If you want to cut a land, I d rather cut a Serras Sa or a basic plains, having that Green turn 1 is really important so I certainly wouldnt cut the Savannah first.
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If you want to cut a land, I d rather cut a Serras Sa or a basic plains, having that Green turn 1 is really important so I certainly wouldnt cut the Savannah first.
The only defensible nonbasics in Enchantress are Nykthos, Sanctum, and the Gx dual for your tertiary color. You really don't want to put yourself in a position where you have to enchant Savannah to get going, and your most important turn 1 plays are Utopia Sprawl and Wild Growth. Even with Exploration, I find that I flood too often on 21 Lands.
Mhh, maybe in 3 colour enchantress Savannah can be 1 extra risky nonbasic too many. In 2 color ench, where you don't need another Gx it's just fine. It's especially necessary if you run >4 fetches (i.e. non-Windswept fetches).Quote:
Originally Posted by btm10
I'd also like to add Karakas in metas that have a good amount of decks like Reanimator or Show & tell. It has saved me countless of times, and additionally it can loop Emrakul if you can't kill them in 1 shot (or if they have Strix out, happened to me enough that I had to annihilate twice first), or to save him from Terminus.
May be clunky in 3 colour builds maybe, but in Enchantress without much splash it's just fine unless your meta doesn't require it at all.
I'd just caution that I've tried numerous versions of enchantress over the years, and not one has had anything even close to a positive elves matchup. The DnT MU does get improved by the addition of doomwake. I've also found suppression field to be very helpful against DnT (but that's not what you're asking about).Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart
Overall I find your list to be fine, no major critiques from me. The only suggestion I have is really preference based, but I would suggest cutting the 2nd plains. You only need 20 lands.
My bad, everyone. It should only have 20 lands; I run 3 Sanctums. I agree that 21 is too many.
I definitely always would play a Savannah at least. Sometimes your hand is fetch wild growth and you have a 2 mana white spell you need in a combo match up where forest doesn't get you green mana. I'm currently trying out a karakas instead of forest #8.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
Played in my two "big" weekend events with this deck this weekend. Got top 8 both days, but git a bye both days too which helped. Not too much deviation. My list was actually pretty similar to one posted recently. Tried out main board City of Solitude. Wasn't too bad though I didn't play a whole lot of matches where it was amazing. Karakas actually saved me in vintage when I tried out a vintage version when my opponent was on oath and Iona'd me. Actually defeated that man by decking him in game 1 because he made Blazing Archon and I made solitary confinement with double Sterling Grove
Also I play 19 lands which may be greedy. I could see going to 61 and playing forest #8
I forgot about Karakas. It's nice to randomly draw vs things like reanimator and sneak and show, and it is also helpful against DnT. Making them pick Thalia up for a turn can let you pull through their mana denial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjaulnir
When I played Naya Enchantress years ago I ran four fetches, two Savannahs, two Sanctums, one Taiga, and one Karakas. This seemed to be pretty much stock at the time.
I do like the idea of Horizon Canopy in place of the second Savannah. Trading it up for a card later is worth the life payment (and fetchibility is not going to matter much beyond the first Savannah). Dryad Arbor also seems like a solid choice - especially if the big argument against non-basics is grounded in wanting three mana on turn two (Wild Growth or Utopia Sprawl), which is exactly what Dryad Arbor is there for.
Regarding the turn one enchant land play, this is important if you are planning a turn two Presence or GSZ. But if you are dropping a natural Argothian Enchantress, sometimes it's better to delay that play so you can get a card off it. Either way, 11-13 basics & fetches should be plenty I think.
Went 4-1 in another league last night, with a list close to the SDTop list, very sad to meet reanimator while I was 4-0, I want to see Enchantress in the list of 5-0s again :p
Beat Shardless, Loam, Eldrazi and Miracles iirc. Against Reani I had Karakas for Griselbrand, but drawing 14 is still OP so next turn he could get a Grave Titan on board with decay for my Elephant Grass. And drew 4 lands/GSZs in a row so had nothing to stop him anymore.
Playing with this list:
9 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Plains
1 Savannah
2 Serra's Sanctum
4 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
4 Argothian Enchantress
1 Eidolon of Blossoms
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Replenish
1 Banishing Light
3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Elephant Grass
4 Enchantress's Presence
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Sigil of the Empty Throne
3 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Wild Growth
1 Gaea's Touch
1 Seal of Primordium
SIDEBOARD
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rest in Peace
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Humility
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Trinisphere
Top is certainly the real deal after turn 3, when it starts outperforming Guile. Keeping in 1 for the faster matchups instead of going to 3 Tops, as sometimes you prefer Guile turn 1 and 2 Tops should be sufficient to draw into them when you need 'em.
I certainly feel like I have less mulligans because of only playing 2 Serra's Sanctums. And with all the Carpets etc you get mana enough anyway.
Garruk has also been overperforming against grindy decks, and because of all the Carpet mana I finally feel that Sigil of the Empty Throne is making enough tokens early enough to kill people.
Ooze has also been nice, won me against Shardless by disabling his 2 Deathrites and Tarmogoyf at the same time. Having 5 green mana/turn to spend is nice :p
I'm coming across more and more Death and Taxes, and finding the match up rather difficult. As I look for ways to deal with the decks I face more often, I'm looking at Elephant Grass as the one to take out, in order to take care of such pesky creatures. It's not the combat aspect I am worried about, it's how powerful and annoying the abilities of the creatures are. But it's not just the DnT though, it's just a collection of various other things.
I no longer see, and have not seen "swarm" strategies from the likes of Merfolk, goblins, affinity for a long time already. It just feels like I need to deal with single creatures with really annoying abilities, or creatures that enables them to get going. If the meta an area is filled with the following:
Death and Taxes (3)
Maverick (1)
MUD (1)
Tin Fins (1)
ANT (1)
Show and Tell (3)
Sneak and Show (1)
Reanimator (1)
Shardless BUG (2)
Delver variants (3)
Combo elves (1)
Jund (1)
Miracles (1)
Lands (1)
Eldrazi (1)
Imperial Painter (1)
I run a 21 land count, 12 engine (no eidolon), replenish GWr build with Sigil and Emrakul as my Win-con, and Blood Moon on the side.
Does anyone have any advise for me to push enchantress through? I only have Enchantress as Legacy deck, so I'd like to make it work at least, if not at least hold my own. Anyone have any advise for me, both main decked and SB? Thank you, and appreciate those that took the time to respond and help me out.
Edit: I quit magic for a good couple years when my backpack containing my legacy decks and binders got stolen. A freind gave enchantress to me, and it's what brought me back to the format (or just magic in general), I actually really do love the deck, and would like to keep pushing the deck through if possible.
A couple main board swords to plowshares? If in red, Seal of Fire deals with most annoying hate bears. Humility Also? I guess there's also Chained to the Rocks
I'm quite partial to journey to nowhere in white. In red I like words of war, and I like seal of fire in theory but I've never tried it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore1
I just went to a local game store and grabbed myself some seal of fire and Swords, going to try them out versus proxies and see how they work out for me. Hopefully, this well help me out with those pesky creatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Dingo
Nice job on the top 8s!Quote:
Originally Posted by Megadeus
I played 19 lands when I first built the deck (I think my list was based off yours), but found it just a little bit light. 20 has been the sweet spot for me, and a singleton Savannah has been great in that 20. The odds of it being your opening Wild Growthed land drop are slim, and once you have 1-2 basics out it provides a lot of flexibility with your fetches.
Enchantress feels like a deck that could go to 61 easily. I'm finding that whenever I want to try a new card, a big chunk of my list is non negotiable. Considering how easily we turn our spells into Recalls, 61 seems reasonable (though that might mean increasing our GSZ count to 3-4).
I feel the Elephant Grass pain. The card's still too good to cut, but there are times it feels bad (I've lost a lot of games to a local Aggroloam player who can just swing through Grass with an 8/8 Knight). In addition to the spot removal suggested, you could try Lignify; if your win cons are flyers and/or RIP Helm, the 0/4 treefolk won't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Claymore1
Also, I recently added 1 maindeck City of Solitude and have liked it. Several of the decks you mentioned run Port, which City is good against. Also protects you from instant-speed Aether Vial, end-of-turn Marit Lage, etc.
@Claymore1. I'm wondering if Task Mage Assembly might be worth trying. For 30 cents it's worth a shot. Down side vs WoW is not hitting players. But, with Thalia 1 out, WoW costs at least 3 and a card where as with TMA, you can burn out the critters you want gone. And seeing as a ton of DnT critters are x/1, it only costs 2. Since Argothian has shroud, she's fine. They would have to pay 8 to kill an angel. It's "no creatures..." clause is nerfed by Argothian or at least by killig all thier critters but a little one that's already finished it's ETB effect.
On Lignify, I haven't played enchantress in a while but, I started to prefer Song of the Dryads. It's 1 more but hits so much stuff. They get a land but who cares most of the time. It takes out PWs and just about everything else.
One was due to time constraints we only cut to top 4 unfortunately. Other I lost to miracles in top 8. Picked up a stony and another city of solitude with some of the winnings. I can't stand losing to miracles. Might go up to a third Seal of Primordium on the board.
@Stuart
"Also, I recently added 1 maindeck City of Solitude and have liked it. Several of the decks you mentioned run Port, which City is good against. Also protects you from instant-speed Aether Vial, end-of-turn Marit Lage, etc"
I'm going to be honest, I feel really dumb right now haha. I never actually considered City of Solitude in that point of view. I have a big smile, and if you're around I'll give you a big hug right now lol. Thank you for that input.:laugh:
@harbingerofthevoid
"Claymore1. I'm wondering if Task Mage Assembly might be worth trying."
I don't think I'll go that route, but I greatly appreciate you taking the time to present options out there. After 2 days of play testing, I'm feeling much more comfortable with those said match ups. It took a bit of tweaking here and there, but I feel much better.
---
On another note, there's a Japanese (?) Legacy event, and while Miracles took 1st place, and Enchantress player took 2nd. His list is very weird, that the whole thing looks more like a toolbox.He's even running, not 4... but 1 Force of Will main decked. Although his single Cavern of Souls kind-of piqued my interest.
Here's the list that he used:
(Copied and pasted)
◎準優勝/finish second Sasaki Osamu
▽Lands(21)
４ 吹きさらしの荒野/Windswept Heath
２ 霧深い雨林/Misty Rainforest
３ セラの聖域/Serra’s Sanctum
１ 魂の洞窟/Cavern of Souls
１ Tundra
１ Tropical Island
１ Savannah
１ カラカス/Karakas
５ 森/Forest
１ 平地/Plains
１ 島/Island
▽Creatures(5)
４ アルゴスの女魔術師/Argothian Enchantress
１ 引き裂かれし永劫、エムラクール/Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
▽Spells (35)
４ 繁茂/Wild Growth
４ 楽園の拡散/Utopia Sprawl
４ 女魔術師の存在/Enchantress’s Presence
２ 悟りの教示者/Enlightened Tutor
２ エレファント・グラス/Elephant Grass
２ エネルギー・フィールド/Energy Field
２ Helm of Obedience
２ 退去の印章/Seal of Removal
２ 安らかなる眠り/Rest in Peace
１ 沈黙のオーラ/Aura of Silence
１ 拘留の宝球/Detention Sphere
１ 真の木立ち/Sterling Grove
１ ミリーの悪知恵/Mirri’s Guile
１ 意志の力/Force of Will
１ 神聖の力線/Leyline of Sanctity
１ 崇拝の言葉/Words of Worship
１ 踏査/Exploration
１ 安全の領域/Sphere of Safety
１ 独房監禁/Solitary Confinement
１ 森の知恵/Sylvan Library
▽サイドボード/Sideboard
１ 太陽の一掃/Sunscour
１ 精神壊しの罠/Mindbreak Trap
１ 真髄の針/Pithing Needle
１ 白鳥の歌/Swan Song
１ 魔力流出/Energy Flux
３ 神聖の力線/Leyline of Sanctity
２ 龍王ドロモカ/Dragonlord Dromoka
１ クローサの掌握/Krosan Grip
１ 外科的摘出/Surgical Extraction
１ 至高の評決/Supreme Verdict
１ 無垢への回帰/Seeds of Innocence
１ 花の絨毯/Carpet of Flowers
The whole list looks really weird to me, but it's nice to see other people's, from other countries take on it. :laugh:
Played a 4 color blood moon version tonight for shits. Only got to play a few games so not much in the way of practical testing but it was pretty fun when your blood moon draws a card. It helped me get over my fear of not having emrakul as a crutch to win the game though. Might try to actually build a better version with moon. People seem pretty happy to fetch duals knowing I have no wasteland to punish them. Guess it's time to punish them
Sounds sweet. Can you post your list? I'm currently on the Black splash with 1 Taiga and 1 Blood Moon in the board, but it'd be interesting to see what a true 4C list looks like.
Nah it's similar to yours. I do have doomwake, eplague, and words of war throughout the deck too though. I'll probably come up with a more refined list and post for critiques sometime maybe Sunday