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Tested a bit versus Elves and a punishing RUG Delver variant. The Angel was solid against delver, forcing him to have to 2 for 1 to kill it off. Tomb stalker was decent as well, just not when he had a jace... Might just go back to more Angel or something. Containment Priest was solid against elves, except he still just had the nut glimpse hand to draw his deck and kill me. Derp. On a 2/2 split of him and spirit in the main. I probably should cut stalker for something and put the 4th Bob back
I really think you should try atleast Hero of Bladehold. That guy seems insane, one man army.Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
Fair enough. Back then I had been talking about it instead of Bob, but it's been a long time since I played the deck. Also, with everyone talking about blue's filtering being so key - how has Sensei's Divining Top not become a 4-of in non-blue decks such as this one? It smooths draws, works with fetchlands, can even draw a card when you want it to and is great with Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
For me, I'd rather not durdle with top. I'm tapping out almost every turn. I'd rather play Sylvan Library to be honest.
I decided to try something silly on thursday at my local.... I wanted to have some form of card advantage to keep up with u/r delver which is everywhere. I only have 4 duals atm, 4 fbb scrubland, so I can't splash. I added 4 Squadron Hawk to hang with my 4 Lingering Souls. I am not gonna lie, it worked. I ran 4 equipment main also to avoid trying to win off the back of a 1/1 flyer. Jitte, SoLaS, SoFaI, and BSkull. I faced U/r delver twice and only lost when I double mull'd and faced 2 wasteland T2 and T3. I'm not saying I just cracked the code, but it won me a lot of games all night. I also ran 3 Vindicate main deck with 1 Council's Judgment next to my 4 StP and they did work all night too. Got some "WtF!!-s" all night with my Paladin en-Vecs out of the board haha! Yep. Hawk atack. Win.
I'm curious about the Paladin. Why that over say a Kor Firewalker? Well Squadron Hawk is card advantage. I'm surprised it doesn't see more play. Like the Vindicates. Seems a lot of the Delver decks are not only having less Spell Pierces, but less lands as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
Going forward, I'm wondering if Hymn to Tourach should be replaced with Sinkhole or a one mana discard. Crossing my fingers that they ban Cruise but since I think there were only about 10 copies in the top 8, that may not happen.
Even considering splashing blue for Notion Thief. Or maybe more green for Choke in the board. Anyone try Choke? A friend of mine who plays Elves tried Choke and didn't really like it.
I liked choke as a tutor target. Don't think I lost a game where I resolved it. I generally didn't bring it in against delver though. Mostly just the mid range blue decks. And miracles
The Paladin en-Vecs should be Firewalkers but I actually didn't have any handy at the time. It was relevant however against Abrupt Decay vs. BuG, and a Germ blocking wall against Batterskull.
No reason to play squandron after printing of Lingering souls.
Comparing to the standrad caw-blade deck which dominate the format in 2010-2011…they have Jtms, so they put hawks back, resolve the 1 copy in hand, and get cda again and again.
We cannot do that.
Its better against terminus! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tokugawa
Hi guys first time posting in this thread. I usually play D&T but I have played Deadguy Ale before, both on MODO and in +100 player tournaments. But I have still not nearly the experience with Deadguy Ale that I have with D&T. So I'm looking to learn the deck better as I believe it's well positioned right now.
I play a lot on Magic Online (currently playing 2-3 legacy dailies a day). And the list I've come up with for right now is as follows:
20 lands:
3x Bloodstained Mire
1x Flooded Strand
4x Marsh Flats
1x Karakas
1x Plains
2x Swamp
4x Scrubland
4x Wasteland
20 Creatures:
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x Serra Avenger
4x Dark Confidant
4x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Mother of Runes
20 other:
3x Thoughtseize
3x Swords to Plowshares
4x Aether Vial
4x Hymn to Tourach
1x Zealous Persecution
2x Council's Judgement
1x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Batterskull
Sideboard:
1x Swords to Plowshares
1x Perish
2x Zealous Persecution
1x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Enlightened Tutor
2x Ethersworn Canonist
2x Rest in Peace
1x Spirit of the Labyrinth
1x Engineered Plague
1x Absolute Law
1x Circle of Protection: Red
I think this is good for the current MODO meta which consists of a lot of Stoneblade with True-Name Nemesis, a lot of burn and a good deal of miracles.
I also think that Choke is fantastic for the current meta so I will be testing a Deathrite Shaman version as well, but I am not settled on a list at all.
I hope I can help you guys find a great list for the UWR stoneblade infested meta we're going in to. And likewise that you can help me find a great list.
Maybe it's me but I just feel that Thoughtseize is awful right now. I'm preferring hymns mixed with cabal therapy atm. Hymn hits land and cabal can do serious work with lingering souls.
See I'm more on the train that Hymn isn't as good anymore. I'd rather have targeted discard to make sure I hit the equipment they find with Stoneforge
Considering Stoneforge is everywhere right now, I like Thoughtseize enough to play it. It's not good against UR delver but that is on a decline, and Thoughtseize is excellent against UWR stoneblade and miracles which is two of the decks I'm targetting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Madmankevinx
I'm not sure about Hymn to Tourach but I'm gonna test it before I dismiss it. Normally, what sucks about Hymn to Tourach, is that you tap out on turn 2 to do add nothing to the board. But with Aether Vial you still develop your board and mana despite using 2 mana on a discard spell, so I think I like it.
Thoughtseize and Cabal Therapy are what you want to be playing if you're good enough, and Marc, you're good enough. I'd like it more if you were on the Souls plan, but if you're on a BW Vial list, you want Cabal. Hymn is kind of stinky right now.
-Matt
Hey Bahra, cool to see you here in the DGA thread. I've been a big fan of your stream for a while as it helped me get through a number of touchy naptimes when my son was teething, congrats on breaking through in paper last week!
I actually just watched the last two rounds of the daily you played tonight. I think your black & taxes approach is cool but it seems very subject to variance. When you can Vial into Wasteland-Thoughtseize-Mom into Hymn-draw step Sculler, it's great. But a lot of the time otherwise I feel like Sculler, Hymn, and Vial are underwhelming cards without some of the cooler D&T synergies (mono-color manabase and Rishadan Port).
I agree that we can be the best Zealous Persecution deck in the format. Because of that I really think Lingering Souls is a very strong card. I like it better than Avenger because it's resistant to Lightning Bolt (and there are always more Lightning Bolts than Forked Bolts) and can trade with Delver while still giving you bodies even without playing a ZP. Flying over the top with equipment is a huge bonus.
Personally I would rather have some combination of Top, Souls and Cabal Therapy over Vial, Sculler, and Hymn. Therapy + Souls can help rip the cards you're the most scared of, and Therapy + Top are both outs to Bob killing you (sometimes relevant). Thoughtseize into Therapy is very often game over against any deck to be honest.
If you like Avenger I think it's fine to keep as a 2-3 of for a late-game beater. There are lots of other options for such a slot, though: Wilkin likes Hero of Bladehold, Megadeus likes Restoration Angel, I've tried a bunch of stuff in there. Honestly Avenger having flying seems super important in a Young Pyromancer/TNN world, so I could see myself trying that as well.
I really like Council's Judgement right now too because of TNN. ZP can help us mop up Pyromancer spam but I always die miserably to TNN. How has 2 mainboard been for you? Would you make any other changes to the deck?
If you are interested in Black and Taxes, I highly recommend looking into Richard Cheese's version of it. I'm not sure but I think he put up a tourney report with it a while back, just do a quick search. It's a good starting point imo.
I played it a few months ago. I think it's good enough to at least test out. I just don't have access to, and therefore don't play it enough to know if it's good enough. It's probably not terrible with an optimal player and list though
Interesting Death and Taxes hybrid list. Unfortunately, Hymn to Tourach isn't that good right now because of Treasure Cruise. If I were to build a list it would look like this...
4 Dark Confidant
3 Thalia, Guardian Of Thraben
4 Mother of Runes
2 Brimaz
2 Orzhov Pontiff
3 Flickerwisp
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 swords to plowshares
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Aether Vial
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Council's Judgment
22 Lands.
4 scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Wasteland
3 Plains
1 Swamp
2 Karakas
4 more fetches.
Sideboard
4 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
2 Containment Priest
1 Council's Judgment
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Zealous Persecution
Tried to fit in Chrome Mox somehow. lol. Casting Thalia first turn vs Storm is awesome. But I couldn't. In the board, maybe some more spot removal like Disfigures or something as Sulfur Elemental is a beating. I feel right, now if you are going with a hybrid build that Pontiff is really good right now. Killing Elemental tokens, Young Pyromancer and True Name is great, and possibly being able to do it again either with Haunt or Flickerwisp is very enticing.
Couldn't really fit in Hymn. And as long as Treasure Cruise is around, Hymn isn't that good. But with a couple of Spirits main, there's an answer maindeck to Cruise.
Also considered Hero but Brimaz is much easier to Vial in, and in a Taxes Build you can afford to run more Karakas.