretty good. haven't tested a maindeck tendrils, i suppose it could be okay. how were the bolts? good to hear about the gravestone, although sometimes crypt can be good vs storm.
the hard part for me is always sticking with 4 ruby and 0 medallion. it's probably correct, and frees up some goodstuff slots. i'll suck it up and go back to the 4. wondering if you would have lost the first game vs food chain without that bolt.
also, sowing salt? purpose here?
I did like bolt. Don't want four, but as a bit of interaction, disrupt their dudes, reach for the last bit of kill, or an outlet for excess mana, storm count, bolt is a good stuff card on color.
Sowing salt is really corner case against silly stuff like chasm, or the dark depths combo. Not always relevant, but snagging a cloudpost, or an eldrazi temple can really help turn a game if done quickly without waiting for the perfect hand. Can't wait too naturally sculpt your hand a card per turn? Use sowing salt to screw over opponent, a don't lose, instead of, go for win, type selection.
I had tried 3 ruby, 2 stone before, while stone helps with twndrils, other stones, artifact hate, I really hated helping my opponents. Couldn't get overy that hurdle. Now with Commune in deck, may try again, 4r/1h.
i guess it depends on your meta, but i'd stay away from the land destruction. tendrils also gets around chasm btw.
i'll try going down to 2 commune with 4 ruby. 4 snipes, 2 bolts, and 2 pif. rest is 4's and lands will be 12 mtn, 2 tomb (tomb is better in the commune build, but i think CoT is better in an aggro metagame).
i think an argument can be made to cut 1 snipe for a 15th land or a singleton helm, the 13th mountain is prob better though if you are playing in 6+ round tourneys.
Testing 2 tomb, 2 cot, 12 mtn, 2 snipe, 2 commune, 2 bolt.
Bolts could be other stuff, but I like the versatility.
On the + side, I got to sell two control of the court for 45 euros each.
I'm about 99% convinced to play this next weekend at a legacy 1k. I have some changes I have been working through, and overall my confidence with the deck has grown considerably since I started with it. Here is my current list, with slots that are flexible for changes. I like Lightning Bolt a lot, will playing 3 maindeck. Guttersnipe in the board for sure. I just need a little help deciding if my sideboard is up to scratch, maindeck is fairly well locked in.
4x Ruby Medallion
4x Rite of Flame
4x Seething Song
4x Lotus Petal
3x Desperate Ritual
4x Gitaxian Probe
4x Act on Impulse
4x Manamorphose
1x Shreds of Sanity
3x Past in Flames
1x Hazoret’s Undying Fury
4x Burning Wish
1x Empty the Warrens
2x Overmaster
3x Lightning Bolt
10x Mountain
4x Crystal Vein
Sideboard
1x Tendrils of Agony
1x Empty the Warrens
1x Past in Flames
1x Grapeshot
1x Goblin War Strike
1x Reforge the Soul
1x Pyroclasm
3x Guttersnipe
2x Tormod's Crypt
2x Scab-Clan Berserker
1x Ensnaring Bridge
Yeah, after you mentioned them I was gonna buy them for the maybeboard. Maybenot board now. Not worth it for me IMO when the otherstuff is good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercakes
went 4-3 at a 70+ person tournament. Beat Mono R sneakx2, Tes, Miracles. Lost to UR delver, Czech, and food chain, which happened to have the super nuts combo speed game 3. Shrug. I also had Super nuts for the following turn though. 5-2 would have prized as well.
the Czech match was rough. Game 1 was thoughtseize, hymn, hymn, fow+blue Fow+blue in that order. With a deathrite in there somewhere.
Game 2 was deathrite, deathrite, deathrite locking me out of PIF and Mizz. Normally doesn't feel that bad, but that match did.
UR delver has just enough disruption and a great clock. I'd add that to bad matchups. I think worse than Grixis Delver possibly, but let you all decide that.
I sided out 1 mizz and brought in 1 PIF to make that change to the main deck. Still have 1 in md and sb though.
In that czech pile matchup there was a time where i faithless looting 5 times in one turn, then next turn topdecked the past in flames. Laugh it off, but mildly tilting. I think the Faithless COULD be Gamble, and actually work very well. Get land when I need it and allow for better PIF chains. Probably more keepable hands as well. usually when I loot I know what I am looking for, and many times it is PIF or Burning Wish, or I have too many redundant cards in hand and no rits. Even getting Rite and pitching it at rando would be good for the next rite. I think the skill required for gamble is more though knowing odds, knowing the patterns and plays, not tilting to the pitch etc.
Think my Sideboard needs some work though. Slaughter Games shined a bit this weekend, but meh. Blood Moon probably still good.