[Deck] Goblins

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Originally Posted by Asgar

I disagree with piledriver as an effective removel spell. If we have a lot of goblins, we win anyway, if not, piley is not big enaugh to kill relevant creatures. He also is pretty bad, when we're in the Control-Position (Rug,Maverick, Sometimes BGx midrange), because they can let him do a few points of dmg and attack more evely back.
Sometimes he is, but that's nothing you can rely on.

I think he is (besides Chieftain) our main dmg-dealer and is necessary because of his cost of 1-2, where chieftain is too expensive.
He gives us games against combo and wins against merfolk by its own. I wouldn't go less then 3.

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Sorry for the late reply, was out of internet.

I never argued Piley be to a good or effective removal spell :smile: In my experience, if played correctly, i found he's always getting blocked. Thus making it (in my opinion) more or less reliable "removal". Also, playing consistently Goblins every turn can make Piley a opponents nightmare (eating removal or getting blocked) So, to me, Piley does two things: attrack removal spells and getting blocked by/ killing (large) creatures.

Now I do agree with never play less than three (but that's just preference)

Has anyone been testing Legion Loyalist?

I plan to test 2 next thursday, but I'd like to know if ppl have an opinion regarding it already.

Here's the list I plan on using:

Creature (33)
3x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
4x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
3x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
2x Legion Loyalist
2x Mogg War Marshal
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper

Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial

Land (23)
3x Arid Mesa
4x Cavern of Souls
5x Mountain
3x Rishadan Port
1x Taiga
4x Wasteland
3x Wooded Foothills

i already have 2 legion loyalist , I think they might be playable in goblins, but I don't think they are what we need right now. I want to play 2-3 extra removal (tarfire) and not two legion loyalist at the moment. Aniway everyone testing the loyalist is doing a good work for all of us .

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

i already have 2 legion loyalist , I think they might be playable in goblins, but I don't think they are what we need right now. I want to play 2-3 extra removal (tarfire) and not two legion loyalist at the moment. Aniway everyone testing the loyalist is doing a good work for all of us .

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I've been goldfishing some builds with Loyalist jammed in and it just doesn't work. As a T1 play he's pathetic. To even use his ability you need to get 3 gobbos online and attacking, which means the earliest you can even use his ability is T3. And that's assuming your opponent runs no disruption on your turns 1-3. Does that seem likely in Legacy?

The only times he will be good are when he can make Piledriver trample, have your hord run past a Germ, or make an even combat favorable to you. Guess what else does all of that already? Removal. Plain old removal that can actually deal with Tarmagoyf and DRS is what you'll have to cut to jam some Loyalists in. You will be cutting useful removal for a Raging Goblin.

I've not had a chance to see play Loyalist in an actual game yet, but from my Goldfishing and list-brewing he just doesn't seem to be the Droids we are looking for.

I think Rw Gobbos w/Thalia is probably still the way to go if you want to run Gobbos at a Legacy tourney.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

.I think Rw Gobbos w/Thalia is probably still the way to go if you want to run Gobbos at a Legacy tourney.

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Out of curiosity why does no one ever consider Thorn of Amethyst?

I get that Thalia gives us a nice 2/1 first strike body, but she's also more susceptible to removal (more decks MD creature removal than artifact removal) and she's legendary. If one Thalia slows our opponents down what would 2 Thorns do? On top of not requiring a splash which should result in a more stable mana base.

I'm just trying to find people's rational as to why Thalia over Thorn.

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Originally Posted by Remy

Out of curiosity why does no one ever consider Thorn of Amethyst?

I get that Thalia gives us a nice 2/1 first strike body, but she's also more susceptible to removal (more decks MD creature removal than artifact removal) and she's legendary. If one Thalia slows our opponents down what would 2 Thorns do? On top of not requiring a splash which should result in a more stable mana base.

I'm just trying to find people's rational as to why Thalia over Thorn.

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Why would you run Thorn of Amethyst over Chalice of the Void?

(p.s. Thalia attacks and blocks as well)

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Originally Posted by magicmerl

Why would you run Thorn of Amethyst over Chalice of the Void?

(p.s. Thalia attacks and blocks as well)

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There's your answer, Remy. Chalice is a better artifact than Thorn since it can be cast T1 for 0. Thalia is a better Thorn effect than Thorn because Thalia can actually attack, and being Cheatable with Vial doesn't hurt either.

Additionally, the W splash gives you access to the single best piece of GY hate in the game, Rest in Peace.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

There's your answer, Remy. Chalice is a better artifact than Thorn since it can be cast T1 for 0. Thalia is a better Thorn effect than Thorn because Thalia can actually attack, and being Cheatable with Vial doesn't hurt either.

Additionally, the W splash gives you access to the single best piece of GY hate in the game, Rest in Peace.

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Fair enough, though I run both thorn and chalice in my mono red sideboard. And I find relic is plenty fine as GY hate.

I guess the small body is all that matters...though I imagine she wouldn't see much offense/defense action considering the average list of creatures we have to worry about.
-People don't swing with Deathrite Shaman so irrelevant
-Dark confidant I suppose I can see
-She wont do jack against Tarmo
-She can't block delver.
-Zoo's lineup is just bigger.

Not seeing the appeal of the 2/1 body. To each their own I suppose, but I think I'll be sticking with thorn + chalice over Thalia.

Thanks for explaining the rational though guys, much appreciated :smile:

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Originally Posted by Remy

I guess the small body is all that matters...though I imagine she wouldn't see much offense/defense action considering the average list of creatures we have to worry about.
-People don't swing with Deathrite Shaman so irrelevant
-Dark confidant I suppose I can see
-She wont do jack against Tarmo
-She can't block delver.
-Zoo's lineup is just bigger.

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This is true, but the very fact that she's a Creature makes her maindeckable, which let's you steal G1 combo matches.

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

This is true, but the very fact that she's a Creature makes her maindeckable, which let's you steal G1 combo matches.

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That makes a lot of sense, actually. I wouldn't MD Thorn or Chalice, but a 2/1 first-striker is always relevant.

Do you mind posting your latest Rw list please? I'd like to test it out. The MonoR build seems a bit lackluster nowadays. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by raindrainxi

That makes a lot of sense, actually. I wouldn't MD Thorn or Chalice, but a 2/1 first-striker is always relevant.

Do you mind posting your latest Rw list please? I'd like to test it out. The MonoR build seems a bit lackluster nowadays. Thanks.

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Creature (34)
4x Gempalm Incinerator
2x Goblin Chieftain
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
2x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
4x Goblin Warchief
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
3x Mogg War Marshal
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Stingscourger
1x Sparksmith
3x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben

Land (22)
3x Bloodstained Mire
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Karakas
4x Mountain
3x Plateau
4x Wasteland
3x Wooded Foothills

Artifact (4)
4x AEther Vial

Sideboard
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Rest in Peace
3x Pyrokinesis
4x Disenchant

Nice list jrw.

I personally run Taiga, Prospector, Hooligan, Piledriver, Sharpshooter over Chieftain, Smith and 3 MWM.

Why do you run Disenchant over Seal of Cleansing? Why do you run it at all?

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Originally Posted by magicmerl

Nice list jrw.

I personally run Taiga, Prospector, Hooligan, Piledriver, Sharpshooter over Chieftain, Smith and 3 MWM.

Why do you run Disenchant over Seal of Cleansing? Why do you run it at all?

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I don't actually. Those 4 SB slots are always up in the air for me. 4 Chalice, 4 RiP , 3 Pyro are the heart of the SB. The Disenchants I just pulled outta my butt because I didn't really want to think about what I actually run. There are 4 slots that are really a metagame call.

Fair enough. I run a Krosan Grip, 2 Ancient Grudge and a Jitte in those slots.

Do you think that Wastelands are needed in a Deathrite and Decay meta? I mean because of Deathrite, our Lakceys get significantly worse. Decay destroys our Vials. So we do not have many ways to cheat creatues into play. That is why we need to play more mana and often need the wasteland as a mana source. Besides that, Deathrite fixes the mana of the opponent so that a Wasteland cannot screw them. We discussed that aleready in the german forums and came to the conclusion that the Wasteland slots can perhaps be used for more basic lands or Ports or other utility lands. Ports can soft screw the opponent by tapping basic lands (perhaps a swamp to avoid the hymn of the jund players).

Its good against Combo, Rug, sometimes Esper and Random-multicolor.dec
Also it takes care of Tabernacle, Maze of Ith, glacial chasm, cloudpost, etc.
If you don't expect those decks are played often in your meta you can cut them to fix your Colored Manabase or run Sol-Lands or other good stuff. But never go below 22lands anyway!^^

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Originally Posted by jrw1985

I know Legion Loyalist made us all super exicted that Piledriver would be good again for a second, but is anyone else feeling like Piledriver is just not very playable anymore? I'm beginning to think that Goblins is much better suited for the long game these days and should just drop the Piledriver pipedream altogether. I'm going to throw together a Driverless deck for my next weekly and see if I can stall my way to a couple Ws.

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wonder if anyone who's been testing loyalist can get back here on findings. I personally feel like he doesn't deserve a slot as he's a raging goblin most of the time, but maybe someone might prove this to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Sasan

Do you think that Wastelands are needed in a Deathrite and Decay meta? I mean because of Deathrite, our Lakceys get significantly worse. Decay destroys our Vials. So we do not have many ways to cheat creatues into play. That is why we need to play more mana and often need the wasteland as a mana source. Besides that, Deathrite fixes the mana of the opponent so that a Wasteland cannot screw them. We discussed that aleready in the german forums and came to the conclusion that the Wasteland slots can perhaps be used for more basic lands or Ports or other utility lands. Ports can soft screw the opponent by tapping basic lands (perhaps a swamp to avoid the hymn of the jund players).

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I've brought this one up a few times already, making the arguments that:
-We're too mana hungry and can't afford to miss a land drop.
-BUg and many other decks just correct right through Wasteland anyway
-And, unless we find a secondary source of land hate that's superior to Rishadan Port, the land hate tactic is dead for us.

Overall I think it's most definitely a meta call. If you're meta houses BUg, UW control, storm combo and Jund, don't bother with wasteland, run a more stable manabase, or as I suggested some posts ago, try Barbarian Ring and Sol-Lands. My playtesting with them yielded very positive results.

However if you're meta is Maverick, Zoo, Elves, 12post, Aggro-loam heavy, under no circumstance should you cut those Wastelands. They're too important to blow up problem lands which those decks frequently run, and can often fetch. In terms of Zoo that's the one deck I can feasibly see us hurting their mana base, not so much by taking them off a color but by keeping kird ape's and wild nacatls in check.

EDIT: On a side note I'm still continually looking through the pool of available Goblins and have been debating using Arms-Dealer. He's kind of a watered down Siege-Gang Commander, but he's more effective at blowing up creatures (although doesn't drop fodder into play with him.) I've got another round of playtesting coming up today and am going to be trying two lists out, one more the standard goblins list (it'll be a slightly revamped version of my list a few pages back) and another which is one of those out of left field concept style decks.

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Originally Posted by Remy

EDIT: On a side note I'm still continually looking through the pool of available Goblins and have been debating using Arms-Dealer. He's kind of a watered down Siege-Gang Commander, but he's more effective at blowing up creatures (although doesn't drop fodder into play with him.) I've got another round of playtesting coming up today and am going to be trying two lists out, one more the standard goblins list (it'll be a slightly revamped version of my list a few pages back) and another which is one of those out of left field concept style decks.

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Hm.. Arms-Dealer does looks somewhat interesting; he allows us to trade stuff like Matron and MWM for bigger creatures. Maybe a 1/1 SGC-AD split would be useful. Depending on your need; you would be able to get either one of them.

Arms Dealer is terrible. If you want to have reuseable removal, then look at Wort of KikiJiki. But I don't think that they are necessary.